TRS Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 So Tokicos go with stock tophats?Yes, according to post #21 above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintinet Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Anyone trying them with Ions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 I just now finished installing the struts. There are a couple of issues. I'll post a repot in a while, but rigt now I've got to attack the brake lines.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 ARG! You're killing me!!! What's the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 OK, it's been a long day.... I just returned from a test drive. So we know what's going on here's the current mods: Stage II Kartboy shifter iON springs Cobb Sways (stock endlinks in back, AVO up front - still hits in back over big deflections) Tokico HTS struts STi tranny mount Goodrige brake lines ATE brake fluid Bobcat pads 225/40-18 Kumho SPT on 18x7.5 wheels The good news: these struts are NICE. Huge improvment over stock struts (had 43k miles, 20k of that with iONs - they were done!). Very controlled over bumps at speed. Larger bumps at low speeds are still pretty noticable, but less "slappy", feels 100% better. I'm currently 1 turn from full hard on the struts. According to the instructions, full soft is 7.5 turns from full hard. Full hard was very nice going down the local twisty road, with very predictible power on drifts, and off throttle oversteer when desired. My current setting of 1 turn back allowed a little more tire howling, but was less abrupt over typical bumps. There was a noticable difference with that one turn of adjustment. That's all I had time for today as far as fiddling. The bad news: I'm not sure Tokico actually tried these on a USDM car. The strut top in front does not have a long enough threaded section. By the time the stock top hat is installed, it is only engaging about 50% of the threads in the nut on top. See pictures for details. I also posted pics of the front and rear installed on the car. I'm going to keep a close eye on the nuts, and see if I can find narrower locking nuts to replace the ones that came with the struts. I will also contact Tokico, and let them know about the issue. I'm wondering if the JDM top hats have a narrower bearing? Anyone know? A second install issue that is not a big deal is that the front Tokicos seem to be slightly shorter than the stockers. I was able to swap in the iONs on the stock struts easily without a spring compressor. I was able to get the Tokicos/iONs together without one, but it was a PITA, and a compressor would have made things much easier. Another minor bitch: the covers for the adjusters on the strut tops are threaded brass caps but they are smooth on the outside, making it a bitch to get ahold of them to thread them on and off. Especially when leaning into the trunk... I also finally got my Goodrige lines installed. That was a PITA as well, but WOW, what a difference! Although the brakes still aren't as immediate as I would like, they're about 90% there, and no longer make you feel like you need to pump them to get any braking. They are much more solid and progressive. Highly recommended! Cliff notes: Installed Tokico HTS struts. Verdict: Some slight install issues. Also installed Goodrige brake lines, also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 The bad news: I'm not sure Tokico actually tried these on a USDM car. The strut top in front does not have a long enough threaded section. By the time the stock top hat is installed, it is only engaging about 50% of the threads in the nut on top. See pictures for details. I also posted pics of the front and rear installed on the car. I'm going to keep a close eye on the nuts, and see if I can find narrower locking nuts to replace the ones that came with the struts. I will also contact Tokico, and let them know about the issue. I'm wondering if the JDM top hats have a narrower bearing? Anyone know? These struts are designed to work with the JDM top hat, that will solve you issues. Might also work with USDM spec-B top hat. The nut will engage the whole way (although I wouldn't worry about it. 90% of the strength of the nut is in the first 3 threads. A second install issue that is not a big deal is that the front Tokicos seem to be slightly shorter than the stockers. I was able to swap in the iONs on the stock struts easily without a spring compressor. I was able to get the Tokicos/iONs together without one, but it was a PITA, and a compressor would have made things much easier. If these struts were used with the proper top hat (which have a beefier bearing BTW) it would be real easy to mount the springs. If you use the proper top hat your car will sit 5/8 too high, and then you will have to buy Bilstein specific (or JDM top hat specific) front springs from iON, and that would cost you another $250. The different top hat and springs will keep you same ride height that you have right now. Any more questions, ask away, I have learned the hard way all about the differences on our front suspension. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Second that on the JDM tophat - you'll get full threads. Check with Mach V Dan, his setup uses the USDM tophats, he can probably give you feedback on longevity. The little brass covers for the adjustability access, I just tossed 'em, hasn't caused any issues & makes adjustments easier. One thing I learned from talking to a lot of folks about Tokicos was that making constant adjustments tends to affect the valving & wears it out quicker. Not sure if there's any truth to that, but the message I took from it was find a setting I like & leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 the message I took from it was find a setting I like & leave it there. That's exactly what I plan to do. I'll likely turn it softer 'till it's too soft, then come back a turn. The instructions recommended 5 turns from hard as a starting point, but I think that may be for stock springs.... I have a feeling that where I'm at, or one turn softer will be where it stays. Overall, I have to say