Guide to the 30,000 mile service

[mickeyd2005]

Replacing the coolant on the LGT is not that simple. It requires a sequence of starts and revving the engine... etc... to get all the bubbles out. It doesn't seem difficult... just lots of steps... It would be nice if someone did a walkthrough for this to explain what's going on.

 

I have no idea why they would list replace fuel filter. I think it's a scam. Ask them for the old fuel filter. If the fuel filter truly was replaced, it would cost a helluva lot more than that. The fuel filter according to my manual is in the fuel tank.

[iyamdman]

I am getting ready to do my 30k Service. I called 2 dealers and got similar price $595 !!!! (South Coast and Renick - in The OC). What a rip!!!! They want $120 to do the Change Brake Fluid - but the service guy at Renick told me that it is not required till 60K, and most often they just inspect it and if it's OK then they don't change it. They did want $150 for a coolant flush/replace. I am thinking to replace my pads and fluid with better stuff, so I might as well have a good shop do that and rotate the tires. Replacing Oil and Air filter I can do. I know the coolant flush/replace is a little complex, but $150? That seems steep. I know all the inspection should take about 30 minutes, but the service guys at South Coast would not even quote me on it - they said it's part of the 30K, so I should just pay for the whole think - of course $600. Anyone know a dealer in Southern Cali who will do the 30k for $350 or $400?

[Opie]

the chem coolant flush will probably damage the cooling system and block and in any event wouldn't be needed in a car with that low mileage;

 

the atf needs only be inspected, refresh as needed;

 

the diff etc lubes can go longer;

 

why no brake fluid change listed?

 

you (service) guys need to read the effing manual

 

I can read the manual...and also see the effects everyday of people that don't know how to read/follow the manual properly. 90% of people fall into the "severe" maintenance catagory and should be following the severe duty schedule.

For 2005 and newer Legacy's these are the basics...

 

Most people should be changing their tranny & diff fluids every 15k instead of the 30k. Your tranny will last much longer and shift much smoother with frequent fluid changes.

 

Brake fluid (and clutch fluid) condition should also be checked every 15k, if the fluid is not clear yellow it should be changed (the darker (orangy-brown) the fluid, the more moisture it has absorbed and the less effective it is).

 

Oil, synthetic or not, & filter should still be changed every 3,750 miles.

 

Tires should be rotated every 7,500 miles

 

Air Filter & PCV changed every 30k

 

Spark plugs every 60k (on all 2005 Legacy's and newer)

 

Fuel Filter anytime the fuel pump is serviced (no regular interval)

 

I see people all the time who bring their cars in for concerns that are easily solved by applying the severe duty maintenance schedule.

[IwannaSportSedan]

If the severe duty schedule is supposed to be followed by 90% of people, then why isn't it listed as the normal duty schedule, and the longer intervals as "light duty" or highway mileage schedule?

 

Just curious why the policy would be written in such a way to mislead people as you suggest. Most people don't think of themselves as "hard on their car" to warrant something called "severe". maybe a psychological thing, but still, I would think that Subaru engineers and service people would write the manual correctly. They have money to gain if they shorten the normal service intervals, too, because a significant fraction of the general public will try to follow the manual's schedule, and take it to the dealer and pay for the service.

 

If your car has been maintained so fastidiously, then I want it even more, although I think it might be a bit overzealous, I can't see how it would hurt anything besides your monthly budget. Considering how sweet that car is, I think I would try to spare little expense and observe the maintenance requirements to keep it that way for as long as possible, too.

 

 

DAMN, I need to get this truck sold soon...

[Ed_T]

I can read the manual...and also see the effects everyday of people that don't know how to read/follow the manual properly. 90% of people fall into the "severe" maintenance catagory and should be following the severe duty schedule.

For 2005 and newer Legacy's these are the basics...

 

Most people should be changing their tranny & diff fluids every 15k instead of the 30k. Your tranny will last much longer and shift much smoother with frequent fluid changes.

