New Subaru variant of Subyota Coupe will not get AWD

[IwannaSportSedan]

You can think that if you want.

 

But if I were speaking to you audibly, you'd be able to tell that I am not whining, but frankly disappointed, and a bit angry.

 

If Subaru won't build an AWD sport/GT coupe under 40K, who exactly will?

 

If Subaru won't build an AWD sport wagon under 40k, who exactly will?

 

Where you whining when you asked a variation of that second question?

 

Unclemat vs IWSS

 

And here, B4, you can see how people can disagree without being disagreeable. I don't agree with Unclemat on this one, but we don't disparage each other's views, and we don't eviscerate each other. We try to elucidate our points, and convince each other... ultimately we may not succeed, but we've had a good discussion, and each get a view of what the other is thinking, and why.

 

That isn't ad-hominem attacking.

 

Nor is it whining, though. Using one's own particular circumstance as a justification for a wider assertion isn't whining. Others may share the same circumstance, and that is a logical possibility, but I only can speak for myself, and I tend to only buy what cars serve my needs best, so ultimately my circumstance informs my justification anyway.

[LieutenantDan]

I think a big part of this is that car companies are going on what sells well, and what has sold well. Not much time and effort is put in to what will sell well. Maybe it's the complete opposite. It just seems like with so much variety you can strike a nice balance. Subaru seems to be the perfect marriage of economy, a fun driving experience, and versatility. For them to move away from any one of those can hurt their image in the eyes of fanatics. But until they hear the massed voices that cry out on these forums, we will just have to put up with what they put out.

[Guest]

You can think that if you want.

 

But if I were speaking to you audibly, you'd be able to tell that I am not whining, but frankly disappointed, and a bit angry.

 

Fair enough...

 

If Subaru won't build an AWD sport/GT coupe under 40K, who exactly will?

Audi already does. Base A5 quattro with 6MT and 2.0 turbo has MSRP of $36k. So sharp looking car and I hear newer Audis actually handle decent, for sure more than good enough for "GT AWD coupe".

 

If Subaru won't build an AWD sport wagon under 40k, who exactly will?

 

Where you whining when you asked a variation of that second question?

Audi does, sadly not with MT in the U.S. market. Base A4 Avant is ~$35k MSRP.

 

EDIT: Also, BMW 328xi w/6MT is ~$37k MSRP. Bit small, and overpriced, but is there.

 

Note I never "asked" Subaru to build something they are not making, just keep selling something they were already (at the time) building...

 

And here, B4, you can see how people can disagree without being disagreeable. I don't agree with Unclemat on this one, but we don't disparage each other's views, and we don't eviscerate each other. We try to elucidate our points, and convince each other... ultimately we may not succeed, but we've had a good discussion, and each get a view of what the other is thinking, and why.

 

That isn't ad-hominem attacking.

 

Nor is it whining, though. Using one's own particular circumstance as a justification for a wider assertion isn't whining. Others may share the same circumstance, and that is a logical possibility, but I only can speak for myself, and I tend to only buy what cars serve my needs best, so ultimately my circumstance informs my justification anyway.

Whining was perhaps wrong word. I was just disappointed you would not applaud Subaru for bringing a sporty car that should appeal to enthusiasts, even if it does not meet your needs. Ok, it's too early to applaud anything since we don't even know what Subaru version will really be, but, heck it looks promising.

 

I am not any brand fanboi (although I like Subaru due to their engineering in general and BP in particular as an incredible sportwagon package) and I am excited about all cars that aren't mobile appliances and are pleasing to the eye. The Toyobaru might be such a car. And value and reliability in the formula, and heck, I might be buying one...

[D_J]

The only thing Toyota should be collaborating with Subaru on is hybrid / ultra fuel efficient technologies. That's the one thing Toyota dominates at, and Subaru needs more help with.

