Stepping it up a notch, need a rotated turbo!

[Tehnation]

So I finally got my car on a dyno, and I was trying to hit 400whp but came short. Also learned a lot from a reputable shop, and now I have to kick it up a notch. My block is probably good for 750 hp at the flywheel. But I need to flow a lot more air on both the intake and exhaust. 

I need a externally wastegate and rotated turbo setup I need to flow a lot more air. Going to need a new up pipe with external wastegate, downpipe for that setup, intake, front mount intercooler, and a big fat turbo. Probably going to have to get setup for speed density, I have to look into that more because i am not familiar with it. 

So far ive just figured out the fmic. Looks beefy. Not many options out there.

https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/collections/legacy-gt-intercoolers/products/ets-05-09-subaru-legacy-gt-intercooler-only

https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/products/ets-05-09-subaru-legacy-gt-intercooler-piping-kit

As for the rest I could use some feedback!

dyno.pdf

 

[Tehnation]

Ok so I have a gameplan! Not going rotated, just going EWG. 

 

Turbo - either the FP Black or BCP x500r ,leaning  more towards the FP Black cause i'm running 93 octane. 

https://www.forcedperformance.shop/products/fp-black-for-subaru-wrx-sti

https://boostcontrolledperformance.com/product/bcp-x500r-turbocharger/

 

Intercooler - ETS 4" FMIC intercooler and pipping 

https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/collections/legacy-gt-intercoolers/products/ets-05-09-subaru-legacy-gt-intercooler-only

https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/products/ets-05-09-subaru-legacy-gt-intercooler-piping-kit

 

Turbo inlet - if I go FP i will get the 84mm FP turbo inlet

https://www.forcedperformance.shop/collections/intake-system-2/products/subaru-84mm-inlet-pipe

 

Air Intake - will need something that works with the FMIC, ETS makes one that works with their fmic

https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/collections/legacy-gt-intakes/products/ets-05-09-subaru-legacy-gt-intake?variant=19933311893574

 

EWG uppipe and downpipe kit - looking at Ultimate Racing kit not sure if the wrx/sti is interchangeable with 4th gen, gotta look into this. I need a recirculated EWG. 

https://www.ultimate-racing.com/products/sti-wrx-ewg-uppipe-and-downpipe-recirculation-kit

 

Speed density setup - going with the iWire

https://iwireusa.com/products/hybrid-maf-wiring-kit?variant=41226124263577

https://iwireusa.com/collections/iwire-plug-and-play-harnesses/products/speed-density-wiring-kit?variant=41181609033881

 

AOS - already got the iag aos kit

https://www.iagperformance.com/iag-performance-v3-street-series-air-oil-separator-aos-for-2008-14-subaru-impreza-wrx-2008-20-sti/

 

Injectors - not sure if i need more injector, I have 1000cc atm, will have to look into my duty cycles.

https://deatschwerks.com/collections/injectors/products/16m-07-1500-4

 

[Tehnation]

Do all FMIC kits need to remove the bumper beam? 

[KZJonny]

Worth reaching out to JMP about one of these as well? Either should support your power goals, unless you’re hoping to max out what you can get?

Just a thought. I think most FMIC kits require cutting or losing the big bumper bar. There are kits to brace up the front subframe members if you do.

Edited September 26, 2023 by KZJonny

[Max Capacity]

Have you reached out to one of the great Tuners such as tuningalliance@gmail.com, or cyroperformance.com

You know they are the ones to advise you.

 

I should reach out to TA and see how he's doing and update him.

[tehspud]

17 hours ago, Tehnation said:

Do all FMIC kits need to remove the bumper beam? 

I would assume so. The Grimmspeed kit for 08-14 WRX “fits” on the LGT, you just have to trim a bunch of the bumper, and you lose fog lights. But it does allow you to use their replacement bumper beam. 
 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by tehspud

[shralp]

Thought about the Blouch 3.0 XT-R? Ball bearing goodness

[tysparks81]

31 minutes ago, shralp said:

Thought about the Blouch 3.0 XT-R? Ball bearing goodness

I actually like this option, as I'm running the blouch 2.5xtr and think I'm pretty close to 400 on pump gas.  I think going to a 3.0 or 4.0 would have gotten me to 400 easier but with more lag.  