 

Brake fluid (and clutch fluid) condition should also be checked every 15k, if the fluid is not clear yellow it should be changed (the darker (orangy-brown) the fluid, the more moisture it has absorbed and the less effective it is).

 

Oil, synthetic or not, & filter should still be changed every 3,750 miles.

 

Tires should be rotated every 7,500 miles

 

Air Filter & PCV changed every 30k

 

Spark plugs every 60k (on all 2005 Legacy's and newer)

 

Fuel Filter anytime the fuel pump is serviced (no regular interval)

 

I see people all the time who bring their cars in for concerns that are easily solved by applying the severe duty maintenance schedule.

 

Appears to me your re-write would benefit a service-providers income level.

 

How would all that extra spending on maintenance benefit the average owner, who trades in well before any major component reaches end of service life?

 

Even if the majority of owners ignored even the 'easy' service schedule and performed maintenance much more sporadically, their cars would likely be just fine in the long run anyway.

[Opie]

If the severe duty schedule is supposed to be followed by 90% of people, then why isn't it listed as the normal duty schedule, and the longer intervals as "light duty" or highway mileage schedule?

 

Just curious why the policy would be written in such a way to mislead people as you suggest. Most people don't think of themselves as "hard on their car" to warrant something called "severe". maybe a psychological thing, but still, I would think that Subaru engineers and service people would write the manual correctly. They have money to gain if they shorten the normal service intervals, too, because a significant fraction of the general public will try to follow the manual's schedule, and take it to the dealer and pay for the service.

 

If your car has been maintained so fastidiously, then I want it even more, although I think it might be a bit overzealous, I can't see how it would hurt anything besides your monthly budget. Considering how sweet that car is, I think I would try to spare little expense and observe the maintenance requirements to keep it that way for as long as possible, too.

 

 

DAMN, I need to get this truck sold soon...

 

Subaru's standard maintenance schedule and severe duty schedule are written similarly as other manufactures, I doubt any of it's intent was to mislead people, it just gives people with different driving habits different options.

 

Appears to me your re-write would benefit a service-providers income level.

 

If that's how you want to look at it, not all service-providers are just out to empty your wallet as many people imply.

 

How would all that extra spending on maintenance benefit the average owner, who trades in well before any major component reaches end of service life?

 

Better running/driving/fuel economy while the vehicle is owned, better resale when sold.

 

Even if the majority of owners ignored even the 'easy' service schedule and performed maintenance much more sporadically, their cars would likely be just fine in the long run anyway.

 

You really believe that? You think that all recomended service is just a profit maker? And I'll bet you expect that all repairs on an unmaintained vehicle should be covered by warranty too right?

[direavenger]

Most people should be changing their tranny & diff fluids every 15k instead of the 30k. Your tranny will last much longer and shift much smoother with frequent fluid changes.

 

, my apologies.

 

Opie, what are your thoughts on using other lubricants for this, such as ones from Red Line? Are they worth it, or is it best not to mess with what works?

[Ed_T]

Subaru's standard maintenance schedule and severe duty schedule are written similarly as other manufactures, I doubt any of it's intent was to mislead people, it just gives people with different driving habits different options.

 

 

 

If that's how you want to look at it, not all service-providers are just out to empty your wallet as many people imply.

 

 

 

Better running/driving/fuel economy while the vehicle is owned, better resale when sold.

 

 

 

You really believe that? You think that all recomended service is just a profit maker? And I'll bet you expect that all repairs on an unmaintained vehicle should be covered by warranty too right?

 

 

Your hostility is exceeded only by your transparency, sir.

[direavenger]

Guys, lets try not to turn this into a pecker contest. I think its a great reference, and I'd prefer that it not get locked.

[Opie]

Your hostility is exceeded only by your transparency, sir.

 

Hostility? OK.

 

Transparency...I assume you've met me to make that determination.

 

I agree this is a good reference thread and my replies are to help inform those that some of the dealers suggestions are beneficial for the vehicles. What people choose to do with my suggestions is there own business.

[Opie]

, my apologies.