[LieutenantDan]

That doesn't sound like fun. Hybrids and ULEV are crap. They aren't helping anyone or anything. As long as people can feel good about themselves without actually doing anything, everybody wins. Heavy metal batteries, petroleum based paints, plastics, rubber, etc. That's real environmentally friendly. Car companies shouldn't be working together anyway in order to preserve what little identity they each preserve. Soon everyone will be driving the same car, just with different badges on them. Excuse me while everything goes to hell

[Bbc84]

Looks like ill pass on this car if its not AWD and turbo. was really hoping subaru would pull through and make it stand out from toyota.

[Stang70Fastback]

Here's what I don't get. Most of the people who buy Subarus buy them for the AWD... soooo if this coupe isn't AWD, why would they buy this over, say, the Toyota, or the Genesis? That's what I don't get. Because let me tell you if the Genesis Coupe was AWD, I'd likely already have stolen the 3.8 bright-yellow Track-Spec car I test drove two months ago. Lol, trust me, flooring it with the traction control off, spinning the rears, getting that car sideways in first coming out of a u-turn facing the concrete median with some opposite lock was the most fun I have ever had in my entire life...

 

...but I would absolutely sacrifice that one special feature for the added benefits of AWD.

[Guest]

Here's what I don't get. Most of the people who buy Subarus buy them for the AWD... soooo if this coupe isn't AWD, why would they buy this over, say, the Toyota, or the Genesis? That's what I don't get. Because let me tell you if the Genesis Coupe was AWD, I'd likely already have stolen the 3.8 bright-yellow Track-Spec car I test drove two months ago. Lol, trust me, flooring it with the traction control off, spinning the rears, getting that car sideways in first coming out of a u-turn facing the concrete median with some opposite lock was the most fun I have ever had in my entire life...

 

...but I would absolutely sacrifice that one special feature for the added benefits of AWD.

 

Subaru's AWD is fine for general driving, heck can be even fun in performance driving, but overall Subaru's AWD is crap when it comes to handling. Car with an engine hanging in front of the front axle does not turn all that well. Most likely you could not that fun you had if the Genesis was AWD. Even AWD BMWs are considered poor handling cars compared to their RWD counterparts, and they have better chassis balance than Subarus do.

 

People buy AWD cars sold by Subaru because they need/want AWD and otherwise the package wins with competition.

 

So - people will by the RWD Subaru when they need/want RWD coupe and otherwise the pacakge wins over the competition - be it price, options, performance.

 

People are so enamored with the brand images... how about looking at a car as a machine not a label one wears

 

I, for one, would be interested in the car because it would be unique with its boxer engine I am familiar with. I don't regard Subaru turbo motors all too highly when it comes to reliability and longevity, still familiarity and technical aspects would be factors there. Ultimately it really depends on the handling and performance. If it doesn't deliever there will be always used Lotus Elise SC...

[Bbc84]

The thing is, if Subaru doesn't put AWD on the coupe, what kind of incentive will there be to choose the Subaru version over the Toyota version. Maybe the exterior, but the way Subaru been designing exteriors recently, I don't expect anything great coming out of them. I also don't think Toyota will allow Subaru to sell the coupe at bigger discount than the FT-86. So basically this is going to turn out to be a Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe situation where there is nothing much to differentiate them.

[Guest]

Easy solution. Subaru could be turbo only, Toyota N/A only.

 

Plus both cars will be manufactured by Subaru anyway, so they will be getting $$$ from each Toyota sold as well.

[Bbc84]

I have a feeling there wont be a turbo version, if there was it would probably cut into the WRX sales and maybe even STI.

 

Oh well we will just have to wait and see.

 

My wish would be AWD w/ the STI engine in it. and hope it doesnt look like the new legacy or imprezzas

[Guest]

I have a feeling there wont be a turbo version, if there was it would probably cut into the WRX sales and maybe even STI.

 

Oh well we will just have to wait and see.

 

My wish would be AWD w/ the STI engine in it. and hope it doesnt look like the new legacy or imprezzas

 

I wonder how any manufacturer can manage to sell more than one car with 4 doors. They must be cutting into sales of each other

 

RWD coupe does not seem to be a direct competion for AWD hatch/sedan.... regardless of engine.