I'm very pleased with the combination of iONs and Tokicos so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 With the Ions I'm at 3 turns from hard, that's a comfortable stance & feels appropriately damped. More spirited driving outings & I go to 1 turn off hard. Important distinction - it's never going to feel "too soft." Changing the setting will only increase the bounce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 so what are the chances that Tokico would increase the length of the top bolt to make them work better with USDM tophats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 WTF??? Are you telling me that they are not designed to fit with the USDM top hats? If they are not (and 3 threads isn't goign to cut it), someone plesae let me know now so I can cancel my order Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 They are apparently designed to work with the JDM top hats... Take a look at the pics I posted. The shot of the nut with the caliper will give you an idea how far the threads will extend into the nut.... I'm not real happy about this, but wasn't about to swap the stockers back in at that point. I don't think they're unsafe, but I will look for either a replacement from Tokico, or a thinner nut that will fully thread. You'd think with the time it took to get these out, they could get it right. Of course we've seen this kind of crap over and over again with the Legacy. Wait, wait, wait, and parts still don't fit properly (sways, fmic, now these...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 BTW, the 'contact us' section of Tokico's website doesn't work... I'll be calling them Monday morning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 several people asked this Q specifically and were told resoundingly, YES! they work with USDM tophats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Why should we expect anything different from the rest of our vendors...?? And technically... they do work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Getting a thinner nut will not make it any safer! I still wouldn't worry about it! Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I'm a little late to this so please bear with me. 1. Are the Spec B top hats the same as the JDM ones (dimensionally, not "magically") 2. Will the JDM/Spec B top hats result in the lowering of the front suspension? If so how much? While it is true that that joint exists primarily to deal with lateral movement and to keep the strut from falling out when the suspesnion is unloaded (witness the 12 ft.lb. torque spec on the hat itself), an improper fit is half-backed for any strut, let alone a set that costs upwards of $600. It is funny, the domestic aftermarket would never stand for this kind of crap. Thanks. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I'm a little late to this so please bear with me. 1. Are the Spec B top hats the same as the JDM ones (dimensionally, not "magically") 2. Will the JDM/Spec B top hats result in the lowering of the front suspension? If so how much? While it is true that that joint exists primarily to deal with lateral movement and to keep the strut from falling out when the suspesnion is unloaded (witness the 12 ft.lb. torque spec on the hat itself), an improper fit is half-backed for any strut, let alone a set that costs upwards of $600. It is funny, the domestic aftermarket would never stand for this kind of crap. Thanks. 1. Yes. These are Bilstein specific tophats. 2. Depends on springs. Actually my car after JDM Bilstein swap rides a tiny bit higher in front. OTOH, cars with stock KYB fronts drop when matched to JDM springs. In other words, the Bilstein top hats are taller and reqiure shorter springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 1. Yes. These are Bilstein specific tophats. 2. Depends on springs. Actually my car after JDM Bilstein swap rides a tiny bit higher in front. OTOH, cars with stock KYB fronts drop when matched to JDM springs. In other words, the Bilstein top hats are taller and reqiure shorter springs. Thanks for the quick reply and the information. So with stock springs it sounds like the front would be higher then stock. Interesting. Now I need to decide what I want to do. Thanks again. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 So with stock springs it sounds like the front would be higher then stock. Yes, 5/8 inch higher in the front! Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yes, 5/8 inch higher in the front! I will finally achieve that Outback look I have been searching for Looks the easiest thing will be to get the Spec B top hats Part No. 20320AG000 This post lists all of the Spec B suspension part numbers http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22678 Should be under $100 shipped. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I will finally achieve that Outback look I have been searching for Looks the easiest thing will be to get the Spec B top hats Part No. 20320AG000 This post lists all of the Spec B suspension part numbers http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22678 Should be under $100 shipped. weak, I just want some struts with the proper height bolt at the top... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Order cancelled +1 for JSC Speed for great customer service. I will wait until this all gets sorted out. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I adjusted the struts out to 2 turns from hard. This seems to be about ideal for daily driving. Well controlled, but takes the hard edge of bumps. I'm very pleased with the performance, but disappointed in the fit. I'm going to start another thread about the fitment to make people aware without having to shovel through this thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Thanks for your updates, rodan and Boulderguy! Looks like I'm definitely going to be interested in this in the coming days when my stock struts finally wear out. Glad to hear that it pairs well with the iONs. Awaiting news on top-hat issue. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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