Guest Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 When you people, including you IWSS, finally realize that making this car AWD will mean crappy handling and more weight You really want that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I was excited. When I thought that Toyota would get the RWD version, and Subaru would get the AWD version, and that both might actually be a livable every-day size. Since that has apparently likely changed... so has my opinion, and based on the autoblog poll results, it isn't just me who's opinion has changed. I guess I missed that part, but I remember originally when it was announced that it was going to be RWD, sold in Japan as Toyota, and in the US as Subaru. There wasn't any mention of AWD, just simply a port of the RWD Toyota. People were happy. Those were simpler times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 When you people, including you IWSS, finally realize that making this car AWD will mean crappy handling and more weight You really want that? It depends on the role that each of us is expecting to fill. I am going to use my situation because I know my situation... but I think the over-arching themes are relevant to the larger market, at least somewhat. If you want a coupe alternative to a Miata... then what you say makes a lot of sense, and I don't, and haven't disagreed with that. I already have a Miata, but I really want a new car that will update and succeed my old SVX. The market already has Mazda, It doesn't already have a Subaru coupe, and hasn't for 10 model years or more. Many different companies could build a RWD light-weight coupe. In essence Porsche and Lotus already do with Cayman and Exige, and are even available used, and mid-engined is better for that purpose, anyway. Frankly, if I were looking at a Miata coupe with a front-mid engine, I would actually prefer aft-mid engine, if purity is what we are going for. I would love it if TOYOTA would revive the SW20 MR2 with this new Subaru engine, and make it a mid-engined runabout-2, which is exactly what MR2 was. But I would still want a new AWD GT from Subaru. Audi A5 without any options is near the top of what I can afford, and I am not sure if I am huge on VW/Audi's reliability record. (I still do drool a bit over the Audi R8, though... V8, AWD, and mid-engined layout, and jet-fighter looks... hard not to.) With options that I might like, especially a naturally aspirated 6-cylinder engine with a manual gearbox option... would probably push the Audi above my price range. Where a Subaru, would likely top-out on options, where Audi just gets started with a base model. Other than Audi and Infiniti, being $$$$$, and the potential for Subaru... there aren't a whole lot of companies who could pull off a roughly 25-35k price range AWD coupe. 33-3400lbs doesn't seem like an unacceptable weight, to me. It isn't feather weight, granted... but I know what it is like to drive a car that small, and it isn't long-distance comfortable, or a welcome thought to deal with commuting in every day. It is great for my 5'9" lovely wife. Not so much for my 6'2" frame, and it doesn't accommodate errands all that well. That is why our sports car is not our ONLY car, and couldn't be. But a 33-3400lb car isn't a 2-ton+ Dodge Challenger, Chevy Camaro, or CTS, or G8 GT, either. Even the A5 and G37 are ~3800lbs, and not lithe cars the size of the impreza or BL Legacy. Front-engine isn't ideal, but AWD is worth the trade-off, and Subaru does it better than Audi does. With bilsteins and STI suspension tuning, it is still pretty darn good, even if it isn't sublimely pure like a sports car would be. But the AWD liveable car would be a 4-season driver, through winters like this last record-setting one. Our Miata sat in the garage and didn't move for 3 months, while our two Subarus handled the winter driving, and handled it WELL. The Miata doesn't need to be replaced. The Legacy doesn't really either. The SVX is a great car, and I really enjoy it, other than the fact that it is showing 20 years of wear and tear, and the parts are getting harder to find. I could go to Mazda and get another Miata. I could find a Lotus Exige, if I wanted that. I do wish that there were a mid-engined, RWD boxer sports car in an over-arching sense... It would be very cool. Cayman and Boxster are very cool. A less expensive option might be nice. But the front-mid sport coupe that you are describing is already slated to be the Toyota FT-86 Celica. That car is going to exist as such, and so I don't feel the strong desire to clone it again, with a Subaru badge. But there is much more a sense of real absence in the market for something to hit the bullseye of the target between the 2.5RS and SVX Subaru coupes, maybe with some whisper of the 22B STI. Subaru's bullseye is not really on Miata's back, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangendsley Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Yaaaaaaa we get to see if the suby, toyota gas pedal sticks if this car is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I'm not buying a 2WD Subaru. