my Subaru will beat with a Buick heart!

[TSiWRX]

^ +1.

[underpowerd]

what a beautiful sight. so how smoothly did the original plan go, i.e. hurdles that came up, etc. -- i ask, because aside from the obvious height trifle, it looks like it practically belongs there. if it's as smooth a transition as it appears, you might be... well... my favorite person ever

[frank_ster]

well that was just a trial fit .. i'm stuck in paris for the day .. ( go see sights ??? nah ) the project will continue august 12th'' i am drawing up a motor adapter plate.. the rest is pretty simple fab headers and the accesory mounts and dun ..

[LRegvall]

Ambitious undertaking. Very cool. By way of comparison, attached is a pic of a Porsche 912 with a small block Chevy. The guy who did it said his research showed that the Chevy motor was actually lighter than the Porsche boxer 6 that he was going to put in there. He also said it didn't suffer from tail heavy oversteer. He raced the car for a while.

[frank_ster]

what like this one ? hahah

 

my boss went down to california to buy it .. left deposit then the guy "broke the tranny " and decided to keep it ..

[TeamDestruction]

This thread is awesome! I want to see how this develops.

[Stock_Sucks]

my lord.... a little retrogressive me thinks. cool project just wish it wasn't an LGT.

 

I hate pushrods. antiquated technology......

I cant help but think of the millions of dollars of R&D that went into the very capable, smooth, powerfull, and light H4, only to be replaced by a far inferior engine in all technical aspects. I hope that money, convenience, and desire to be different are the reasons for this swap.

 

But like I said cool swap. Torque + traction = quick car

 

sorrry for the rant

[ece_tim]

I hate pushrods. antiquated technology......

I cant help but think of the millions of dollars of R&D that went into the very capable, smooth, powerfull, and light H4, only to be replaced by a far inferior engine in all technical aspects. I hope that money, convenience, and desire to be different are the reasons for this swap.

Yeah, because pushrods are SOOOO antique and worthless. I mean damn, it's not like OHV engines can be made to be reliable, compact, light, fuel efficient and with high power output. Whereas the "capable, smooth, powerfull[sic], and light H4" does not flow well, has a limited range of torque output (sorry, 3500-4500 RPM is NOT a good power band), gets poor fuel economy relative to other motors in the same class, is far from smooth, is not especially light and has more reliability issues than competitor I4's and OHV 6 & 8 cylinder motors.

 

Sorry kid, you need to expand your horizons. Subaru's H4 is far from a perfect engine and Subaru's engineering needs to cross some T's and dot some I's as a whole.

 

P.S. OHV vs OHC. Compact packaging FTW

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88241&stc=1&d=1280721738

Edited August 2, 2010 by ece_tim

[coSTIgan-GT]

I'm very interested to see how you mate the v6 to the Subaru tranny and how the starter, flywheel, and clutch will work. The v6 uses the same bolt pattern as a SBC, right? How much room will you have in front of the engine with all accessories installed? Is a LS1 possible with the stock trans? I have been seriously contemplating this and have the mechanical and electrical capabilities to make it happen. I know it would be tight, possibly having to remove the front bumper beam and modify the radiator support to move the radiator and condensor forward as much as possible. If I can fit it under the hood and keep the awd, it will happen as soon as I find a beater car.

[theGeneral]

I can't even tell what is going on in those photos they are so dark.

 

But I for one would not want to put an engine other than a Subie power plant in my Leggy. One of the great things about Subarus is the low center of gravity of the engine.

 

Just my opinion.

[LRegvall]

what like this one ? hahah

 

my boss went down to california to buy it .. left deposit then the guy "broke the tranny " and decided to keep it ..

 

This looks like a clean and tidy installation. How was it that the Cobra got started?

[SSpeed]

Whoa... it is real.... either that are or you extremely bored and just hung a Buick engine in an empty LGT engine bay for fun...

[frank_ster]

I'm very interested to see how you mate the v6 to the Subaru tranny and how the starter, flywheel, and clutch will work. The v6 uses the same bolt pattern as a SBC, right? How much room will you have in front of the engine with all accessories installed? Is a LS1 possible with the stock trans? I have been seriously contemplating this and have the mechanical and electrical capabilities to make it happen. I know it would be tight, possibly having to remove the front bumper beam and modify the radiator support to move the radiator and condensor forward as much as possible. If I can fit it under the hood and keep the awd, it will happen as soon as I find a beater car.

 

# 1 its automatic .. so clutch not part of this .. the fly wheel will me a 3.8 midified flywheel .. the starter is already on the bell housing and it turns directly on the torque converter .. so that is no issue ..

 

bolting up its not a smallblock bellhousing its gm's Metric pattern .. i'm boing to make a simple 7/8" thick aluminum plate that has both bolt patterns water jet cut in to them .. and jsut bolt it up .. some places may requre counter sunk bolts but thats easy ..

 

ls1 ? BORRING ! for me .. i have a 600 hp small block camaro and i'm pretty damm close to pulling that and puttin in a 3.8 turbo that is faster cheaper and quieter!

 

this being a v 6 its about the same length as a h6 so it fits pretty good. the accesorys will bolt up under the engine.

 

as for low center of gravity .. i bet you would never know the diffrence .. expecially after changing the rear sway bar.

[what]

I am not a Subaru loyalist, but it is rather offending me more seeing a GM engine in a Subaru, then to see a GM engine in a Ford. This I would say is a downgrade.

 

If you said it was the Turbo'd engine from the GN then I probably wouldnt be offended. Just neutral, maybe it is and I missed that.

