Legacy STi

[IwannaSportSedan]

The Legacy STi should be a separate model, and be called just that, not Legacy GT STi. I would add to the current roster for '06: Legacy GT 3.0R, $32k, most things standard, few remaining options. in addition to the regular GT and GT limited. 3.0R would be a near-luxo grand tourer, and be pretty much identical mechanical spec to GT limited, except engine, but with Standard NAV, homelink, auto windows and moonroof, etc. (optional on other Legacies) and an ebony or grey burl wood trim, shift knob and wheel (like 3.0R outback, but grey on charcoal, cherry on taupe interiors) and more decorative wheels and trim. Kind of like an L.L.Bean edition for the Legacy. Wagon could even be called L.L. Bean Legacy STi and STi Un-Limited: $33k-$37k: stripped out or optioned up. Sedan or Wagon body styles, with Outback's fender flares, but no side cladding. STi Model only available in fewer and unique colors, Obsidian Black (non-metallic), Silver, Crystal Grey, WR Blue, or San Remo Red (non-metallic). 3.0 H6 with twin turbos. 300-350Hp. 290+ lb-ft. 6spd Manual or 5EAT. Helical gear torque-sensing center and rear differentials. More on performance below. A standard agressive body kit, called "STi Appearance Package." It would include an agressive front air dam, side skirts, rear bumper and diffuser, a small lip-style spoiler on trunk and above rear window. Silver painted headlight housings, (or black, and all others get silver). smoked reverse light in tail lights. Gold or polished silver 18" wheels, similar to WRX STi, but more of a "road wheel" than rally-equipment looking. See Legacy WR thread for pics of something like this already in existence. The Appearance package would be available for extra $ on the GT model Legacies, minus the rear diffuser bumper, and front air-dam, both unique for use with the fender flares on the STi car, and retaining a visual difference between the GT with Appearance pkg, and an actual STi branded Legacy, with the performance upgrades. The appearance package for the GT would substitute a small splitter under the GT front bumper, (already shown on a JDM car elsewhere on this forum) and rear spats to complement the side skirts. the spoilers, and wheels would also remain. Interior logo bits like STi door sills, short shift kit, and pedals would also be included. A non-Limited 2.5 GT with appearance pkg. would still be significantly cheaper than a Legacy STi Un-Limited, and still less than standard Legacy STi. Meat and Potatoes - the STi Performance Pkg: In addition to being standard equipment on the STi branded car, the perf. pkg. would also be available on the GT models, for similar reasons to the Appearance pkg. the perf pkg. would include: Bilstein Shocks/struts, STi springs, hollow core anti-roll bars. lightened/strengthened control arms, and harder bushings. Set up for higher lateral grip, but limiting harshness, like Mazda does with RX8. Not rock hard like WRX STi. Upgraded, larger, gas-slotted rotors, STi/Brembo calipers and pads. Stainless braided lines. (hyd clutch, too.) Would also include STi 18" wheels on GTs that don't already have the appearance pkg. Optional "summer" tires, for those in warm climates, or who know they will be using separate winter wheels and tires. The interior: Red, Blue, or Silver alcantara upholstery accents on charcoal cloth or leather interior (straight charcoal also available), color coded perf. leather momo steering wheel, shift knob, and brake handle with seat material color. Colors only on STi branded car, not available in packages. STi Pedals, short shifter, of course. The STi Un-Limited would have the leather/alcantara interior options, with either a DEFI BF 3 gauge cluster in place of the cubby, or optional NAV system with digital gauge display on the LCD when not in map mode. home-link, power heated seats, indicator mirrors, and on and on... like GT Limited. (The Defi BF gauges look nearly identical to the stock Legacy dash gauges, even with the startup sweep! I wonder if there is a link between them... They are in the STi japanese catalog, BTW. [url]http://www.defi-shop.com/product/bf/bf_top.html[/url]) Standard Legacy STi would be a ligher optioned, more performance focused package. It would have the Defi gauges, cloth interior (with colors, they like style, too) manual seats, no moon roof, and simple hvac controls and only 4 speaker standard stereo. Think "Club Sport," with all extra wiring for stereo, climate control, power seats, and NAV un-plugged and removed for weight savings. Possibly even a spoiler delete option to remove the spoilers an side sills. STi bumpers would have to remain with the fender flares. The Legacy's target is the Audi A4, which has the ultrasport packages for each powertrain platform, (called S-line in europe) and above that is the actual performance-increased S4, as an actual "S" branded car. STi could be similar for the Legacy, STi itself becoming a performance moniker for any Subaru street-oriented cars, being Impreza and Legacy right now. Everyone is hopping on that bandwagon, on the success of BMW ///M. Jag, Volvo, Honda have R; Porsche, Audi, Acura have S, Merc has AMG, Caddy has -V, etc. Subaru can use STi like Ford uses SVT. Parts Support AND Badged higher-performance cars. STi can, and does, mean more than just rally equipment. "WRX" stands more for "Rallying" than STi does, IMHO. STi seems to me to be an in-house tuning department, regardless of any racing series. STi probably wouldn't apply as well to Outback or Forrester cross-overs. I'm not sure if an extra performance designator would work as well in that market anyway.

