MJ in PA Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 If it makes the company more money, I guess it's the right business decision. But there will always be buyers like myself who are looking for more than that. If I wanted a bland Camry, I would've purchased a Camry. As long as my future income allows, I will move a bit upmarket in order to get the car I want, and with the Legacy GT no longer being my likely upgrade path, I'll end up not being a repeat Subaru customer and will move on to another manufacturer. As for the turn signals in the mirrors, it's hardly a major feature, but it's a great example of how US cars get dumbed down vs the overseas versions, and the little things do add up when weighing the competition. And as with rear seat head restraints and a host of other seemingly insignificant stuff, it does serve a real safety function. (And those types of things tend to distinguish the more sophisticated cars from the rental fleet mass market appliances, imo.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Incidentally, I almost didn't get the Legacy as I was weighing it against some other choices. I was annoyed that in 2007 I couldn't get stability control or nav without getting the GT (as if only people with turbochargers could use those things). I was on the fence about the GT, but figured I didn't need the added fuel and potential maintenance expense of the turbo. But I would have gladly paid more in the initial purchase price for all of the GT features without the premium fuel sucking engine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuzaxeman Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Has that been clearly established? In any case, it's indicative of the overall trend at Subaru, which is cost cutting and de-contenting. But the bottom line for me is the 4th gen Legacy GT really got me interested in the Subaru lineup, and seeing one always gave me that "I want one!" feeling. The current Legacy instills no such desire. so get an sti, it has those mirrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenzo Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 so get an sti, it has those mirrors. It also has about 30 STi badges (What kind of car am I driving right now... oh yeah! Look everyone! I'M DRIVING A STI!!!). Maybe Subaru will start a trade-in program; 10 badges per turn-signal mirror... (Disclosure: Owned and liked a '04 STi. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 I liked Turn Signals in the mirrors too. But you all know that already... For me it's a simple design preference. I like the older generation better. No hate. Just opinion. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old blue Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 yawn ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formattix Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I found this: http://www.singersubaru.net/reviews/2012-subaru/legacy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I found this: http://www.singersubaru.net/reviews/2012-subaru/legacy/ Looks bogus. 3.0 instead of 3.6? Spec B with the 07-08 hp ratings? 5 speed GT when not spec B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Looks like written by a beancounter with no knowledge at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted June 25, 2011 I Donated Share Posted June 25, 2011 Nah, looks like they just copied and pasted from the 2008 description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flakeyblakee Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Not right at all... Why would they go back to a 5 speed manual from the 6 speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Not right at all... Why would they go back to a 5 speed manual from the 6 speed? It's just a copy/paste hack job. I saw the same thing over and over looking for parts for the 5th gen up until very recently. Pretty dumb for a Subaru dealer to pull something like that on the car itself though. Aftermarket manufacturers kinda/sorta have an excuse, but not a proper subie dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Which points back to that they used their local beancounter to create it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacystu Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 What I am hoping for is a sport suspension option. Does the GT handle any better than the std 4 or 6? I think the whole problem with the vibration started when SOA decided to dumb down the suspension tuning vis-a-vis the Euro spec models. The '10 + models are definitely not as fun to drive as the previous generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 What I am hoping for is a sport suspension option. Does the GT handle any better than the std 4 or 6? I think the whole problem with the vibration started when SOA decided to dumb down the suspension tuning vis-a-vis the Euro spec models. The '10 + models are definitely not as fun to drive as the previous generation. Nope. You'll need to go aftermarket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Cost cutting and de-contenting where it doesn't matter. I guess a rear LSD is completely useless too. Turn-signal mirrors, 4 position heated seat buttons, these aren't essential, but nice to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I guess a rear LSD is completely useless too. It is when you have VDC replacing the anti-spin functionality of the LSD. And considering people don't buy the new Legacy because it is a good handling car for weekend track fun, losing the LSD isn't realyl a big deal. Turn-signal mirrors, 4 position heated seat buttons, these