[B-BGTLimited]

So next week i will begin swaping in a 1987 buick 3.8L v6 in to my 05 legacy gt.

 

I thought long and hard about this. Reasons being cost to build 600 hp subaru engine a lot ! at least 6 grand.

 

specs of the 3.8 buick engine

 

230 ft lbs tq at 1900 rpm no boost

550 ft lbs tq 3800 rpm @19 lbs boost

3.5" stroke

3.8" bore

cost of parts motor 200$

crank shaft and connecting in stock form good for 750 hp

cost of race roller cam shaft 250$

450$ for set of weisco pistons

200$ for set of cometic head gaskets

 

Installation : the stock dbw throttle body from the legacy will be used,

motor plate will be fabricated, and then mated to the 5eat with rwd/4wd conversion and automation direct plc will be used for full manual shifting.

Mega squirt fuel management.

 

12 36# lb/hr injectors and factory buick ignition system. Fed by holset hx 35w turbo.

 

First post... That would be the Buick GN Motor.

 

I'm somewhat of a GM loyalist...

 

DO IT! lmao!

 

Good planning/progress so far.

 

Make sure to double check the Cometic Head Gaskets... The custom run they did for our 3100/3400/3500 V6 Was all wrong. They used the newer 3900 VVT as the template and they haven't fixed the issue yet or started making the proper ones... I had scratch that install and go back to GM graphite ones when I re-built my 60* v6 this winter.

Edited August 2, 2010 by B-BGTLimited

[frank_ster]

there cometic ones that i have resed 4 times already .. and gonna reuse them again !

[wpgspecb]

wow that thing is going to be a nightmare for wiring....

[frank_ster]

wow that thing is going to be a nightmare for wiring....

 

 

how so ?

[frank_ster]

my lord.... a little retrogressive me thinks. cool project just wish it wasn't an LGT.

 

I hate pushrods. antiquated technology......

I cant help but think of the millions of dollars of R&D that went into the very capable, smooth, powerfull, and light H4, only to be replaced by a far inferior engine in all technical aspects. I hope that money, convenience, and desire to be different are the reasons for this swap.

 

But like I said cool swap. Torque + traction = quick car

 

sorrry for the rant

 

push rods are the shit ! fyi 3800 v6 engies get 36 mpg!

the idea of ohc and dohc is to reduce reciprocal mass (ie things going back and foth are lost energy ) but the few ounces of reciprocal mass is replaced by lbs of rotational mass ! and bearings and belts and sprokets and tentioners and and and ! ohc makes a free reving engine.. but. a luged engine has better gasmillege rev for acceleration and grunt for cruise. push rod engine can turn with less friction expecially at low rpm..

reason for swap .. i want a torq ie car .. one that i can out accelerate pretty much everything shifting at 3000 rpm

[LRegvall]

See the attached link http://www.flyinmiata.com/V8/ for inspiration and amazement. Who would have thunk it, but once you have, props to you for taking it on. The 3.8 Buick V6 has had a reputation as one of the best motors ever out of Detroit - OHC or pushrod. Good luck...

[JoeFromPA]

I don't get the Subaru motor nostalgia. Subaru is not some amazing motor company. They're decent, don't get me wrong, but their motors are not legendary for:

 

1. Holding together, stock, under lots of added power (i.e. Supra)

2. Fuel Economy for power output (i.e. LS series)

3. Smoothness (i.e. BMW I-6)

4. Technological Brilliance

etc.

 

 

When I go over to Porsche forums and there is talk about how their 1997+ 2.5 liter engine is known for having some issues, and someone suggests swapping in a Subaru 2.5 liter turbo, people freak out. Ok, fine, those people are brand cachetists or adore the flat six...

 

But to knock this guy for wanting to swap in a smooth, proven, high powered engine? I don't get it.

 

Good luck to you Frankster. That's some bad-ass magic you are doing.

[05LGTLtd]

As far as OHV goes, I guess most folks on this thread are not old enough to know that Subaru literally built their reputation for reliability on the OHV EA series. OHV with a direct gear camshaft, No belt or chain. not powerhouse by any means but one of the most dependable engines of its day. They are still used today by kit plane builders if that gives you an idea how reliable they are.

 

When they did go to overhead cams they were able to close a bit of the power gap with the competition, but reliability suffered.

 

enough OT

[coSTIgan-GT]

Could you measure the distance between the bellhousing and the radiator support? Didn't realize you are using an auto. I was thinking about this today, and figured I would use the subaru flywheel and machine a crankshaft hub and adapter plate. Looking at the engine bay, I think it would be very tight, but maybe possible if I was to use accessories from an 5.3 Impala SS.

[frank_ster]

Could you measure the distance between the bellhousing and the radiator support? Didn't realize you are using an auto. I was thinking about this today, and figured I would use the subaru flywheel and machine a crankshaft hub and adapter plate. Looking at the engine bay, I think it would be very tight, but maybe possible if I was to use accessories from an 5.3 Impala SS.

 

its not much ! i have about an inch from the front damper .. to rad support .. on this v6 ! witch is about 4" shorter than a small block. a v8 and awd .. would be a very difficult thing to do .. would have to do a split rad.. and so on. the accesorys i am placing under the "V" since this area is completely open .. and plent easy to use the stock ac compressor altenator and p/s pump.

[Rick]

Frank_ster, how do you expect the 5eat to hold up? It doesn't hold up well to stage 3 subaru power, how long do you think it will last with the GN turbo setup? I think it's a cool project, I'm looking forward to more progress!