[agctr]

I would have to say that everything there in the last post is pretty much on target. The STi version does have legs to get up and run, we just have to hope that Mr Fuji is in the "lets suck it and see" mood. If the hype is anything to go by, the STi should sell like Hot Cakes at the local take away in the middle of NY on a mid-winter's day.

[SUBE555]

I'm not quite so sure I agree with the full scope of that view. I think there is just WAY too much going on with your thoughts there. Too much crossing of strategy, naming, and many things. Also, I think with the brand placement of Subaru and the size of the company, I believe either a full-on performance model or a performance package, I'm not convinced both is needed or feasible. First and foremost names have to be concise: 2.5i, 2.5GT, 3.0R (the GT is only for the turbo-4 as per FHI.) I agree that if a pure performance model is to be releasedit should be named Legacy STi, and while perhaps just a performance package could be touted as Spec B Performance Package or S-Tune Performance pack, or something of the like. But like I said, for now, either one or the other. I think to keep the punches rolling essentially, they have to have something big and new for the next few years. I think a Legacy 3.0R (no other names tacked on like LL Bean) along with perhaps a performance package that would add the STi Helical front LSD, a beefed up sporting suspension with better rubber, along with a standard short-throw, and perhaps a slightly higher level of engine tuning would be an excellent addition for say $2k-3k or so and available in all trims. The reason I favor a performance package is because it allows the buyer to choose their trim level. An STi model would likely have all the goodies including power seats, leather, etc as not all enthusiasts desire. I will note though that I agree with the full-on STi model will need a turbocharged H6 to compete with the likes of the M3 and S4 nose to nose as more Audi, VW, and BMW owners actually appear to be comparing models though generally of lesser trims, I have seen some S4 owners trading in their cars for GT's! :o The performance package as noted would be a good step towards an STi though using the current engine setup with better handling and a bit more power while not completely breaking the bank, but an STi would likely have to be a full-on hardcore touring machine with the creature comforts required in the $35-40k range it would likely sit in. I would also like to note I think the Legacy 3.0R model could actually be a hotly contested model if they actually offer a stick in it and if they offered the H6 with more torque and in lower portions of the rev-range. I think it would have been a bit better of an engine if they offered more like 240hp @ 6200rpm and about 240lb-ft @ 3800rpm. The engine is just too peaky to really be that much with as it's only offered with the auto too. Hard to use that juice on the street, particularly only in OB trim. I think it would be harder to compete with a BMW for that reason alone, where it makes the power. It just doesn't make it at all the right points IMO.