aren't essential, but nice to have. I think the big fail here is that Subaru cut them when they were standard in the outgoing model. We probably wouldn't care as much if they weren't standard on the previous generation Legacy/Outback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It is when you have VDC replacing the anti-spin functionality of the LSD. And considering people don't buy the new Legacy because it is a good handling car for weekend track fun, losing the LSD isn't realyl a big deal. I'm talking about the GT trim, which is supposed to be the "enthusiast" model. Otherwise I hightly doubt the people you mention would opt for a MT. VDC ain't shit compared to an LSD in low/no traction, go sit in the corner of shame for even uttering both in the same sentence. They should have given the LGT a torsen, not take the LSD away entirely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydtron Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 LSD can be pretty easily mimicked by VDC. The only time LSDs matter in road cars is if you're tracking it or, more commonly, you're short on north-south traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibjer Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Still waiting on more information, I start car shopping in Sept, and the LGT is a few notches down the list as it sits, hoping for improvements in tech content, and maybe minor tweaks to styling (blacked out headlight housings please?) '20 Legacy XT Touring 13 Subarus and counting: http://jmaigroup.com/subarus/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 LSD can be pretty easily mimicked by VDC. The only time LSDs matter in road cars is if you're tracking it or, more commonly, you're short on north-south traction. LSD got me out when all wheels were sitting on ice except for one of the rears. I doubt VDC would have done anything for me and because of my experiences I am dead set in either having one or not. VDC is great, but it is not a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 LSD got me out when all wheels were sitting on ice except for one of the rears. I doubt VDC would have done anything for me and because of my experiences I am dead set in either having one or not. VDC is great, but it is not a replacement. VDC would probably do a better job with dealing with one wheel having traction than an LSD would. Controlling side to side slip through VDC means that everything dealing with traction can be monitored and controlled by the computer. Using VDC also allows for the front wheels to be controlled. If one of your front wheels had been sitting on ice, you'd have been screwed. With VDC, it doesn't matter which wheel has or doesn't have traction. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I don't want to go down the neverending path of debating the different awd systems and mechanisms so I will just say I prefer a mechanical solution over an electronic one any day (although mechanical PLUS electronic is better); needless to say the STi which is Subaru's top dog as far as awd is concerned, has lsds all around. Doesn't VDC simply apply braking to the wheels that slip? Didn't we rag on Audi on here not long ago about how much better the Subaru awd is because Audi employs a similar system which fails due to overheating brakes etc etc? It's simple. They switched to VDC from LSD because it's cheaper. I found this on cars101 VDC is Vehicle Dynamics Control, Subaru's electronic stability control system with traction control. VDC is also the name of an Outback Limited model from 2001-2004. The components of the VDC system are: Direction: uses brakes to slow down wheels to reduce spin and help control vehicle direction. Skidding: yaw and steering wheel sensors use brakes to slow down spinning wheels and re-direct power to the wheel(s) with the best traction to re-gain control. Engine power: controls engine output to slow spinning by reducing spark to cylinders to cut back power and help re-gain control. So it sounds to me VDC is stellar in loss of control situations, not a dead stop in two feet of snow with ice underneath it. Open diffs are open diffs no matter how you toss it or what amount of electronics you dump over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Actually I am mistaken. They didn't switch. The LGT once had an LSD plus VDC. They simply took the LSD away. What part of that doesn't tell you "let's turn the Legacy into a Camry"? The Legacy GT for many of us was the in-between car enthusiast and comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 VDC works whether moving or from a dead stop. I can activate the VDC on my STI just by launching the car. VDC was never offered on manual LGT's in the past. It was only offered for 3 model years (2007 it was only on the navigation 5EAT LGT). VDC does use the brakes, so it can overheat the brakes in a period of over use. The upside is that the computer is able to control engine power, side to side power split on the front and the back, and fore and aft on the automatics. You can not forget that the front diff on all but the STI are open. It's just as likely that you could have a loss of traction on a front wheel just the same as a rear one. VDC is a solution for it. What you're more comfortable with vs. another technology capable of doing the same thing with a quicker reaction time and more control are two different things. It's not perfect all around, it's a better solution for controlling traction for non racing applications. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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