[D_J]

That doesn't sound like fun. Hybrids and ULEV are crap. They aren't helping anyone or anything. As long as people can feel good about themselves without actually doing anything, everybody wins. Heavy metal batteries, petroleum based paints, plastics, rubber, etc. That's real environmentally friendly. Car companies shouldn't be working together anyway in order to preserve what little identity they each preserve. Soon everyone will be driving the same car, just with different badges on them. Excuse me while everything goes to hell

 

It's still in the primitive stages of development. The end goal is to get something with dramatically improved MPG. 50 MPG within only a few production years is a great start. Personally I think the Priuis is an eye sore...but it's the technology that sets Toyota apart. I agree that there is still a lot of room for improvement. I'd like to see a wagon/light truck that can get 50 MPG. Probably not going to happen any time soon.

[LieutenantDan]

Primitive? Car companies have been around forever. How much more time do they need? They just have to do what the government tells them to do. It's the government's job to slow innovation and technology being released to the public. It's my belief super high mileage cars basically exist and can be manufactured easily but then exxon, citgo, etc won't get their pockets padded. This world is run by crooks and criminals. We'll never see such a thing because someone will be losing money somewhere.

[Scooter]

^ At least you can be bitter about it!

 

Car companies build the cars that they believe people want to buy. By and large, Americans just do NOT want to buy super-high-mileage cars. They vote with their wallets, and most pass over the most economical models offered in favor of a moderate V6. Some do buy the most efficient models, but others opt for the big HP models. It's all about freedom of choice and supply and demand!

 

At least it should be: the US Government is attempting to artificially skew this process by introducing increasingly high CAFE standards on the automakers. You can argue all day as to whether the government should interfere with the free market in this manner or not. I personally like the idea of the government encouraging people to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles, but I do not like this method (CAFE) at all. Rather, I would like prefer that the US Government does as the Europeans do, which is raise the tax on gasoline. After all, history has proven that the only time that Americans CHOOSE to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles is when there is an oil crisis of some kind, which dramatically raises the price of gasoline. (And this method also allows the freedom of choice: if you want a high HP car and have the means to afford the fuel, you can still have that car - unlike where CAFE is taking us.) Of course, the oil companies do not want any additional taxes on gasoline, and they have some mighty powerful lobbies in Washington...

 

Just my opinion; I realize that few here would probably vote in favor of higher gas taxes, and that's cool.

[fishbone]

and most pass over the most economical models offered in favor of a moderate V6.

That is not true. If you look at all the average family sedans out there, the Accords, Camrys, Fusions, Altimas, the 4-cylinders far outnumber the V6 counterparts.

[IwannaSportSedan]

^ At least you can be bitter about it!

 

Car companies build the cars that they believe people want to buy. By and large, Americans just do NOT want to buy super-high-mileage cars. They vote with their wallets, and most pass over the most economical models offered in favor of a moderate V6. Some do buy the most efficient models, but others opt for the big HP models. It's all about freedom of choice and supply and demand!

 

At least it should be: the US Government is attempting to artificially skew this process by introducing increasingly high CAFE standards on the automakers. You can argue all day as to whether the government should interfere with the free market in this manner or not. I personally like the idea of the government encouraging people to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles, but I do not like this method (CAFE) at all. Rather, I would like prefer that the US Government does as the Europeans do, which is raise the tax on gasoline. After all, history has proven that the only time that Americans CHOOSE to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles is when there is an oil crisis of some kind, which dramatically raises the price of gasoline. (And this method also allows the freedom of choice: if you want a high HP car and have the means to afford the fuel, you can still have that car - unlike where CAFE is taking us.) Of course, the oil companies do not want any additional taxes on gasoline, and they have some mighty powerful lobbies in Washington...

 

Just my opinion; I realize that few here would probably vote in favor of higher gas taxes, and that's cool.

 

Higher gas taxes?

 

Along with higher monopolistic utilities bills that just jumped 14%...

 

Along with dilution of the US dollar so each dollar buys less.