[shralp]

56 minutes ago, tysparks81 said:

I actually like this option, as I'm running the blouch 2.5xtr and think I'm pretty close to 400 on pump gas.  I think going to a 3.0 or 4.0 would have gotten me to 400 easier but with more lag.  

Sorry for the brief thread jack, hey ty what are you getting out of your 2.5xtr currently?  Did you go with 8cm or 10cm?  Currently considering it for my track car, thx. 

[NORULZleggy]

Go with ETS kit and it will not remove the bumper beam, and you can keep the stock fogs. I plan on getting the kit as long as my other legacy does not need a rebuild. Also I talked to my shop about this and they were like GET IT lol. I think next year I will get it and have it installed. also precision has a big drop-in turbo that can make some power with out going rotated. I mean i make 317 on 93 pump. I hope with FMIC I can get a few extra. I am not looking to make close to that.

[Tehnation]

I already have a 20g, and it put down almost 360 awhp/trq, dyno results file attached to 1st post. 

 

I am going by the tuners recommendation,  this tuner is legit, JR. As for the shop, I will only share it with locals because the countries gone crazy with EPA laws etc. And they can tune on my Cobb which has no TGVs, and I can go back to catless, ... my 360hp car is a joke compared to the crazy wrx/sti s they are tuning, but having a tuner 45 minutes away is so clutch atm. I told them the downpipe/uppipe combo I wanted to use and they said no, we meant a straight EWG dump, not Recirculating.... my type of people, screw that other noise lol. Damn the cats and other epa BS. 

 Gunning for 500awhp, I'll take more if I can.

 

The ETS Tmic has 3 sizes 3, 3.5 and 4 inches. Do they all fit? I was planning to go with the 4".

 

I'm removing the uppipe/downpipe Recirculating kit and just getting a PLM uppipe with 44mm tial wastegate. , and its just going to dump it to the atmosphere. 

 

Thought about the blouchs but I need an external wastegate to get that big boy power. The BCP x500r is no joke, it can make over 600hp at the wheels on e85 with stock oem turbo inlet!!! The main thing here is I need a turbo that doesn't house the wastegate and turbines. EWG turbos can put out more hp cause they can flow more air and aren't mixing the bypass and turbine exhausts. 

 

Not going rotated btw!

[tysparks81]

2 hours ago, shralp said:

Sorry for the brief thread jack, hey ty what are you getting out of your 2.5xtr currently?  Did you go with 8cm or 10cm?  Currently considering it for my track car, thx. 

Hey bud, I'm running the 10cm with stock inlet.  You have the option of going with the 3" inlet, but you will probably want the 8cm with stock inlet if its for a track car

[tysparks81]

Just an FYI you can run a blouch turbo with an external wastegate  I recommend going with 4.0 or 5.0 if you are shooting for 5xxwhp  They are still stock location. But they do only come with 3" inlets at that size.

[Tehnation]

The blouch's all have internal wastegates, why run it with an EWG? 

[Tehnation]

2 hours ago, NORULZleggy said:

Go with ETS kit and it will not remove the bumper beam, and you can keep the stock fogs. I plan on getting the kit as long as my other legacy does not need a rebuild. Also I talked to my shop about this and they were like GET IT lol. I think next year I will get it and have it installed. also precision has a big drop-in turbo that can make some power with out going rotated. I mean i make 317 on 93 pump. I hope with FMIC I can get a few extra. I am not looking to make close to that.

 Are you sure cause it says in the notes for the  piping kit that the bumper beam has to be removed, not sure if thats to install or permanent. 

[tysparks81]

48 minutes ago, Tehnation said:

The blouch's all have internal wastegates, why run it with an EWG? 

