Koni dampers for Legacy

[Scottybue]

any chance these Koni's will be done by February? (Getting deployed)

[bosco]

^ yea. '08. bosco

[Scottybue]

f*ck that... Tokicos here I come!

[rporter]

As I asked in the other thread, it appears that the Tokicos are JDM parts? Do they go for a kings ransom like the Bilteins?

 

I have had good success with Koni inserts and Tokicos on other cars. I can't see spending around $200 apiece for "used" JDM Bidtein struts. I want new parts, and while Blsteins are good, they ain't THAT good for the insane new or used JDM price.

 

My Tein springs can sit on the shelf until I can get new struts at a reasonable price, and the Konis would be at the top of my list.

[fweasel]

The Tokicos were a JDM part, and recently brought here to the states and sold for $600-750 new. They only work with JDM tophats and currently are nolonger available from Tokico. Your options are used, or remaining stock somwhere.

[rodan]

It kills me that we're into the 3rd model year (4th worldwide) of the LGT, and no-one is making any serious efforts at making struts for this car. Even low mileage drivers should be reaching replacement time, and only factory replacements are available??

 

I'm glad I got a set of Tokicos when I did... Working out the fitment (JDM/Bilstein) was a pain, but at least I've got them...

[Guest]

It kills me that we're into the 3rd model year (4th worldwide) of the LGT, and no-one is making any serious efforts at making struts for this car. Even low mileage drivers should be reaching replacement time, and only factory replacements are available??

 

Maybe because all markets get Bilsteins in all non-basic models? Tokicos are not an upgrade for Bilsteins, and I doubt that Konis will be. Ohlins supposedly are, but for nearly $2000.

 

Only USDM gets the crapo KYBs in GT trim. Other markets get them only in 2.0/2.5 non-turbo applications (AFAIK, most if not all 3.0 NAs get Bilsteins).

 

At least Bilsteins are now available thru dealers in the U.S. because of the SpecB.

[jaspert]

Maybe because all markets get Bilsteins in all non-basic models? Tokicos are not an upgrade for Bilsteins, and I doubt that Konis will be. Ohlins supposedly are, but for nearly $2000.

 

Only USDM gets the crapo KYBs in GT trim. Other markets get them only in 2.0/2.5 non-turbo applications (AFAIK, most if not all 3.0 NAs get Bilsteins).

 

At least Bilsteins are now available thru dealers in the U.S. because of the SpecB.

 

Not quite true. Before MY07, all Australian Liberty/Legacy GT were equipped with the same soft KYB struts too. The GT was a poor cousin to the 3.0H6 Spec B in term of handling and a few other features (passenger side electrical seat, sport pedals,chrome bits) that is until MY07 started to roll out with the top of the range GT Spec B. Quite a few MY04-06 GT owners were unhappy with the soft springs and KYB combo but Subrau Australia won't consider our request to have the Bilstein as an dealeer option so many went aftermarket. Subaru Australia has rectified this now with the more extensive model line up.

[Guest]

^ thx for the info. Europe doesn't get GT at all, but I think EDM 3.0R was equipped with Bilsteins, not only 3.0 SpecB. Maybe depends on year, would have to check the parts database. See, the problem is I don't have the AUSDM part database

 

Anyway, my point was if someone was unhappy with KYBs, upgrade was available right from the dealer (even if not an option at the purchase time). Maybe not cheap, but available. Could be disincentive for aftermarket suspension manufacturers.

[rporter]

Since KYB is a vendor for struts, it also would be nice if they released an AGX strut for our cars.

[Guest]

Since KYB is a vendor for struts, it also would be nice if they released an AGX strut for our cars.

 

I am not very familiar with KYB offerings, but they have few products in JDM, Lowfers being one of them (designed for lowering springs). I believe they are pretty inexpensive even new.

[rporter]

In other performance car applications, the AGX is a very good 2-way adjustable strut. It also has advantages aover some comparable Koni struts that have only one adjustment (rebound).

