Kelvrick Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Paul is an bad man. He has made me very unhappy with the power in my legacy. Met up with him on Tuesday for lunch and grabbed a burger while I picked his brain a little bit before dutifully obeying all speed limits on the highway. The drive was good and the car seemed very familiar with all the controls, but better. I'm figuring all the bushings he's replaced. The exhaust also sounded very nice and blended in well with wind noise at highway speeds to where I wouldn't notice if the radio was off and I wasn't trying to see how loud it was. The kit looked very clean, definitely not a hack job. I definitely don't want to live in Seattle though. It took me a good 15-20 minutes to drive the 8 miles down back to the client's office, but that isn't Paul's fault. My Outback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 Haha, don't mean to tempt! It was great to meet you, and glad you got a chance to drive the car! Regards, Paul Hansen http://www.avoturboworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 Todays update: Drove down to Portland to drop off a whole load of parts (sea freight arrived this morning) so had some time to play with the new electronic boost controller. Not much else to do when you are on the freeway for 3 hours... When I started with the EBC I had the GAIN (duty cycle) set at 25, offset 5, and high boost at 6psi. It wasn't hitting that boost target, however, so I went up to 50 on the GAIN, which did work - but it was overboosting lightly, so set the offset up to 10. That seemed to work, but still was a bit low on the boost target (only half a psi). The GAIN normally wouldn't be that high on a standard turbo setup, but with this kit, the actuator is a very low boost model, so that calls for different parameters on the EBC (and illustrates why it's so nice to have adjustable parameters...). So right before I took off, I set the GAIN up to 60, left the offset alone, and checked it out when I finally had the open road to open it up in 5th. Well... I can confirm that the motor isn't going to grenade if you run 7.5psi. Even if it's one with a touch under 200k on it! Wasn't even knocking, either. However, it's quite cool out, I won't be doing that in hot weather. Or on 91 octane. Felt great though! But not what my goal was. So I adjusted GAIN back down to 55, and that took half a psi out of the peak. Set the offset up to 15, and voila - perfect. A solid 6psi with no spiking, smooth all the way, and it comes in quicker than without. Acceleration? Well, there's a college kid out there with his blinging personalized license plate 350Z wondering how the hell he got left behind about 40 car lengths from 70 to um something something I'm-sorry-officer-what-speed-was-I-doing? something something. Is that all for now? Not even. One of the goodies I just received is the newer, smaller FMIC core. This is much smaller than the current FMIC core - but that FMIC core is also good for 600hp, something we will never see on this kit. The new core is probably only good for 400-450hp... Which is more than most people will see on this kit! Basically, while it's smaller than the "big" (massive, humongous, wow-look-at-that!) core, it's still larger than any standard fitment TMIC you can shoehorn into a Legacy. And also looks like it will fit behind the bumper beam with no modifications to the beam. Which is the main reason for this design. We've also moved the ends in a bit, so the hoses clear fog lights on Legacy models as well as the Outback. I'll be doing that early next week, and will post photos once I have them! Regards, Paul Hansen http://www.avoturboworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Could the smaller core result in some sort of saving on the kit ?? Cheaper yet effective core...cheaper yet AWESOME kit:redface: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Paul, I think I had a accident in my pants after watching the Widebody test video at Tsukuba OMFG WOW! Which Turbo is that and what BOV or is that a 50/50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 I believe that's the AVO600, and it's the same BOV that comes with the 2.5i turbo kit! http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/1210_sa_shinanome/sa_006.jpg Though our kit doesn't come with the bov filter.. Regards, Paul Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted December 18, 2010 Author Share Posted December 18, 2010 The weather was good today, and I was in the mood to get things done, so... I fitted the new FMIC core! http://www.avoturboworld.com/media/legacy_fmic/fmic_004.jpg This is a much more efficient design for this application than the original FMIC. More efficient indeed for any application that's below 450hp. It fits much better in the space available, and will allow for easier fitment on a Legacy. There is an issue, unfortunately, with the Outback (like mine). The bumper beam on Outbacks has an "extension" at the bottom which hits against the endtanks where the hoses are attached. We are looking at adjusting the brackets a bit to compensate for that, but not sure we can fit the fmic in without at least a little trimming to the bumper beam on those models. The new design addresses two points. The first one is cooling - not via the FMIC, but the cooling system of the car itself. This should take care of any overheating issues when driving in the desert, climbing passes in high temps with the a/c running. Yes, we tested that... The other is response. To be honest, the response was fairly good with the previous FMIC, but we were trying to fill up a FMIC that is overengineered for the purpose. The same core has been run at 500+whp without issues, which is an overly large amount of volume for this application. With the new FMIC fitted, response is quite a bit better. I've actually had to readjust the boost controller because the boost came in much quicker and harder at low rpm's, and