Yes they are included, but if you speak to them or read the description the last line for the following turbos have a note. 3.5xtr, 4.0xtr

NOTE: The Dominator 4.0XT-R is a bolt-on upgrade that requires a 3" inlet.  Blouch Turbo requires TGV deletes to be used with this turbo and strongly recommends an external gate to achieve maximum performance.

The blouch 5.0xtr will only work with an external wastegate where as the others can be setup in either format.

[Tehnation]

You think the 5.0XTR makes more hp than the FP or BCP? 

I'm just going with the recommendations from the tuners, who are accustomed to big horsepower, 1000+ drag strip cars on slicks. While I was waiting they had 2 cars before me both putting out well over 800 awhp. I'm assuming they know more than me about the subject so I'm just going with it lol. 

[Tehnation]

I'm thinking...... If I am going with a FMIC, why bother with the regular setup, why not go rotated at that point??? That way I can put on a monster intake....hmmmm, back to the drawing board., gonna see the costs for both setups. 

[tysparks81]

I'm all for a rotated setup and you can make more power with a bigger rotated turbo, I would like to go that route myself once I can get tuning figured out.  But you should understand what your goals are for this car.  If you are chasing HP numbers get the biggest rotated setup you can fit under the hood, if this is going to be a drag car, or a weekend track car or just fun fast daily that big rotated setup might not be the best choice/option. 

I had found this list of turbos yesterday and wanted to post it so you could see the size comparison to some of the turbos you would be looking for and help you find turbo sizing that works for you.  Just as an FYI the 4 turbos below all share the same size wheels.  First two being stock location, and last two being rotated.  