 

Opie, what are your thoughts on using other lubricants for this, such as ones from Red Line? Are they worth it, or is it best not to mess with what works?

 

Most other lubricants (synthetics) are good but try to find one with that includes a friction modifier in the fluid. The OEM fluid has a friction modifier that helps the syncronizers work better (less notchy, smoother). Synthetics that also have this are great for the car.

[Ed_T]

I can read the manual...and also see the effects everyday of people that don't know how to read/follow the manual properly.

 

Your comment is off topic.

 

90% of people fall into the "severe" maintenance catagory and should be following the severe duty schedule.

 

How can you possibly know this? Where did you get this statistic? Can you provide a link? Come on.

 

For 2005 and newer Legacy's these are the basics...

 

Most people should be changing their tranny & diff fluids every 15k instead of the 30k.

 

Are 'most people' the same people as the '90%' you mention above? Why do you refute FHI's recommended service schedule? I for one don't see any tangible benefits coming from servicing too frequently, and wasting money in the process.

 

Your tranny will last much longer and shift much smoother with frequent fluid changes.

 

But why throw away perfectly serviceable fluids with remaining life? Again, is there really a benefit, tangible or otherwise?

 

Brake fluid (and clutch fluid) condition should also be checked every 15k, if the fluid is not clear yellow it should be changed (the darker (orangy-brown) the fluid, the more moisture it has absorbed and the less effective it is).

 

At least you're not saying "change it".

 

Oil, synthetic or not, & filter should still be changed every 3,750 miles.

 

Now that I interpret as complete BS. Check out bobistheoilguy.com for some enlightenment.

 

 

=====snip

 

I see people all the time who bring their cars in for concerns that are easily solved by applying the severe duty maintenance schedule.

 

I have to say that some of the recommendations you suggest, such as chemically flushing a near-virgin cooling system and block, or tossing synthetic oil at only 3,750 miles, would have me laughing and walking out the door of such an obviously out-of-control dealership.

 

I mean, you are joking with some of this stuff, right?

[Th3Franz]

Ed_T,

Some owners are more picky about their car than others. If you want to go 8k miles between oil changes that is your choice, but I am running synthetic and notice that as I approach 4k miles between changes the car isn't as smooth as it was immediately after the oil change. Plus even with synthetic, the oil filters still need to be changed fairly often.

 

Again, lots of people have lots of different opinions because driving conditions are different and it is difficult to quantify when fluids need to be changed. Wouldn't you rather change fluids a little sooner rather than have them break down and cause significant wear to the parts they are designed to protect?

 

Ultimately it's up to each owner to make the decision for what should be done at the 30,000 mile mark. Opie expressed his recommendations, and you can either take them or leave them. Let's leave it at that.

[Opie]

Franz, thanks for understanding the point(s) I was trying to make.

 

Let me make one last replay in regards to Ed_t'statements above.

 

Now that I interpret as complete BS. Check out bobistheoilguy.com for some enlightenment.

 

I have to say that some of the recommendations you suggest, such as chemically flushing a near-virgin cooling system and block, or tossing synthetic oil at only 3,750 miles, would have me laughing and walking out the door of such an obviously out-of-control dealership.

 

I mean, you are joking with some of this stuff, right?

 

I am a Subaru trained service advisor and as such I must advise customers of the maintenance and repairs needed to their vehicles. SOA's maintenance schedules vary depending on each owners driving habits, if you look in the Warranty and Maintenance Booklet that came with your car you can see the conditions that would require the severe duty schedule. Many are conditions the majority of people encounter on a regular basis.

 

I am well aware of the information posted on the bobistheoilguy.com site, but again part of my duties as a service advisor are to recomend services that not only are economical for the customer, but also follow the factory recomendations. SOA recomends changing the oil every 3,750 miles regardless of the type of oil used. As far as I know bobistheoilguy.com will not pay for your lubrication related engine failure if you follow a longer than recomended oil change interval. If you follow SOA's interval and have a lubrication related failure, SOA will pay for it.

