MTBwrench Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 How come you are running without the rear wing? It probably adds too much horsepower MTBwrench's Stage 3 5EAT #racewagon 266awhp/255awtq @17.5psi, Tuned By Graham of Boosted Performance Everyone knows what I taste like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 ROFL! I can always count on you for sage advice. U betcha. Doing my part to make your racing experience better. If you are going to Canada for racing would you be interested in a stop on your way north or south? I can meet you just off the freeway and give you the bumper parts. tripped over them again last night. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 How come you are running without the rear wing? Good Spot! I ran one qualifying session with it on and one off. The session with it off I was .3 of second faster. So I removed it for the race. With the wing on it slowed my top speed on the back straight by 4 mph. On the front straight by 2-3 mph. However it sped up my cornering just enough to make it almost a wash. I do like the high speed braking with it on though. With some rear downforce the rear brakes are actually doing something. I've ordered a real wing from APR that should work with my wagon roof. The Megan Racing wing is fine for testing purposes, but it's too heavy. And mounted up high on the roof it adds to much to the C/G. Here's the one I ordered: http://aprperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/images/products-racing/gtc-200-adjustable-wings-drag.jpg..http://shop.aprperformance.com/image/image_proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.aprperformance.com%2Fimages%2Fnewsletter%2FGTC_200_Drag3.JPG&width=500&height=500&auth=75525e26a33217cdaa8a7e7d8e5eb635..http://shop.aprperformance.com/image/image_proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.aprperformance.com%2Fimages%2Fnewsletter%2FGTC-200_Drag2.JPG&width=500&height=500&auth=4aa7a7cb2ade66185ef1e9729017d4c2 APR Performance AS-105957 APR Adjustable Wings - Drag Series http://aprperformance.com/racing-product/gtc-200-adjustable-wings/ I also ordered the Gurney flap for it. Boxkita, I am undecided on the Mission Raceway Race, but If I go yes,. let's hook up and get that stuff outta your garage. Either going up on Friday or coming back on Tuesday. Thanks for storing it. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I just called someone out for putting a wing like that on their car. The difference is, you actually have a race car, they have an N/A 3rd gen. barf. I could suck start a snow blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I just called someone out for putting a wing like that on their car. The difference is, you actually have a race car, they have an N/A 3rd gen. barf. Yeah the rear wing doesn't add significant downforce till you get to about 80 mph. At 120 it's doing a lot. At 150 it makes a giant difference! Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 How much downforce with tailgate propped open? The chumpcar team did that with their escort at one point Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 How much downforce with tailgate propped open? The chumpcar team did that with their escort at one point I can always count on you for sage advice. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac88 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Will this be mounted to the roof rack or hatch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Will this be mounted to the roof rack or hatch? Probably right on the roof near the old one. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5th Earth Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Route it up thru thebhood with a little flap like a diesel truck. Add a whistle. You joke, but this is how the "Fabulous Flog" formula drift BRZ does it, minus the whistle and flap. Granted, they are running an 8 liter V8 so their wastegate output is more than most people's entire exhaust. Incredibly detailed article on the build here: http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3617/The-Fabulous-Flog-A-Look-Inside-Dai-Yoshiharas-Falken-Tire-Subaru-BRZ.aspx Re: the wing, I'm not a fluid mechamic, but I think the current location might have some disadvantages over a more rearward position. The wing makes a low-pressure zone underneath and behind it, which may tend to cause lift over the large expanse of roof behind it. Not enough to offset the downforce gains, but you may be losing some efficiency there. Shifting it back might reduce this, and if you can push the low pressure zone off the end of the roof, you can use it to help drive a diffuser if/when you install one. Of course aerodynamics is a black art to those of us without wind tunnels and CFD software, so I might be totally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) You joke, but this is how the "Fabulous Flog" formula drift BRZ does it, minus the whistle and flap. Granted, they are running an 8 liter V8 so their wastegate output is more than most people's entire exhaust. Incredibly detailed article on the build here: http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3617/The-Fabulous-Flog-A-Look-Inside-Dai-Yoshiharas-Falken-Tire-Subaru-BRZ.aspx Re: the wing, I'm not a fluid mechamic, but I think the current location might have some disadvantages over a more rearward position. The wing makes a low-pressure zone underneath and behind it, which may tend to cause lift over the large expanse of roof behind it. Not enough to offset the downforce gains, but you may be losing some efficiency there. Shifting it back might reduce this, and if you can push the low pressure zone off the end of the roof, you can use it to help drive a diffuser if/when you install one. Of course aerodynamics is a black art to those of us without wind tunnels and CFD software, so I might be totally wrong. That is a consideration. Another is that the further back behind the rear axle it is mounted the more lever effect you get