Stepping it up a notch, need a rotated turbo!

[Code]

I don’t follow what you’re saying. Where will you instal the IAT?  You want it to be  after the IC core and as close to throttle body as possible in order to get the most accurate reading. 

[Code]

Also, due to delays with the welder, when I first got tuned I used the factory IAT for speed density.  JR said it wouldn’t be that big of a deal to relocate it and drive on his tune.  

[Tehnation]

I installed it in the IC, see picture. But prior to that I also ordered everything I would need to install the iat in the hose between the IC and TB, as a 2nd option if I couldn't find someone to weld the bung to the IC. I was just sharing that information in case anyone was thinking of going SD with TMIC and not wanting to drill into the IC.

[Code]

Ah Ij follow you now. 

[Tehnation]

Part of me wishes I would have gone the hose route because now the resale value of my IC goes down and more places to potentially leak air from and cause more problems. Hose is simple especially if you have the oem style which they have a bunch of aftermarket options and is cheap. But this Grimmspeed hose is a pita cause its so awkwardly shaped and only one seller(they actually gave me a hard time about it, wanting to see reciepts, reason etc. like they were afraid of me stealing their technology or whatever reason so they aren't so easy to give it up!), but it does have some nice flat spots so it might be better. When I get the extra one I will see for sure.  

[Code]

Lol. Worried about resale value before it’s even tuned!  So very LGT of you.  

Subscribed for the part-out

[Tehnation]

I was more thinking that I may go FMIC, and the kit I was looking at costs 1k for the intercooler alone and another 800 for the piping kit. 

$960 for the 4" intercooler

https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/collections/legacy-gt-intercoolers/products/ets-05-09-subaru-legacy-gt-intercooler-only?variant=19933310844998

And another 800 for piping

https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/collections/legacy-gt-intercoolers/products/ets-05-09-subaru-legacy-gt-intercooler-piping-kit

Who goes backwards when they upgrade, if I go fmic, I would probably not go back to a tmic setup. 1800+ for a fmic kit seems pricey, selling the tmic would make getting the fmic more appealing, if that makes sense.

Either way, I think the E85 will be enough to get me to my goals for now, hopefully. Its hard to put a number value on the hp goal cause I'm more accustomed to rwd setups. Awd hp feels different imo, and all I know is atm I want more hp. I am currently just shy off 360 peak hp/trq, I feel I need at least another 75-maybe 100. If the e85 doesn't do it, then yea I gotta start planning again. 

[NORULZleggy]

1 hour ago, Tehnation said:

I was more thinking that I may go FMIC, and the kit I was looking at costs 1k for the intercooler alone and another 800 for the piping kit. 

$960 for the 4" intercooler

https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/collections/legacy-gt-intercoolers/products/ets-05-09-subaru-legacy-gt-intercooler-only?variant=19933310844998

And another 800 for piping

https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/collections/legacy-gt-intercoolers/products/ets-05-09-subaru-legacy-gt-intercooler-piping-kit

Who goes backwards when they upgrade, if I go fmic, I would probably not go back to a tmic setup. 1800+ for a fmic kit seems pricey, selling the tmic would make getting the fmic more appealing, if that makes sense.

Either way, I think the E85 will be enough to get me to my goals for now, hopefully. Its hard to put a number value on the hp goal cause I'm more accustomed to rwd setups. Awd hp feels different imo, and all I know is atm I want more hp. I am currently just shy off 360 peak hp/trq, I feel I need at least another 75-maybe 100. If the e85 doesn't do it, then yea I gotta start planning again. 

I am going FMIC kit and I am going with the one you posted, is the cost high? YES but everything is high these days. I have been saving up for it and will make the money easy to let go of. Do I need this FMIC NO, but my tuner and shop was like get it and they are not even selling it to me lol. I also have the GS TMIC kit and I have extra hoses that I got from them.

[Tehnation]

I would get the kit, it seems to be excellent quality. I was going to get it when the tuner was like tuning for high horsepower on 93 octane gets more dangerous to the block. So I said let me try e85 route 1st to see where that gets me. I can get a lot of horsepower for like a thousand bucks, e85 flex fuel kit was 550, so that is the bare minimum you would need, for significant gains. Price per hp, the e85 kit is big power adder versus the cost. To get any gains from a fmic kit ur gonna need a big ass turbo that can make use of it. My 20g would hardly see any gains from a fmic kit. So at that point im spending like 5k.

Also if u get the fmic kit, u will probably need their air intake, like another 400 dollars. Cause the piping comes up where the oem air box sits, so u need an inlet that will play nice with the piping. My grimmspeed air intake would cause issues cause it has that cold air box, and if u remove the box then nothing would be supporting the intake pipe and filter and it would just  flop around, no bueno.