 

I assume you know that a lubricants greatest enemy is heat, something the engine and transmission are constantly producing. This heat is constantly breaking down the lubricants, the longer they are in a component the less effective they become. 15,000 miles of driving in my area with the severe heat, humidity, stop and go traffic and coastal climate are devistating to transmission and differential fluids (even bobistheoilguy.com agrees on this) so my recomendation to my customers is to change those fluids every 15k.

 

And check my previous posts, I never recomended chemical flushing of the coolant.

[Deer Killer]

I changed my tranny to SF MTL-R at 10k right after my clutch was replaced, the oil that came out looked like someone emptied a can of glitter into it.

 

A good synthetic engine oil should be good for extended change intervals though. But you have to use thicker viscosity. The "recommended" oil is really the thinest recommended oil, if your car is not going to see less than 0F then you should go thicker, it reduces contamination of the oil and oil loss, among other things.

[Vimy101]

The 30k maintenance is the key opportunity to switch to synthetic fluids throughout. Changing the tranny filter is an absolute must.

 

With all due respect to our Subaru service advisor, the OEM is out to make money by selling cars and maintenance. The recommended service intervals are designed to get the car through the warranty period. PERIOD. Remember, SOA wants to sell you a new car in a few years.

 

Be smart. Going synthetic is the best and cheapest "overmaintaining" one can do and changing that tranny filter and fluid to syn ATF after 30k will be the single best thing you could ever do for your LGT. Engines aren't the only things that throw off filings. It only takes a few (or even one) severe heat events to seriously compromise the life of your drive line. As has been mentioned, heat is the enemy because it breaks down lubricants. Synthetics are much more stabile under temperature extremes be it hot or cold.

 

The techs at my local shop are excellent pros. They had an apprentice doing the work on my 7500 service but one of the partners came over to pour the new Mobil 1 5/30. As he did it he called over to his partner working on the car next to mine to look at how smoothly synthetic oil poured. He said he likes to pour synthetic oil because it always flows the same way no matter if the shop is 50F or 100F (as it was that day). Futhermore, one must bear in mind that oil flow is part of the engine's cooling system. Synthetic fluids are just better in every regard.

[Deer Killer]

Do you think you have artificial engine seals formed with gunked up dino at 30k miles? I went to synth on a 150k+ motor before. It's a japanese motor, it's just barely getting broken in..

[Vimy101]

Hmm.. is it really safe to switch to Syntheric engine oil that late?

 

All API standards are met. There is nothing ever wrong with going to a superior lubricant.

[yellowdogLGT]

For all you conspiracy theorists (but rightly skeptical) out there,

 

I work closely with a large car manufacturer (one of the big five), and I know for a fact that the service departments have specific goals for selling not only parts as a whole, but particular parts such as windshield wipers, filters, fluids, spark plugs etc. etc. Regions are ranked and compared to other national regions, and the managers are under intense pressure to sell this stuff. Don't let anyone dispute this fact, and be wary of those who say otherwise.

 

I'm sure most of you already get the sense that this (along with their credit/finance arms) makes up a significant portion of the big brands' overall revenue, but when you overhear a regional director saying "...XYZ dealer, you need to sell more batteries this month", it starts to make more sense why these things are aggresively marketed. Not to say that preventative maintenance is not critical, because it most certainly is, but I suppose the point is caveat emptor.

 

Ever wonder why bottled water has an expiration date on it? When asked, a PR for PepsiCo could only answer that they feel the flavor changes, slightly. The accepted explanation is that people tend to throw away things when they're told to, without question, and buy new.

 

Hmmmm...

[LegGTLT]

So... all this talk of synthetic fluids, on an '05 GT MT what fluids would I bring in to the dealer and how much would it cost for me to buy them on my own? How much would I save by not having the dealer use their fluids?

[rockford33]

Well, I just called the Subaru dealer to schedule my 30k service. $797!!! Then I searched here. Unfortunately, DIY is not an option right now. My wife is due to give birth any day, and I just don't have the time with all of the baby stuff, mother-in-law coming to town, etc.