which causes front end lift. If the wing is directly over the rear axle there is no lever effect, all the force is going down with very little lifting the front. Even better would be to have a large wing in the middle of the car that equally pushed down the front and the back at the same time. I've thought about a sliding track that would make it easier to test different locations. Even better would be a sliding track and potentiometers on each coilover that measure spring compression. Then I could make a run down the front and back straights, pit, review the potentiometers, make a quick change, and back out again for another lap. That's how F1 does it in real time with telemetry, they know exactly how much downforce is being supplied on each tire in real time so they can make adjustments in a couple of seconds in the pit. AIM makes the potentiometers I can plug into my system, but they aren't cheap! Plus I'd need a hub too. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=MC-206 Edited August 31, 2015 by Sgt.Gator Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 What you need is a brake pedal actuated air brake ala Bugatti Veyron/P1. I have also seen them on some high end hot rods. Actually very doable in theory. Just wire in a switch to some hydraulic actuators off the brake pedal lights. Battery for power is already in the boot. Best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I have an aim hub if you want to try it out. Not that the hub is the expensive part of the equation. Depending on your contacts, there is a car sized wind tunnel at Univ of Washington. I'd show up to see that. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 What you need is a brake pedal actuated air brake ala Bugatti Veyron/P1. I have also seen them on some high end hot rods. Actually very doable in theory. Just wire in a switch to some hydraulic actuators off the brake pedal lights. Battery for power is already in the boot. Best of both worlds. I'm pretty sure "active aero" is illegal in our conference. It is in most all race series. But good idea! The Oregon Tech Formula SAE autocross car has a computer controlled active aero system. It's very cool. They come up to Bend/Redmond to test it. http://www.oitracing.com/cars/ I have an aim hub if you want to try it out. Not that the hub is the expensive part of the equation. Depending on your contacts, there is a car sized wind tunnel at Univ of Washington. I'd show up to see that. If you want to sell it I'd be interested. for the potentiometers I would need the Channel Expansion Hub, and probably a CAN hub too. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 A friend just sent me this link. Scroll down to "Subaru City". https://www.reverbnation.com/thepitchtones/songs Why my Subaru race car is perfect for Bend!! Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5th Earth Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 What you need is a brake pedal actuated air brake ala Bugatti Veyron/P1. I have also seen them on some high end hot rods. Actually very doable in theory. Just wire in a switch to some hydraulic actuators off the brake pedal lights. Battery for power is already in the boot. Best of both worlds. If you're going to get that complicated, you should go the Chapparal route and attach the wing to the unsprung suspension members. That way it applies downforce directly to the wheels, bypassing the shocks and springs, and you don't have to compromise on your spring rates to get good handling at all speeds. Of course, doing this became universally illegal about 5 minutes after it was invented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusonsubie Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ^I like this guy. Hes smart. Almost too smart for our forum. 2005 Vader Wagon Material Tests on Ringland Failure Piston I should have held off and purchased a wagon instead of the spec.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Subaru City should be our family theme song. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5th Earth Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ^I like this guy. Hes smart. Almost too smart for our forum. Well, I'm mostly all theory. I like to read about strange and innovative cars, like what they had in the Can-am series and 60's-70's F1, and I used to play a lot of Live for Speed, a racing sim which will teach you a lot about suspension and differential tuning. For more generally illegal but effective aerodynamic ideas, see the Lotus 88 or the Chaparral 2J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 St class leaves alot of room for interpretation. I did tech inspection on a bunch of them this year. Owners get real crabby when you crawl underneath and point out some crazy piece of "engineering" and ask, innocently, that doesn't look like the rulebook definition. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Might as well call him the captain with those wings. What a great era in motorsports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidInSeattle Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I just watched the Petrolicious video on the Howmet TX turbine race car of the late '60s. So much more freedom to innovate back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Might as well call him the captain with those wings. What a great era in motorsports. That's awesome. some duct tape and cardboard. ..the silver bullet will be looking good Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The CanAm cars were so incredibly beautiful and innovative. There has never been another series, nor will there ever be again, a series that encompassed complete, unadulterated raw design ability and creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Had to throw one more in just for good measure. The aerodynamics were amazing for the time and the cars were unbelievably fast. VERY cool stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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