FP Black = Dom 5.0xtr = Garrett 3582 = Precision PTE 6266 

Brand Turbo CmpInd CmpExd TrbInd TrbExd Flow CHRA Bearings Mounting
Blouch 16G XT 48.30 64.30 55.50 49.00 41.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Blouch 18G XT 49.80 68.00 55.50 49.00 43.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Blouch 20G XT 52.00 68.00 63.00 54.00 47.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Blouch 16G XT-R 48.30 64.30 54.00 49.40 38.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Blouch 18G XT-R 49.80 68.00 56.50 51.70 43.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Blouch 20G XT-R 52.00 68.00 56.50 51.70 47.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Blouch Dom 1.5 XT-R 53.00 71.00 56.50 51.70 49.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Blouch Dom 2.5 XT-R 53.00 71.00 60.00 54.90 49.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Blouch Dom 3.0 XT-R 57.00 76.00 60.00 54.90 55.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Blouch Dom 3.5 XT-R 57.00 76.00 64.00 58.60 58.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Blouch Dom 4.0 XT-R 60.00 82.00 64.00 58.60 60.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Blouch Dom 5.0 XT-R 62.00 84.00 68.00 62.20 65.0 Ball Bearing Stock
BorgWarner BW 7670 56.00 76.00 70.00 61.00 58.0 Journal Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner BW 8375 60.00 83.00 75.90 68.00 68.0 Journal Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner BW 8875 63.00 88.00 75.90 68.00 75.0 Journal Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner BW 9180 66.00 91.00 80.00 73.00 82.0 Journal Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner EFR 6258 49.60 62.00 58.00 51.00 44.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner EFR 6758 53.90 67.00 58.00 51.00 49.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner EFR 7064 52.20 70.00 64.00 56.00 56.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner EFR 7163 57.00 71.00 63.00 N/A 60.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner EFR 7670 57.20 76.00 70.00 62.00 64.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner EFR 8374 62.60 83.00 74.00 64.00 79.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
BorgWarner EFR 9180 67.70 91.00 80.00 74.00 94.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Forced Perf FP 68HTA 68.00 65.00 47.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Forced Perf FP 71HTA 51.20 71.00 65.00 55.00 51.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Forced Perf FP Green HTA 54.80 76.00 67.00 59.00 59.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Forced Perf FP Red 61.21 81.79 67.00 59.00 65.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Forced Perf FP Red 76HTA 58.00 76.00 60.00 54.90 60.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Forced Perf FP Black HTA 59.10 82.00 67.30 58.80 68.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Forced Perf FP Black 82HTA 62.00 82.00 68.00 62.23 68.0 Ball Bearing Stock
Forced Perf FP HTA 3076R 54.80 76.00 60.00 54.90 59.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Forced Perf FP HTA 3582R 62.00 82.00 68.00 62.20 68.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Forced Perf FP HTA 3586R 62.10 86.20 68.00 62.20 75.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Forced Perf FP HTA 3786R 62.10 86.20 72.50 66.50 78.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Forced Perf FP HTA 3794R 67.50 94.00 72.50 66.50 93.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Forced Perf FP HTA 4294R 67.70 94.00 82.00 77.00 96.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Forced Perf 6466TZ 64.00 88.00 72.60 66.30 92.5 Ball Bearing Rotated
Forced Perf HTZ Super 94 67.70 94.00 76.00 67.00 95.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Forced Perf HTZ Super 99 72.00 99.00 76.00 67.00 103.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Garrett GT 2871R 51.20 71.00 54.00 49.40 46.0 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GT 3071R 53.10 71.00 60.00 54.90 46.0 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GT 3076R 57.00 76.20 60.00 54.90 52.5 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GT 3582R 61.40 82.00 68.00 62.20 60.0 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GT 4088R 63.50 88.00 77.00 70.40 67.5 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GT 4294R 70.30 94.00 82.00 77.00 85.0 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GTX 3071R 54.10 71.40 60.00 54.90 56.0 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GTX 3076R 58.00 76.60 60.00 54.90 64.0 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GTX 3576R 58.00 76.60 68.00 62.20 65.0 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GTX 3582R 62.50 82.50 68.00 62.20 75.0 Ball Bearing Both
Garrett GTX 4294R 70.30 94.00 82.00 77.00 95.0 Ball Bearing Both
IHI VF39/48/52 46.50 60.00 52.80 47.88 34.0 Journal Bearing Stock
MHI TD04L 13T-6 40.70 56.00 47.00 41.30 26.7 Journal Bearing Stock
MHI TD05H 16G 48.30 68.00 56.00 49.10 37.9 Journal Bearing Stock
MHI TD05H 18G 50.50 68.00 56.00 49.10 43.7 Journal Bearing Stock
MHI TD05H 20G 52.50 68.00 56.00 49.10 47.4 Journal Bearing Stock
MHI TD06SL2 20G 52.50 68.00 61.00 54.00 47.4 Journal Bearing Stock
MHI TD06H 20G 52.50 68.00 67.00 58.80 47.4 Journal Bearing Stock
MHI TD06H 60-1 59.50 76.00 67.00 58.80 61.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Precision Subaru 5530 54.90 76.20 56.50 51.78 52.5 Ball Bearing Stock
Precision PTE 5558 54.90 76.20 64.90 57.91 59.0 Either Rotated
Precision PTE 5858 58.00 76.20 64.90 57.91 62.0 Either Rotated
Precision PTE 5862 58.00 76.20 71.00 61.90 64.0 Either Rotated
Precision PTE 6262 62.23 81.99 71.00 61.90 70.5 Either Rotated
Precision PTE 6266 62.00 81.99 74.17 66.00 73.5 Either Rotated
Precision PTE 6266 G2 62.00 81.99 74.17 66.00 80.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Precision PTE 6466 G2 64.39 86.61 74.17 66.00 90.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Precision PTE 6766 67.44 88.32 74.17 66.00 93.5 Either Rotated
Precision PTE 6870 G2 68.02 92.46 78.74 70.21 110.0 Ball Bearing Rotated
Precision PTE 7175 70.99 93.98 82.00 75.08 98.5 Either Rotated
Precision PTE 7275 72.40 91.00 82.00 75.08 101.5 Either Rotated
Steam STX 67 49.70 67.40 55.80 49.10 48.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Steam STX 71 54.10 71.40 61.00 54.10 59.0 Journal Bearing Stock
Steam STX 20G-R 52.50 68.00 60.00 54.90 47.4 Ball Bearing Stock

[Tehnation]

I'm looking to max out my block. I'd say the weakest part of my block would be the rods, they are rated for 750 hp (flywheel), call it 600 awhp with a 20% loss, i'm just guessing no idea what the average loss is for awd subaru drivetrains. The 5mt can supposedly take around 500awhp. To be safe I would say I am looking for around 500awhp, give or take 25hp, on 93 octane. 