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 If being RWD means pushing the front wheels more to the end of the car and having the engine sit above the front axle or as much back as possible, and improve handling, I'm all for it. Ideally there should be little to no car in front of the front wheels and behind the back wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangendsley Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I love watching people drive a rwd car here in colorado. It is great to see them all over the road and they can't make it up a hill with snow and ice on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I love watching people drive a rwd car here in colorado. It is great to see them all over the road and they can't make it up a hill with snow and ice on it. It's mostly because they have shitty tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddseth Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Holy shit, IWSS, each of your posts reads more like a novel than a damn forum spot. That is why I read the first and last sentence and ignore the rest. On another note, if Subaru brings their version of this car to the US, it would be way too small to serve as my daily driver, but I will consider it as a weekend/track car. I mean, its like any other sporty coupe (370Z, Honda 2000, Miata, Z3, etc.) - you can use it for a daily driver but it is not a very easy car to live with on a daily basis. You have minimal or no rear leg room, a small trunk, terrible rear visibility, and uncomfortable nvh. Their suspensions crash and bang on city streets, the heavy steering and clutch are no fun in traffic, and you can't take your work buddies to lunch. But when the weekend hits, all of those things that make the car uncomfortable for the daily grind are what make the car shine. This RWD coupe is not intended as a daily driver. It is a lightweight, nimble weekend car that you can take to the track. If they wanted a gran tourismo, they would have built a coupe off of the legacy platform instead of developing a new one. Quit complaining about this - Subaru was able to develop a sports car at another company's expense to expand its lineup and cover another portion of the market. They need an exciting eye catcher that brings buyers into the dealership so that they will buy Foresters and Legacies for their families. This is like the nouveau halo car - it will get more attention than your regular practical car but unlike the $40K+ Supra or $100K NSX, it is affordable. And, at this price, you can fit one next to your old Legacy in your driveway without being an oil baron, banker, or attourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Is this a confirmed 2 seater or will it be a 2x2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Is this a confirmed 2 seater or will it be a 2x2? I believe the toyota concept is a very tightly compact 2+2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dga Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 So finally someone is building a new version of Nissan's Silvia. Whether that someone be Subaru, or Toyota, I don't care, put a turbo in that bad boy, make it light, RWD and sign me up for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanger Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 i'm sooo trading in my Legacy for this car... http://toyobaru.net/forums/f26/toyota-planning-create-gs-performance-division-205/ ○ ○ ○ Instagram: itshangertime :spin: ○ ○ ○ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanger Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 here's some renderings of the Subaru version http://toyobaru.net/forums/f26/any-subaru-086a-pics-124/ http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2009/11/report-subarus-ft-86-sports-car-to-be-bigger-heavier-and-more-powerful.html ○ ○ ○ Instagram: itshangertime :spin: ○ ○ ○ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanger Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Mule runs the Nürburgring http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2009/10/video-toyobaru-runs-the-nurburgring.html ○ ○ ○ Instagram: itshangertime :spin: ○ ○ ○ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boymk123 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 After 10 more years, our current AWD equipped Subaru will become $500,000 classic cars Toyota wanted to make the legendary AE86 re-born so they just borrowed the famous Subaru EJ engine... AE86 = RWD watch initial-D, duh We all should be proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Those are uninformed speculation at best. Not that there is anything else to show for the subaru half of this project... But don't be surprised if the Subaru doesn't look like those illustrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightspeed98 Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 got this from the wikipedia page. apparently updated stating the toyota version will be the new scion tc and the subaru WILL have the option to AWD. Toyota-Subaru coupe On April 10, 2008, Toyota approximately doubled its stake in FHI to 16.5%,[1] and announced that Toyota and Subaru are working on a 2-door coupe together, to be released around 2011.[28] The purchase was made legal on June 27, 2008. According to an article posted by Autoblog on May 28, 2008, the coupe that Toyota and Subaru are working on together will be sold in Japan only as a Toyota, and internationally as a Subaru.[29][30] The Subaru version is initially being branded as an Impreza coupe, with the powertrain being described as RWD with the 2.0 liter boxer engine, and optional 2.5 turbo from the WRX STi and AWD.