 

I placed a call to another dealer to get a quote. Interesting thing (other than the fact that she asked if it was was a 6cyl) was that she quoted me $615 to $690, depending on teh spark plugs. I was told " because it is a turbo, the manufacturer is recommending that the plugs actually be changed at 30k miles. The plugs could be semi-platinum and they will be changed to platinum plugs. " She went on to state that they wouldn't know which ones are needed until I bring the car in, hence the price range. She is faxing me a list of all of the services performed at that dealership for a 30k service. I'll post it up tonight to get thoughts.

 

Since I am only at 28.5k, I may only do some of the items now. I was just trying to get it down before the little guy made an appearance and changed everything (first kid). I need an oil change, since I have stretched it some due to scheduling and getting close to my 30k service. Any suggestions appreciated, especially since the price quotes are almost $200 apart.

 

Thanks,

Neil

[BayScoobie]

Well, I just called the Subaru dealer to schedule my 30k service. $797!!! Then I searched here. Unfortunately, DIY is not an option right now. My wife is due to give birth any day, and I just don't have the time with all of the baby stuff, mother-in-law coming to town, etc.

 

I placed a call to another dealer to get a quote. Interesting thing (other than the fact that she asked if it was was a 6cyl) was that she quoted me $615 to $690, depending on teh spark plugs. I was told " because it is a turbo, the manufacturer is recommending that the plugs actually be changed at 30k miles. The plugs could be semi-platinum and they will be changed to platinum plugs. " She went on to state that they wouldn't know which ones are needed until I bring the car in, hence the price range. She is faxing me a list of all of the services performed at that dealership for a 30k service. I'll post it up tonight to get thoughts.

 

Since I am only at 28.5k, I may only do some of the items now. I was just trying to get it down before the little guy made an appearance and changed everything (first kid). I need an oil change, since I have stretched it some due to scheduling and getting close to my 30k service. Any suggestions appreciated, especially since the price quotes are almost $200 apart.

 

Thanks,

Neil

$797 f!?!?!?!k.

Subaru Santa Cruz charges $569.95 for a 30k mile service, and if you purchased your car from them, they will give a discount on that quote.

[LegGTLT]

rockford33: Welcome to 30k fun! On the first page there is a list of things for the dealer NOT to do:

 

"Things the dealer does not need to do/ cannot do:

 

1) Change fuel filter:

 

the fuel filter is a part of the fuel pump in LGT's located under the rear passenger seat. It cannot be replaced easily, and is not meant to be.

 

2) Replace spark plugs.

 

The LGT has the iridium plugs that need to be changed every 60,000 miles. The service guide on mysubaru etc. will say to change at 30,000, but the service manual and the plug manufacturer recommends 60,000. 2.5i's need them changed at 30,000 miles.

 

3) Replace Differential fluids:

 

Differential fluid does not need to be replaced at 30,000 miles. You can do it if you like, but it's like throwing out milk that hasn't gone bad yet just because it might go bad in a couple of weeks."

 

So I would RUN from whatever dealer said "because it's a turbo we need to change the spark plugs" since it's actually the exact opposite as stated in the manual and recco'ed by the manufacturer. Are there any local Subbie shops around you? I ended up going down to the local performance shop and had the 30k done for $131. No fuel filter change, no spark plug change, and no 1.5 hours of labor to "look at stuff". Call around to some independents in your area that are Subaru specific. Good luck!!!

[rjundi]

A generic question on the 30k service. Would it be more on a 2005 LGT vs a 2004 Subaru WRX? I paid $425 on 04 WRX for the 30k service at a dealer with excellent reputation.

[derffred]

rockford... if you lived in NJ, i'd do it for you for a few bucks plus fluids lol.. i just did mine 3000 miles ago.. considering the fact i got free oil and coolant through work (a Mercedes-Benz dealer), i just bought the trans and diff fluids which was 50 dollars, and the oil filter was $6