[MtnSub]

First of all, when you say compete with Audi/BMW, are you talking street drivers or autoX and racing? Regarding competing with BMW X3, 325xiT, Audi A4 3.0, the new Leg GT is already doing that. Regarding competing head-to-head with S4/M3, why? I would rather have a $35K Sti that delivers 90-95% of S4/M3, with lower gas $, lower insurance $, wagon option and yes, $15k lower buy in. If Suby delivers 280-300 ft. lbs with M3 like suspension and wow seats with wow stereo, they will gain S4/M3 type status and have many more customers than will ever buy S4/M3. This approach sounds better for non-rich enthusiasts and better for Subaru, a win, win. When I see how extreme and aggressive the Leg GT advert campaign is, I gota believe that Suby already has their next two or three moves(punch) in motion. Leg Sti announce first of year for spring, performance package upgrade for all GTs etc. So, what do you think Suby’s next move will be?

[agctr]

Unsure if the boys at BMW have read the very first post inside this tread but if they have they have offered a MASSIVE counter punch with their new WORLD EATING M5 5.0 Litre V10 punching out massive numbers such as 373kw, 520Nm of TWIST and 507BHP. UM WOW. Now those are HUGE figures regardless what school you went to. ALTHOUGH, with a V10 plant, it would be hard not to expect figures like that. Once STi put the warming mits on the GT, Im more than sure that figures of 350HP will be within reach. My point ???? not bad for a 2.5 Boxer4 engine. Imagine what would could do with a V10, ouch that hurts to think.

[agctr]

Ahh the picture

[yacoub]

Looks better in black. ;) Also, be sure to stop by bmw's website and take the interactive tour of the M5. It's worth it just to learn about it and see the awesome images of it.

[agctr]

Thanks for the heads up yacoub, cant wait to see similar figures on the lighter M6 version.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I WANT THOSE SIDE MIRRORS. Maybe they'll be repro'd like the E36 M3 mirrors were. That is without a doubt the best looking bangled BMW I have seen. M6 is yet to come, though. But it still is a bangled BMW. Still quirky. Count on european cars to show the best that can be done. M5, 911 and Carrera GT, Ferrari, Lambo, Maserati, Rolls, McLaren, Lotus, Jaguar, and on and on... Have heightened the state of the art throughout automotive history. Still, I'll likely never be able to afford one of these cars. If it's technology trickles down, as it always seems to, cars like this M5 are at the top of the food chain, and hopefully those of us not in the stratosphere yet, will be benefiting from it soon. I'd almost be too paranoid to drive an M5 around, anyway.

[Xenonk]

One STi is enough for the US soils. The one thing to look for would be a support group of legacy modifiers in the USA to make the Legacy near or even about STi status. Keefe

[IwannaSportSedan]

[quote name='Xenonk']One STi is enough for the US soils. The one thing to look for would be a support group of legacy modifiers in the USA to make the Legacy near or even about STi status. Keefe[/quote] Ok, why? I don't mean to argue, but I would like to know why you say that... I am all for legacy modding. I might do that, if/when I get a legacy. Why should a Legacy STi not be built, or more likely, why should it be kept out of the USDM? The forester gets an STi model in japan, and I really think the Legacy will too, considering we have already seen pics of the prototype. Why are US buyers so "unworthy or undeserving" of a Legacy STi model, or Forester STi, for that matter? Every other manufacturer that builds a sporty sedan has a performance model, or has one in the works. Why should Subaru hold theirs back? I am getting really sick of all the high-performance hardware that doesn't make it to our shores, already. I'm personally not in the market for a WRX STi, and wouldn't buy one, even though I can really appreciate the technology in it. I don't need or want a rally car. I want a midsize sport sedan, so why should I have to go with Audi or BMW, Lexus, or Infiniti rather than getting a Subaru, if I want the Subaru, and want a little more performance than the GT offers. Modding shouldn't have to be the only option. A high-performance alternative to a 330i Sport, Volvo R, or Audi S4, at a lot less money would sell well, if marketed correctly.

