agctr Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I know Im going to get slayed for this BUT, the SpecB is the highest Level in Japan at the moment. The specB is certainly a step up from the GT but I certainly think there is more to come. Even if this car only comes to NZ, AUS, JPN & EU, I certainly think it will happen. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LegacyGT330Ci Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 [quote name='IwannaSportSedan']Nah, to really put the Subie to BMW 3 series analogy into perspective, here's how it would go... Not equating the cars, just putting them in model line order... A 2.5i would be on the level with a base 323/328i. A GT would be likened to a 330i With the sport package. An STi Legacy would be the "M3" version. An STI spec C with stripped out interior, no options and lightweight would be akin to a "CSL". BTW: a WRX is not the halo car. The WRX STi might be considered that, but the Imreza/WRX lineup is an economy car, which can be optioned up to be sporty. A halo car is the top of the line, usually above "attainable" that while more well-off people can afford it, it sells "lower"cars by brand association. WRX STi may do that to the rally-car and sport compact schene, but a properly done Legacy STi, and maybe the converse Outback done up by STi (something has to go up against the likes of the Durango R/T, etc.) could do the same thing for the "Suit and Tie" sport sedan crowd. There is more cash there, I think. Hence the viability of the Audi S4, and BMW M3.[/quote] I agree with this whole post and agree that a Legacy STi could be a good seller, I sure would have gone for it. Just one thing though the 323/328 are no longer produced the 325 would be more like the 2.5i now. '05 Black Legacy GT Wagon 5-spd '02 Topaz/Black 330Ci 5-spd Drift Ryder's School of Rally Arts, coming to an Australia near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 A Legacy STi would not be a good seller, at present. Subaru has some more marketing work to do before people are ready for a $35K+ (what a properly-done Legacy STi would cost) Subaru. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Why the heck does BMW keeps changing it's 3-series numbers?! the STi Legacy will be in ltd numbers. It will sell when it comes out. Just like the STi WRX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 It may not be a goer at present in the States but as i stated above there are other countries that would be lining up. The STi name is well grounded in Japan, NZ, AUS and the UK and I believe that it would see like hotcakes if the EVO VIII dish hot version is anything to go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 [quote name='wunderkind']Why the heck does BMW keeps changing it's 3-series numbers?! the STi Legacy will be in ltd numbers. It will sell when it comes out. Just like the STi WRX.[/quote] The first number of a BMW is its series identifier. 3 for compact, 5 for midsize, and 7 for full size, each ascending in luxury level, and price, of course. BMW has recently added 1,2,4, and 6 series, and previously had an 8 series. The one and 2 series are the new "micro" class, 4 series will be the new Coupe to the 3 series, (new M3 might actually be "M4"), and the 6 series is already introduced as the larger coupe based on the 5 series. So basically, odd numbers are 4 door sedans or 5 door wagons, and even numbers will be coupes. X3 and X5 are SUVs based on the particular series. On cars, the second and third digits stand for the displacement in tenths of a liter. hence 325i is a three series with a 2.5 liter engine. 540i stands for a 5 series car with the 4.0 liter engine. "i" stands for fuel Injection, X for all wheel drive, and "C" for coupe, until the appropriate even number series arrives. There are more, but seldom used modifiers. The 330Ci will likely be re-badged a 430i when it gets "bangle-ed." Don't feel bad, I can barely keep up with which engine the cars have from year to year. One year the 323, 328, and 330 were all available, and it seems now that the 325 has replaced the 323 and 328, and it keeps going back and forth. Hope that clears some confusion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Very well layed out IWSS agreed with all. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 i bet it has something to do with resale values. The consumer would think a 325 is a 2.8l or vice versa. while a 323 can be passed on as a 2.3l when it's actually a 2.5l thus driving the 325 up in price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurpman Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Who thinks the leg sti will come in wagon form? On the one hand I'm afraid the leg will mirror the wrx and be sedan only because it's harder to market a wagon as a no-compromise performance vehicle. On the other hand, some of you are talking about leather, moonroof, navi, etc., so maybe it will not be marketed as such. I'm also guessing legacy wagons outsell the sedans by a wide margin, so maybe that's reason enough to offer the wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Lets get the sedan up and running first. Depending on market advice of the public (which Subaru doesnt do) will totally rely on if it happens or not. STi here in Oz sells 15 WRX's a month which isnt bad and Im sure if they had more range, they could move more in a snap. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno1453 Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 I sure hope it does come in a wagon form! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Unsure if they will take this line as I think it is hard enough to move the standard WRX Wagon let alone making it more expensive with a lot more kick. As I stated before, lets get the Sedan STi Version cranking first, then lets see what is on the menu after that. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan42025 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 [quote name='IwannaSportSedan']Nah, to really put the Subie to BMW 3 series analogy into perspective, here's how it would go... Not equating the cars, just putting them in model line order... [/quote] I pretty much agree with the lineup. However, as always it's never exact. For example, the current 2.0 and 2.5 GTs can easily keep up with the M3 under certain conditions, so the STi version should smash the M3. Also, the options available on BMW as we all know far outpace the Subs. So, to make a real comparison and make BMW-class consumers think twice about choosing a BMW over a Sub, they have to involve competitive options. That's the main porblem I see that will make Sub hesitate in doing this due to extra price hikes required, unfortunatley. Yet, Sub continue to make statements to the effect that the new Legacies/Liberties are to compete with the likes of the BMW, Audi, etc. If they are serious in doing so, then they have to