 

It's pretty obvious that Bilstein is pretty heavy ito Subaru for many applications, but Bilstein would not be my first choice if there are others like Koni and Tokico available (speaking of any car here Subarus or not).

[jah64]

I agree. I tried to buy Tokiko's on two separate occasions with no luck. The supply is depleted. I am hopeful that either the Bilstein price will drop with the increase in deployment on Subaru's or if the replacement price remains high, other vendors like Koni and KYB will make a replacement for a performance strut.

 

The other issue that "we performance minded people" are running into is the fact the most of the legacy's on the road are the basic model driven by people who have little interest in putting a better suspension on their cars.

 

I have also heard that there is a small difference in geometry between the aluminum Spec B suspension and the stock GT stuff and although Bilstiens and the correct top hats work, they are not a perfect match. Will Subaru honor suspension issue warranty on a GT with Bilstiens it? I would doubt it.

 

Hey Koni!! I want struts too!

 

Andy

[rodan]

 

I have also heard that there is a small difference in geometry between the aluminum Spec B suspension and the stock GT stuff and although Bilstiens and the correct top hats work, they are not a perfect match.

 

Can anyone confirm this?

 

I know the Tokico's are not an upgrade compared to Bilsteins, but at half the cost (and still less than used Bilsteins), I'm happy with them. Although I love the car, the lack of aftermarket support has been frustrating (and expensive).

[Guest]

I have also heard that there is a small difference in geometry between the aluminum Spec B suspension and the stock GT stuff and although Bilstiens and the correct top hats work, they are not a perfect match.

Andy

 

Where did you hear that? While it's not impossible that the geometry changes, it doesn't mean that Bilsteins with their top hats are not perfect match for regular GT.

 

JDM GT have Bilsteins and steel suspension pieces. Not 100% sure, but AFAIK first JDM year of SpecB didn't have aluminum pieces, either.

[PGT]

normal GT have cast aluminum pieces too. Paul Hansen's '03 has them.

[hadvw]

It kills me that we're into the 3rd model year (4th worldwide) of the LGT, and no-one is making any serious efforts at making struts for this car. Even low mileage drivers should be reaching replacement time, and only factory replacements are available??

 

I'm glad I got a set of Tokicos when I did... Working out the fitment (JDM/Bilstein) was a pain, but at least I've got them...

 

Just curious - what do you consider "replacement time"? 20K miles? 30K?

 

I've usually heard around 40-50K.

 

HV

[Guest]

normal GT have cast aluminum pieces too. Paul Hansen's '03 has them.

 

I stand corrected. I checked JDM part databases and indeed even plain JDM GT has aluminum front control arms. Very interesting.

 

I was confused by seeing someone selling rear links from supposedly first year JDM SpecB and they were steel. Should have verified that before believing.

 

Wonder about the geometry differences. Someone would have to have the aluminum piece side to side with the steel one and measure.

 

Now, USDM GT owners can feel even more cheated...

[jah64]

Re: different geometry.. A buddy of mine (hardcore subaruist) was talking to a Subaru rep at a rallye when the specB first came out. A reasonable source but not verified for sure. The guy said the Bilsteins would work just fine, but not as well is with the aluminum arms. What's the difference? I do not know. It could also be a bunch of B.S. too.

 

unclemat, good point. but I would think that if there were no difference at all and assuming that the SpecB suspension is the gold standard "in this case". Why make the change from steel to aluminum if there is no gain? Marketing? I doubt it, tuning? that's my guess. Would I put bilsteins on my car? Absolutely!

 

"JDM GT have Bilsteins and steel suspension pieces. Not 100% sure, but AFAIK first JDM year of SpecB didn't have aluminum pieces, either." -- Perhaps the reason for Rev A Rev B Rev C. strut sets Maybe less suspension mass (Al) you can work with softer shock. (Rev C)

 

Just thinking out loudhttp://legacygt.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

Need struts - Andy

[Guest]

Re: different geometry.. A buddy of mine (hardcore subaruist) was talking to a Subaru rep at a rallye when the specB first came out. A reasonable source but not verified for sure. The guy said the Bilsteins would work just fine, but not as well is with the aluminum arms. What's the difference? I do not know. It could also be a bunch of B.S. too.