[agctr]

Ahh just wanted to keep the dream alive and kicking !!!!!!!!!

[racerdave]

Adam... did you drive the 6MT car yet?

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='agctr']Ahh just wanted to keep the dream alive and kicking !!!!!!!!![/quote] Quit that! :lol:

[agctr]

Racer Dave, no not as of yet. I have been interstate for the past week with work so havent had the opportunity to get back to SoAU. I have also been waiting for SoAU to get back to me re the availability of another 3.0R Spec-B. I will keep you all posted...... Adam.... And nothing wrong with keeping the dream alive DM, it wouldnt have to be a dream if it was here and by the way, you must have been a little interested to actually go into the post to check out what was NEW :) LOL.... Thanks Guys :)

[Drift Monkey]

I AM intrested, but alas I am pretty satisfied with the GT so far...

[agctr]

Yup totally understand, tis alllllll good!

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='agctr']Yup totally understand, tis alllllll good![/quote] 8)

[KayGT]

[quote]The Legacy STi should be a separate model, and be called just that, not Legacy GT STi. [/quote] why would u say that? STI is going(hopefully) to take the legacy gt's and tune them.....therefore the legacy gt sti...just like STI took the wrx and made it the impreza wrx sti

[Mines]

but rember that the STi has a different engine than the WRX and it even has a different bolt pattern for the wheels. i also hope that a potential sti version will just be an upgrade, so us gt owners can just upgrade.

[Mono]

What's going on here? I just got back from vacation. Is there a Legacy STi coming soon or what? I think I have made it pretty clear to most of you that I want this car to come true.

[gtguy]

[quote name='Mono']What's going on here? I just got back from vacation. Is there a Legacy STi coming soon or what?[/quote] No. Kevin

[il collaudatore]

[quote name='gtguy']I don't think that it would, if you'll allow me to disagree. People are carping about the cost of the GT Limited as being too high, and assuredly, an STi Legacy would be more expensive than a Limited. Traditionally, STi upgrades involve braking and handling, with minor power upgrades. Two notable recent exceptions are the WRX STi and the Forester STi in the JDM market. But the STi is $32K, and it is definitely NOT selling all that well. It's tanking, as a matter of fact. Kevin[/quote] I'd have to agree with you on the price factor. And if the other STis are tanking in Japan, why would they sell any better in America? It would be a few years until people warm up to a "high-end" Subaru, and then that is when a B4 or a sports version should be released. And no matter how good the Legacy is or any of the other special editions, it's not the halo car for Subaru. It's the Impreza. Which is why there are so many special editions of it. By the way, what is the difference between a B4 and a STi version? I thought the B4 is more M3 like and the STi is more M3 CSL.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Nah, to really put the Subie to BMW 3 series analogy into perspective, here's how it would go... Not equating the cars, just putting them in model line order... A 2.5i would be on the level with a base 323/328i. A GT would be likened to a 330i With the sport package. An STi Legacy would be the "M3" version. An STI spec C with stripped out interior, no options and lightweight would be akin to a "CSL". BTW: a WRX is not the halo car. The WRX STi might be considered that, but the Imreza/WRX lineup is an economy car, which can be optioned up to be sporty. A halo car is the top of the line, usually above "attainable" that while more well-off people can afford it, it sells "lower"cars by brand association. WRX STi may do that to the rally-car and sport compact schene, but a properly done Legacy STi, and maybe the converse Outback done up by STi (something has to go up against the likes of the Durango R/T, etc.) could do the same thing for the "Suit and Tie" sport sedan crowd. There is more cash there, I think. Hence the viability of the Audi S4, and BMW M3.

[Mines]

To Strait all this up... The Highest level legacy in Japan is the Legacy Spec. B I dont think a spec C will ever come out for legacies, that is reserved for the more sporty impreza. An B4 means the legacy four-door, there are no performance differences.