Sgt.Gator Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Look what's arrived: Stock - 5.56 LBS Kartboy - 2.36 LBS GrimmSpeed - 2.02 LBS Cobb - 1.24 LBS Perrin - 1.2 LBS OBX- 1.0 lbs and 4 5/16" diameter. Eureka, normal oil pressure readings, no goofy spiking! I am so happy to have good oil pressure readings again! Today I'll get the crank pulley on and measure for new belt. Hopefully I can find a belt locally today and Garage Test III will commence. I'm also doing a CAD design for a new pump pulley and have a local shop cnc what I want. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I'm doing the HAPPY DANCE! Not the 100% knock it out of the ball park dance, but pretty close! I installed my underdrive and obtained the correct belts. Time for garage test III. Sweetness! My oil pressures are working normally and they look fine. But most important it took a long time to get hot, with reasonably long runs at 4,000 RPM and again at 5,000 RPM. Even after a 6,000 RPM run it still didn't go over 226 degrees. YES!!!! The I realized that was with the engine sealed up and the 6,000 RPM runs could be longer, so back again: 0 to 13 minutes: Engine already hot from last test. I opened up the vents as I normally run the car, front vents teed > PCV vent> DS tank. And I stressed the engine more. With the open vents the rise in temperature happens more rapidly. That indicates to me there is air being sucked into the oil faster than with the closed vents, but it's still a lot better with the underdrive than previously. 13 to 16 minutes: I reseal the engine while it's idling. It's easy I just unscrew the line from the vents and cap it. 17:30 to 23: Even starting the next run already at 230 degrees, it still takes 6 mins of revving to 6,000 RPM to reach 250. 25 to 32 minutes: I decide to put a fan blowing on the naca duct oil cooler inlet to sort of mimic low speed air moving thru it. 33 to 43 minutes: Starting at 220 degrees I spend about 4 mins at 4,000 RPM, the oil temps climb just a little. Then 6 mins at 6,000 simulating shifting at 4,000 RPM. at 43 minutes the oil temps hit their high of 253 degrees. All together I am extremely happy with these results. I could probably hit the track and be fine for 20-30 minute sessions. But I think there is more to gain if I slow the pump down some more, so a friend of mine is creating 5.5" and 6" CAD drawings of the pump pulley which we will metal 3D print, and possibly have cut from a aluminum billet if the 3D metal print is not satisfactory. Chad on the 818R forum pointed out "It is no question anymore, it is oil aeration. You can see when the oil temp goes up, pressure goes down. Bubbles don't cool, and cause pressure drop." Not 100%, but dang close! Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Is there such a thing as an electric oil pump that would run constant speed regardless of rpm? Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Is there such a thing as an electric oil pump that would run constant speed regardless of rpm? I think you mean independent of engine RPM? Sure. I have two of them for my diff and tranny coolers. But they don't have near enough PSI or volume. No doubt you can get an electric pump with the pressure and volume, but I have never seen one used in an automotive application. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I just found this at Summit Racing. I think it will work. 6" Diameter, 5/8" drive, billet aluminum, keyway. It has a 5 groove pulley, but I can run a 4 groove belt on a 5 groove pulley. $56. http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/MCH-616-09_xl.jpg http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mch-616-09 Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Goodbarf Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 ill shut up after this comment but, at last years svra event IMS there were porches and an F1 car newer than 05. Not many regular folks get a chance to run Indy. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I hooked up a vacuum gauge. The setup: Sealed engine. I disconnected the line that runs from the engine vents to the DS Tank, attached the vacuum gauge and plugged the line. OBX Underdrive Crank Pulley. 4" dry sump pump pulley that came with the kit. 93 degree Oil: 183 degree oil, 2400 rpm: 172 degrees, 3500 RPM: 180 degrees, 5700 PM: I'm VERY pleased with these numbers. If I can stay in vacuum out on the track under a full turbo boost load I'll disconnect the line entirely from the DS Tank and leave it looped on the engine vents. The track test will be Monday. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 ill shut up after this comment but, at last years svra event IMS there were porches and an F1 car newer than 05. Not many regular folks get a chance to run Indy. Just sayin I'd love to run Indy. And Sebring, Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta. And especially the new Circuit of the Americas F1 track! Unfortunately it's a long tow. About as far east as I can afford is Miller in Salt Lake. Someday Indy...... Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I'd love to run Indy. And Sebring, Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta. And especially the new Circuit of the Americas F1 track! Unfortunately it's a long tow. About as far east as I can afford is Miller in Salt Lake. Someday Indy...... indegogo fundraising - send Gator to Indy ! Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 This will be a long update, but it has a happy ending! The 6" DS pulley did not work, at least not for a LGT. It could be made to work on a 818, the difference being the power steering pump. I won't go into details because I did more garage testing and decided I didn't need it. If anyone wants to know more I can explain, but I'd rather get straight to the solution. Sunday I changed my oil and switched to Valvoline VR1 Racing 20W50 conventional. They also make the same oil in a synthetic with blue color, but from looking at the specs the only difference I could find was the synthetic has a lower viscosity at 40 Centigrade. However I can buy the conventional for $6.30 at OReilly's and Autozone, but the synthetic is $9.60 at NAPA. Why did I switch? Well I did a search for anti foaming oils and it was the one that kept popping up. And I figured as hot as we are running a 50 weight would be better anyway, and might solve my low rpm oil pressure. When I changed the oil I replaced with 6 quarts of the VR1. I did this in case I had too much oil and it wasn't actually draining thru the baffles in the oil tank with enough force to release the air. There was still probably a quart of Mobil1 0W40 Euro Spec in the bottom of the DS Tank, lines, the oil cooler, and the engine all together. I'm going to make a dip stick so I can more accurately gauge how much oil is in the tank. So out to ORP. The setup: 4" pulley that came with the kit. OBX underdrive crank pulley. VR1 Racing 20W50 with "enhanced anti foaming". Engine is sealed up, I have a vacuum/boost gauge temporarily taped to the dash. The air temp was about 80 for the first session. The boost was set at 13psi, wastegate on my Bloch 1.5XTR with EWG. First session, warm up for 30 minutes, hit the track for 30 minutes: While actually running on the track my water temp never got over 200! And the oil never exceeded 226! Second session, these are individual laps laid over each other, the two "hottest" laps. The air is about 90, the track asphalt is 125. Boost still at 13psi. Again water temps never go over 200, the oil temp is at 226. Sweet! Last session, mid afternoon: Boost remapped to 17psi. The air is in mid 90's. The track temp is 135 degrees. This is the stress test! The two hottest oil temp laps overlaid: Yahoo!!!!! I'll take 236 degrees in these conditions!! And now for all the experts who say two scavenge stages is not enough to pull vacuum on a Subaru. Well apparently they never tried, at least not with a stock clearanced shortblock! I had 12" of vacuum some of the time, 10" most of the time, at 6K and above it would drop to 8". Sometimes I saw 15". I NEVER saw less than 8" of vacuum. Here's a screen shot from my video, it's hard to see the gauge because of the lighting, I had to catch it just as the sun was on it: That means I can remove the line that runs from the vents to the DS tank, which means if I should ever add a Spintric device I have a port on the tank ready. What I have left over on the engine is the rear cam cover vents balanced with the OEM venting tubes to the block, and a repeat of the front cam cover vents to the crankcase thru the old PCV vent in the block. HAPPY Dance! HAPPY DANCE!!!:D:D: One last note, it is very easy to crush part of the ORing on the Peterson DS tank if you take it apart and re-assemble. I did and my tank has a slow leak. I've ordered 3 rings air shipped asap so I can race this weekend at Portland International. That will be the final test. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 That's awesome news! With your dry sump system, could you pump the old oil then put in new? Or too much risk of running it dry? Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 That's awesome news! With your dry sump system, could you pump the old oil then put in new? Or too much risk of running it dry? It's possible to get all the oil out, but a lot of extra work. There is a fitting on the bottom of the dry sump tank, like a large set screw, that can be removed. But that adds one more point of possible failure, especially if you put a valve on it. Or forget to put the screw back in before dumping 8 quarts of oil in the tank, since you can't easily see it. That would be a real mess inside the passenger area. I can also attach a power drill to the front of the DS pump and run the pump manually with the engine off after loosening the belt. That would evacuate the DS system. Unless I think I have metal in the oil it's extra work. I'll just change the oil after every other weekend. At 6-7 quarts per change that often I can't afford Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 ($20/Quart) which would be the best of all worlds if it has as much anti foam as the VR1. If you look at the graphs, it took 20 minutes to get the oil warm enough to flow well. See you at The Ridge! Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I have 5 days at the ridge booked, so you should arrive early. we can have some fun on an emptier track Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Everything looks good. I'll be at Portland International Raceway this Saturday and Sunday. I hope to see one or two of you there. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shralp Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 might pop down to say hi, Gator you there all day Sat. and Sun.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 might pop down to say hi, Gator you there all day Sat. and Sun.? Yep. In fact our group 4 race is that last race on Sunday. I'll also be there Saturday for the end of day enduro, hopefully co-driving my old Acura Integra. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I'm paddocked near the concession stands, on the paved access road that goes nowhere, back in the trees and grass. The Subaru of Bend trailer is pretty visible, at least so far. PIR is packed with race cars. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Great seeing Shralp at PIR! All weekend the Dry Sump was doing doing almost perfect. I say almost because it still gets a little hotter than I would like. In the big test, the 30 minute race on Sunday, it was 88 degrees and smokey as nasty heck from the forest fires. The oil temps worked up to 240-244 and plateaued there. That's an acceptable temp in racing conditions for sure. I did notice that if I short shifted at 5500 to 6000 rpm I could drop the oil temps consistently 5 degrees in the course of one lap. That's really not much of a performance hit in speed because my dyno graph has such a wide HP/TQ curve. I can run in the 4000 to 6000 rpm range with no problem. The engine will probably last longer if I do that....I'll change the AIM lights on my dash to start indicating time to shift 500 rpm lower across the range. However that indicates (I think) that the problem is RPM related, either in the engine or in how fast the DS pump is spinning. With my underdrive crank pulley and the standard DS pump pulley I'm still spinning the pump slightly faster than crank speed and possibly causing the extra heat above 6K RPM. For those of us with the 2.5 L engine this is ok. F On the vacuum/scavenge/pressure issue, the sealed engine worked great. I never saw more than 14" of vacuum, nor any less than 2" of vacuum. And the 2" only occurs at more than 6200+ RPM, which in practical terms is only for a second or two. There was never positive crankcase pressure. Typically I'd glance at it and see 8" of vacuum, which is perfect. See for more info on vacuum:http://nutterracingengines.com/racing_oil_pumps/crankcase_vacuum_facts.html My lap times were down significantly from my qualifying laps because I changed out my tires to some newer but smaller tires. They cost me at least 4 seconds and one near accident when my rear tires slid out! The biggest concern now is my 6 speed tranny temp. My tranny cooler system slows down the heat, but by the last lap I was up to 270 degrees. My diff temp never goes over 195 degrees whether I run the pump or not, so I may remove the diff cooler and double up the tranny cooler. I also need to pressure test the tranny pump cooler and make sure it's working within spec. Next race possibly Mission Raceway in Abbotsford British Columbia, and The Ridge for sure. Edited August 25, 2015 by Sgt.Gator Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I think it's awesome that you're still keeping this thing on the racetrack. What a great car. I could suck start a snow blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Another factor on the tranny temp is the EWG dumps right next to the tranny. In a street car it's no big deal because you would never drive for 30 minutes with the EWG constantly dumping, but it's a different story on the race track. I think I will need to either recirculate the EWG back into the exhaust system somewhere downstream far enough to not be a problem, or extend the EWG pipe out to the side of the car so it's gasses don't blow on the tranny. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Tons of people route the external wastegate dump tube into the downpipe. Also quiets the car quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Tons of people route the external wastegate dump tube into the downpipe. Also quiets the car quite a bit. The sound is pretty strange! That's probably what I'll do. Racing next to the Red Bull M3 at PIR: Edited August 27, 2015 by Sgt.Gator Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Route it up thru thebhood with a little flap like a diesel truck. Add a whistle. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Route it up thru the hood with a little flap like a diesel truck. Add a whistle. ROFL! I can always count on you for sage advice. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 How come you are running without the rear wing? My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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