I probably don't need to go rotated, I was just considering the fact it may be cheaper to go rotated so why not. But then I thought about how the vacuum system would work. As for the oem placement turbo I dunno how easy it is to stick a 3-3.5" turbo inlet under the stock manifold. I may need to get 18mm spacers, they make them for both sides of the TGV, found these on the net the other day.

https://www.kstech.biz/intake-manifold-spacers-19mm-manifold-to-head-for-2001-subaru-turbo-ej/

https://www.kstech.biz/intake-manifold-spacers-19mm-manifold-to-tgv-for-subaru-turbo-ej/

 I gotta see how much hood clearance I have to see I can get one of those to work, maybe both. I always wondered if raising the TGV from the head made any difference with fueiling cause essentially your moving it away from the intake, I looked on the net but it doesn't seem to be a thing anyone looked into. 

 

My idea of a daily driver differs from most, I don't mind a hot rod as a daily driver, as long as I got ac/heat and music i'm good! I don't drive much, probably about 100 miles a week if that, and I have another care so I don't care if it goes down, plus I got AAA plus, 4 free tows up to 100 miles a year for like a 100 bucks a year. I don't drive it in the rain either.  NYC Metro area driving is a different animal, you need that drag power for off the line and stop lights to get in front of people and to beat yellow lights cause everything has cameras, and that big end for passing people on the highways. Horsepower lets you rule the road.

[Tehnation]

Are there any flex fuel kits other than the cobb? Looks like they no longer make it anymore, might have to find new old stock or a different company. Anyone know of any other companies making a good flex fuel kit comparable to the old cobb kit? 

[KZJonny]

Haltech for a one size fits all?

Plenty of parallel flow adaptors out there for the inexpensive, but flor restricting GM units.

Programming it will be the tricky part, I suspect. But it’s been done plenty of times, so there must be a plan out there to figure out which I/O to use to talk to the ECU.

Unless those on E85 tunes are manually changing maps when they change fuel types?

[Tehnation]

The flex fuel kit allows you to put in whatever you want and you dont have to think about it, one day you can have 70% 93 30% E85, then go to 40% 93 60% E85 and the map will adjust accordingly based on the sensor telling whatever unit the ratio. So you can go full 93 or full E85 or whatever mix, that is the best reason to use it because its completely adaptable based on whatever you have in the tank. Cobb had a plug and play kit which made things super simple.

https://www.cobbtuning.com/flex-fuel-for-subaru-forester-xt-and-legacy-gt/

But they no longer make it. The kit I want would have to be comparable to this kit. 

And to be perfectly frank E85 is just instant horsepower! So its probably one of  the best bang for your buck mods you can get considering your current mods. 

[KZJonny]

Oh for sure. I get how it works.

You just need a signal from the the FF sensor and the mapping for each fuel. ECU does the rest for blending the maps, etc…

There are plenty of easy ways to get the signal. I was just curious how you feed that info to the ECU and have it make those adjustments.

Sorry for the clutter. The COBB kit doesn’t look like whole lot more than a GM flex fuel sensor and And STi fuel reg packaged with some fancy fuel lines… it’s the magic in the wiring and tuning that is NLA.

I wonder what is in the literal ‘little black box’ that it comes with that allows it to talk to the ECU.

[Tehnation]

I think whats going on is something in the flex fuel contraption is sending signals which the cobb or protuner software can then use to adjust whatever fuel make it happener accordingly. Its actually pretty basic but they made it plug and play and works easily with tuning software.