was banging off the boost limiter. Even at 1500rpm there was about 1 to 1.5 psi more boost than before. http://www.avoturboworld.com/media/legacy_fmic/fmic_007.jpg Overall, I'm quite happy with this. There's absolutely no negatives to it and a lot of positives. I wouldn't be surprised if regular turbo owners would be more interested in this FMIC than our "big" unit, as most people run around 350-360whp at most. Regards, Paul Hansen http://www.avoturboworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stick3pedals Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Is this ^^ new FMIC coming with the Turbo Kit? Or is the original larger one going to be in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted December 18, 2010 Author Share Posted December 18, 2010 That's what I was testing, whether it's a better choice than the bigger fmic or not. And it is, so we will, so yes, it's going to come with the kit. We'll still offer the bigger FMIC for anybody that would prefer it - it's roughly the same cost for us to make either. Regards, Paul Hansen http://www.avoturboworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestratomaster Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 is there a very apparent difference between them in terms of performance or anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 Back to back? The smaller one is better for low-end response and gets to target boost levels quicker. Otherwise no difference at the power levels you can get out of a 2.5i motor without rebuilding it. Regards, Paul Hansen http://www.avoturboworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestratomaster Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 Thanks. That was the answer I was looking for hah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dschultz Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Will it fit with a car with air con too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 Will it fit with a car with air con too? Is there any Outbacks/Legacy models without air conditioning?? Regards, Paul Hansen http://www.avoturboworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Is there any Outbacks/Legacy models without air conditioning?? Regards, Paul Hansen www.avoturboworld.com Not 06+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubunderpar Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 If you aren't going to spring for A/C then you prob won't splurge the 3k for a turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dschultz Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I don't see the A/C compressor or the condenser coils in your photos above, hence the question. On my OBXT the compressor is right above the left intake camshaft pulley. And the condensor coil is in front of the rad, where the FMIC is in your picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 Ah, interesting. Must be something they changed between 05 and 07. I've moved the FMIC in as far as it could go, but there's still space for the condensor coils, as I imagine they go behind the center brace. The FMIC mounts to the front of the center brace. The brackets are aluminum, like the core and endtanks, which means there's a bit of "adjustment" available via rubber mallet if necessary. All the brackets are slotted to provide some adjustment as well. All in all, that's why we are going with the smaller core. It just provides more space, more air to the radiator, and positively impacts low-end response without any negatives at top end. Regards, Paul Hansen http://www.avoturboworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 Just a FYI, but never tune a boost controller to a target boost level if the turbocharger hotside is cold. And TBH, if you've not been running the car at freeway speeds for 10-15 minutes at least, it's probably cold. Because after the trip to Portland, I was running errands in the Outbeast and it wasn't quite hitting target boost levels, so I fiddled with gain to bring it up again - and then as soon as I did some longer driving on the freeway, it'd start spiking again. I mean, the 3-port boost solenoid was doing it's job in venting off the excess, but you want to set it up so that the duty cycle is just right, otherwise it isn't smooth at all as it overboosts/vents/overboosts/vents. In other words, when you are doing "road tuning", keep in mind that you better have everything fully warmed up when you are logging. Otherwise the tune will be off towards boost response and boost targets. Regards, Paul Hansen http://www.avoturboworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Paul, EBCS is better or worse than a manual for this particular application? I know EBCS is more accurate but do/will a manual BC suffer from cold turbo syndrome? Would/will this adversely effect operation until warm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Is there any Outbacks/Legacy models without air conditioning?? Regards, Paul Hansen www.avoturboworld.com Not since 1996 in the USDM. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORULZleggy Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Apex do you have some video of you going hard with this kit? Some dyno time on vid, something we can see, It looks very nice, but I got to see some one going hard on the street or something with this kit or did i miss the vids in the last 19 pages some where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 check the vid a few pages back where he's pulling unto an on-ramp/overtaking 70mph+ traffic. Pretty impressive. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Here you go Rolling start to 65ish Rolling 2nd gear start, 3rd, 4th Off ramp, on ramp. 3rd gear - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Paul, I noticed that your LCA bushing is tore in the pic on the very first page of this thread:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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