 

unclemat, good point. but I would think that if there were no difference at all and assuming that the SpecB suspension is the gold standard "in this case". Why make the change from steel to aluminum if there is no gain? Marketing? I doubt it, tuning? that's my guess. Would I put bilsteins on my car? Absolutely!

 

"JDM GT have Bilsteins and steel suspension pieces. Not 100% sure, but AFAIK first JDM year of SpecB didn't have aluminum pieces, either." -- Perhaps the reason for Rev A Rev B Rev C. strut sets Maybe less suspension mass (Al) you can work with softer shock. (Rev C)

 

Just thinking out loudhttp://legacygt.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

Need struts - Andy

 

I checked JDM parts database, and even Rev.A JDM cars (2003) have front aluminum control arms as well as rear links. Rear trailing arm has different part number than 2006 USDM SpecB, but it's hard to imagine it would be steel, if everything else is alu.

 

The revisions between Bilsteins have more to do with complaints about ride comfort and also migration from 17 inch wheels to 18 inch in JDM SpecB case.

 

As far as steel pieces being not perfect match for Bilsteins. Dunno. All I know my cars handles like a dream with Bilsteins and Pinks and alignment is perfect. Front: 6.3/5.9 deg caster, -1/-1 camber (can't get more with OEM bolts with Pinks), and 0/0 toe.

 

EDIT: one more note - the gain from alu pieces is less unsprung mass, and perhaps better bushings. Unsprung mass can be addressed by lighter wheel/tire combo.

[bosco]

i want better a suspension and have been following this but maybe missed something there seem to be multiple Rev.'s A,B,C in the Bilsteins

1. are they compatible with a lowered suspension (1") if so why?

2. i hear claims that my stock struts with lowered springs will be gone by say 30k is this true of the Bilsteins? can they be rebuilt?

3. if i run 18" wheels/tires vs 17" wheels/tires do i need a specific Rev. A,B,C?

4. which top hat for which Rev.?

5. why can't a good set of coilovers give a good ride if you used a spring rate close to stock? seems to me it would be easier to get a good ride b/c the shock is designed to work in that range/stroke vs one that isn't. ie. stock/Bilstein on lowered springs

 

thanks bosco

[rodan]

Just curious - what do you consider "replacement time"? 20K miles? 30K?

 

I've usually heard around 40-50K.

 

HV

 

I would consider most factory shocks to be on their way south at 35-40k. You don't really notice it much because of the gradual deterioration, but if you were to get in a brand new/low mileage same model car you would certainly notice the difference. We're about 2 1/2 years into the availability of the LGT in the US, and the average mileage drivers should be getting into that mileage range...

[hadvw]

I would consider most factory shocks to be on their way south at 35-40k. You don't really notice it much because of the gradual deterioration, but if you were to get in a brand new/low mileage same model car you would certainly notice the difference. We're about 2 1/2 years into the availability of the LGT in the US, and the average mileage drivers should be getting into that mileage range...

 

Makes sense. Not sure where the "dangerous" level (lurching/bouncing) is, but.. I doubt I can talk the wife into replacing the suspension next year (we're just about to hit 30K, baby on the way!). Maybe at 50K.

 

HV

[suds2250]

Maybe because all markets get Bilsteins in all non-basic models? Tokicos are not an upgrade for Bilsteins, and I doubt that Konis will be. Ohlins supposedly are, but for nearly $2000.

 

I would consider anything adjustable (i.e. Koni, Ohlins & Tokico) an upgrade over bilsteins.

[Guest]

I would consider anything adjustable (i.e. Koni, Ohlins & Tokico) an upgrade over bilsteins.

 

Adjustability is certainly nice to have, but realize that performance of dampers is not about adjustability but actual damping

 

I'd rather have good non-adjustable dampers than poor adjustable ones.

 

Non-adjustable dampers are said to be more reliable, btw.

 

There is a reason Ohlins and Bilsieins aren't cheap. You get what you pay for.