[31] Spy photos of a prototype testing mule were taken in the UK, heavily disguised using 4th generation Legacy bodywork on a shortened frame.[32] It has been suggested that the Toyota version could be a revival of the Toyota Levin/Trueno. According to an article posted by Carscoop.com, the Toyota coupe will be sold as the next generation Scion tC, to be introduced in 2011.[33] An article posted December 22, 2008 on Autoblog stated that the Toyota-Subaru coupe has been delayed until 2012.[34] According to an article posted by Autoblog February 18, 2009, the delay in production, according to Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda, is due to incorporating Toyota D-4S direct injection technology to the Subaru boxer engine. The current code name for the Toyota/Subaru project is "086A", a reference to the Toyota Levin & Trueno.[35] Due to the recession of 2008, development of the coupe has been placed on hold, according to the Detroit Free Press article posted February 26, 2009.[36] An article posted by 4WheelsNews.com stated that a French site L'Automobile Magazine quoted Thierry Dombreval, VP of Sales and Marketing for Toyota France said that the Toyota-Subaru coupe was due to be released in 2010, with the Toyota version being called the Toyota Celica.[37] An article posted by Autoblog on July 8, 2009 stated that the coupe is expected to be introduced at the 2010 Tokyo Auto show.[38] Autoblog released concept photos of the Toyota FT-86 Concept car on October 6, 2009, stating that a 2.0 liter boxer engine is being used. It is due to be unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show in November 2009.[39] On October 9, 2009, the British car magazine Car released an article showing the same images that Autoblog used on their October 6 article, claiming that the FT-86 was the next Toyota Celica, also mentioning that the engine was a Subaru 2.0 and that the platform of the FT-86 was based on the Subaru Legacy.[40] [edit] FT-86 Concept Main article: FT-86 Concept The Toyota FT-86 Concept is a concept car manufactured jointly by Toyota and Subaru. It was revealed on October 6, 2009.[41] All that is known about the car so far is that it will be a Light Front engine Rear drive 4 passenger coupe, with a new 2 liter Subaru Boxer engine, which uses Toyota's new Dual Fuel Injection system dubbed "D-4S" from Fuji Heavy Industries.[42] The FT-86 rides on a 101.2-inch wheelbase, with length, width, and height measuring 163.8, 69.3, and 49.6 inches, respectively. A base price in the USD $20,000 range is expected when the car hits the market in late 2011.[43] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Did they cite their reference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightspeed98 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 None whatso-freaking-ever other than the hyperlinks. I don't know if subaru should go rwd though. I understand the weight issue and that it may bite into wrx sales, but I dunno.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boymk123 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Clink link below http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/13/report-subaru-version-of-ft86-toyobaru-will-not-get-all-wheel/ calm down ppl, toyota just borrowed the subaru's engine, they can't even make their own now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightspeed98 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 here's the thing, toyota already makes cars at a subaru plant.... how plausible is it to build whatever configuration toyota/subaru chooses. (except neither makes rwd mainstream...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpgspecb Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 So finally someone is building a new version of Nissan's Silvia. Whether that someone be Subaru, or Toyota, I don't care, put a turbo in that bad boy, make it light, RWD and sign me up for one. genisis 2.0t ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrational Exuberance Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 calm down ppl, toyota just borrowed the subaru's engine, they can't even make their own now imagine what will happen when you pair the legendary power and reliability of the subaru boxer engine with gas pedals of a toyota. epic crashes when the accelerator locks up "i like my women the way i like terrorists... ...screaming gods name and ready to explode." http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5479/troy3nu5.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 I'll consider a RWD Subaru when they do one of two things: They build a car that looks as good as a Z32 300ZX or G35 Coupe, and that tours as easily as an SVX, with a liftback hatch, with H4T or H6 power, and manual or dual-clutch automated gearbox options. OR They build a mid-engined, RWD car, like an affordable japanese Cayman with Turbo 4 or H6, to re-capture the coupe market that the SW20 MR2 had. But, I would rather they just build me a new, good SVX with AWD, to under-cut Audi A5 at Mustang/Genesis prices, since AWD is their trade-mark, and it looks like Toyota will handle the RWD Front-mid chassis duties, and Subaru doesn't NEED to be redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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