do all of the above, yet maintain a respective price below theirs, which should be possible. Anyway, I'm extremenly happy with my GT - excellent value for performace and handling, reasonable but not out of this world for options and gismos - overall: very good and happy I made the choice. It will be interesting to see what will happen in the years ahead when it's time to trade in and choose a new car again. For example, there's a new 3 series in a couple of years. Wonder if they will destroy the looks like they did with the 7 series and to some extent the 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchnellerGT Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 FYI about BMW's upcoming model numbers. Contrary to rumor, there will NOT be a 4-series as the "M3" name it way too valuable for BMW to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 That may be true, but the last I heard that the 4-series would be the new name for what we know as the 3-series coupes, when the bangle redesign arrives (e90, i think.) BTW, FYI the e-number codes are engineering model numbers for BMWs, independent of the name they are marketed under, and they identify the chassis platform, without regard to the engines offered. The 3 series cars have gone from E30 (80s) to E36 (90's style) to E46 (2000-current body style) and the replacemend due out soon will be the e90, i am pretty sure. Maybe M3 will still be the name for the ///M car in that lineup. It does have a lot of market equity. Maybe M3 will become a four door, and M4 will be the coupe. Or not. I believe the Existing e46 M3 coupe will survive a while after the rest of the 3/4 series gets updated, anyway. an e90 //M car won't be out for a year at least, and is rumored to get a V8, like the current DTM race M3s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 So what you are saying if I am correct that the new road-going version of the M3 could be a V8? maybe a hot stove version of the old M5 Mill ? The power wars are great I have to admit in recent years there hasnt been much of a struggle out of the land of the rising sun. With the Gentlemans agreement of 206Kw going by the way side, Im sure that the Germans are going to get a big wake up call from our Japanese friends, thru the likes of GT-R, EVO and especially our good friends at STi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I have three words: BRING IT ON! :D Powerwars should be benefiting those of us not in the stratosphere of car buyers. I think they wanted to go with a mid-model change on the e46 M3 with the 4.4 liter v8 out of the e39 M5 and the hot version of the X5, to homoligate it for more race classes, but it just wouldn't pan out on the street car. With the Audi S4 and likely replacement of the S6, and the CLK55 and C-class AMG cars, BMW is going to want to go with a V8 in their e90 M car from the outset. The 3.2 liter I6 is a sweet motor to be sure, but even with more than 100hp/liter, it just can't continue to keep up with the competition. The Audi S4's 4.2 V8 makes 20 more horses. I'd hate to think the output of a twin-turbo FSI version of that motor. I just want STi to show up with 325-350 horsepower for 35-38k in a legacy body, with a long standard option list. Whether they do it with a turbo H4, or a turbocharged H6, is up to them. An S4 for the masses, as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Yes the 4.4 would be a good starting point IF BMW was going to go down the V8 path with the M3. Apparently with the current E46, they tried a V8 comparision with the 3.2 and fount the V8 changed the charastics of the car so much it just didnt work. That is why they stroked the 3.2 a little more to develop 252Kw (and the CSL develops more than this again). The only rear drama with the 4.4 as far as I can see it is the weight of the motor and all the internals. If BMW are able to curb this, the M3 will be lining up against the likes of the AMG 55 bunch. Im sure BMW dont want the M3 to go out to pasture yet, Im sure we may see the power struggle continue well into the future. Yes have to agree to. A lot of ppl are saying in this paricular thread that Subaru wouldnt have the market place to put up an STi Legacy/Liberty. I believe this is wrong. The old statement of "Make it and They Will Come" is certainly one that works if you look at the S-Line range of cars from AUDI. Yes they are expensive, yes not everyone can afford them, yes they are extremely powerful, actually yes to a lot of things BUT the S-Line @ AUDI sells very well every year with every new model range. If the likes of Subaru and STi want to tackle the EURO market like Mitsu with the EVO has done, well they are going to have to take STi to the world as well. The STi Legacy / Liberty will be the flagship of not only Subaru but also STi. The WRXSTi was a starting point, the STi GT is the LIFT OFF POINT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan42025 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 [quote name='IwannaSportSedan'] I just want STi to show up with 325-350 horsepower for 35-38k in a legacy body, with a long standard option list. Whether they do it with a turbo H4, or a turbocharged H6, is up to them. An S4 for the masses, as it were.[/quote] A 3.0 turbo Legacy STi with lots of options sounds very nice. I want one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 [quote name='fan42025'][quote name='IwannaSportSedan'] I just want STi to show up with 325-350 horsepower for 35-38k in a legacy body, with a long standard option list. Whether they do it with a turbo H4, or a turbocharged H6, is up to them. An S4 for the masses, as it were.[/quote] A 3.0 turbo Legacy STi with lots of options sounds very nice. I want one![/quote] I rest my case, "Build it & We Will Buy" Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan42025 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 [quote name='agctr'][quote name='fan42025'] A 3.0 turbo Legacy STi with lots of options sounds very nice. I want one![/quote] I rest my case, "Build it & We Will Buy" Adam.[/quote] I also want it with remote control height adjustable suspension :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Gish, not sure if Santa can bring that this year little Jimmy LOL, at the moment, lets just get the STi on the road. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I think we said the same things about the GT first Adam. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Exactly........ Will you be asking any info to Suby re the STi in your letter ? Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan42025 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Oh, I also would like LED lights all round and HID as standard, more adjustments on the steering wheel, and anti-collision warning system when changing lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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