 

Along with budget cuts and economic down-turn that are putting people out of work, and those who still have jobs actually losing money, not just losing raises.

 

Along with the sunset of the tax cuts

 

Along with instant increase in health care costs due to the tyranny that was signed by the insurer-in-chief this morning?

 

The people of this country are getting economically HAMMERED, and you want to make it more expensive to commute to work, and more expensive to ship or transport ANYTHING?

 

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR DAMN MIND? DO YOU REALIZE THAT IT WOULD GRIND THIS ECONOMY TO A HALT?

 

You had better take a long, hard look, and decide if the government should be your nanny or not. There is no middle ground. Either they tell you what to do, or they leave you to your freedom, there isn't a compromise to be had, you are either free, or you are not.

 

To relate this to the topic...

How many RWD Subaru toy coupes with little practicality do you think Subaru will sell, when people have less and less, and less to spend, and have to cut back to only ONE car, because they can't afford the registration taxes, the maintenance bills, the insurance coverage, plus the gas.

 

Do you think a little econobox sardine can is going to be that ONE car?

 

No, it is going to be the vehicle that fills every possible role it can, while being affordable to the shoestring budget that the people are going to be reduced to under this governmental load.

 

They just passed a multi-trillion dollar program, that starts taxing immediately, but doesn't take effect for 4 more years... and they are already TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DEBT, and are still deficit spending money that people haven't even earned yet. The government is spending money that people who aren't even BORN yet will have to work to pay off.

 

But you want more gas taxes, and think that CAFE regulations that adds costs to the auto industry, is just fine...

 

Welcome to the USSA, where the gub'ment tells you how it is.

[nemo]

[OT] IWSS needs to join the PA [/OT]

[IwannaSportSedan]

I have.

 

but why just recuse yourself to an echo chamber, and sequester the points that need to be made out in the open.

 

The people who frequent the PA already know, or are already steeped in denial.

 

The people out in the real world can still be awoken, if they haven't heard the truth by now.

 

As was said 235 years ago today, by Patrick Henry... "Give me Liberty, or Give Me DEATH!"

 

He didn't say that to a bunch of political hobbyists, he said that as loud as he could, to anyone within earshot, because it is THAT important.

[LieutenantDan]

Scooter is in CA. He's drinking his force-fed kool-aid. And loving it apparently

[Scooter]

That is not true. If you look at all the average family sedans out there, the Accords, Camrys, Fusions, Altimas, the 4-cylinders far outnumber the V6 counterparts.

 

Admittedly true, now that I think about it. However, I don't think you can really consider even those 4-cylinder models to be particularly 'economical': the 4-cyl Accord and Camry's are rated at 25 and 26mpg, respectively.

[Scooter]

Scooter is in CA. He's drinking his force-fed kool-aid. And loving it apparently

 

Yep! Life is good out here; you all oughtta relax a little bit more...

[Mad1]

A couple of years ago I was in Fredricksburg Texas on the same weekend as an old car gathering. I was gassing up at the same time as a 1970 Lancia Fulvia, a car rarely seen in the US and I spoke with the owner, 1200cc 88hp 35mpg, automobile technology has progressed very little in 40yrs. We could easily have 50mpg without our fuel watered down with low energy content ethanol and burdened with massive safety regulation.

[TrueWhiteBoy]

We could also reintroduce diesel instead of retarded hybrids too.

 

I just want this car to come out and have some good engine options. I don't care if it's only listed as a Toyota and Subaru doesn't get it to keep it's AWD image so long as it comes out, performs well, is comfortable, and cheap enough to afford.

 

Would a Subaru AWD variation be nice? Yes, no doubt.

 

It's funny, I remember so many people getting excited that they were releasing a RWD coupe and then half a year later they're up in arms about the same exact thing.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I was excited.

 

When I thought that Toyota would get the RWD version, and Subaru would get the AWD version, and that both might actually be a livable every-day size.

 

Since that has apparently likely changed... so has my opinion, and based on the autoblog poll results, it isn't just me who's opinion has changed.