[Tehnation]

Installed the DW FPR with damper(hoping it evens out pressure flow, pressure gauge fluctuates between +-3psi) and flex fuel kit. Pretty straightforward with the flex fuel kit. Fuel sensor bolts to the bottom mount of the fuse box, you can barely see it below the fuse box behind the battery. Install is easy, remove the battery, install fuel sensor, the fuel senor then plumbs into the fuel return line between the intake manifold fuel rail and FPR, then you put a hole in the fuse box cover to mount the module, and last you just plug in the wiring harness into the engine harness tgv plug, the module and the fuel sensor.  

[KZJonny]

Maybe your local parts supplier is doing the same thing, but I just got a notice from mine that ETS stuff is all discounted down a little from normal prices. Early Black Friday stuff I suppose.

Normally much of Black Friday stuff is just marketing BS, so YMMV, but since you are already in the market for the kit, it may be the time to pull the trigger on it?

10-16% off a kit that expensive isn't nothing...

[Tehnation]

29 minutes ago, KZJonny said:

Maybe your local parts supplier is doing the same thing, but I just got a notice from mine that ETS stuff is all discounted down a little from normal prices. Early Black Friday stuff I suppose.

Normally much of Black Friday stuff is just marketing BS, so YMMV, but since you are already in the market for the kit, it may be the time to pull the trigger on it?

10-16% off a kit that expensive isn't nothing...

I already drilled a hole in my TMIC so I gotta see what the e85 can do 1st. That might be for round 3. 

[Tehnation]

I started working on the AOS and Turbo Inlet. Then realized the turbo inlet isn't exactly plug and play, you will need some 9 or 10 mm ID tubing to make it work with the boost controller and line that goes to that vacuum thing that also connects to the fuel line and the back of intake manifold. I plugged the line for the plastic PCV tube that goes to both valve covers cause I am separating my PCV system from the intake system. So I don't need the PCV return line either. The middle bung behind that bracket makes it impossible to use the boost solenoid bracket so i have to use the bung closest to the turbo and the inlet for my 2 vacuum lines. If I didn't have the AOS, I am wondering how people would get this task done. Would probably need to delete the bracket. 

[KZJonny]

For sure, and I bet you get some good numbers with that setup and E85. Jealous of being able to get that down your way. They axed E85 in Ontario years ago. NLA anyhere.

I thought there might be others who were following and might be interested anyway. Looking forward to seeing the results with the flexfuel kit.

[Tehnation]

Damn that sucks. I am mainly going the e85 because its a cheap power adder and safer for the engine. The tuner said going over 400 on pump gas gets dicey and the e85 burns cooler, so less heat which equals more fuel and bigger bang. 

[Code]

You won’t be disappointed. I’ve driven on gas exactly one time since I went flex fuel.  I filled up the other day and my local station is on winter blend.  Reading 72.4, down from 79.8 at my last fill-up (September)

[Tehnation]

What kind of ban do they have in Ontario? Can you not get it at all, at a pump, or can you get it via other means like getting 55 gallon drums, fuel truck, etc.. Not sure of the situation and rules. 

[KZJonny]

14 minutes ago, Tehnation said:

What kind of ban do they have in Ontario? Can you not get it at all, at a pump, or can you get it via other means like getting 55 gallon drums, fuel truck, etc.. Not sure of the situation and rules. 

It’s not a ban so to speak, there just is not a single place to get E85 at a pump in a province of 15M people.

I am sure I could get drums of it. 
Hell, I’m in the beverage alcohol industry. I can probably get E95 easily enough if I ask around.

Just doesn’t make sense in a place as big as here (Ontario/Canada) tho. For me to visit my family, for example is ~1000kms, 10 hrs driving.

If my fuel station is my garage, I’d still spend most of my time on pump gas just because going almost anywhere away from my current city means a fill up. Not ideal, but my power goals are a well within reach of 91/93, so it’s fine.

It would be fun to have the option for those days you want to really romp on it tho.

[Tehnation]

The beauty of flex fuel is that it can use either pump gas, e85 or a mix. You use pump gas on those long trips, and when you want to have some fun you throw in some E85 kind of deal. Just sayin, its like a cheap nitrous kit, you don't have to use it all the time. 

[tysparks81]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:49 PM, Tehnation said:

The beauty of flex fuel is that it can use either pump gas, e85 or a mix. You use pump gas on those long trips, and when you want to have some fun you throw in some E85 kind of deal. Just sayin, its like a cheap nitrous kit, you don't have to use it all the time. 

I looked into E85 options up here in Ontario and outside of buying drums that worked out to something like $250/tank of gas.  Its not the most cost effective solution.  If I lived in the US were it was more available at a much better cost I would be all over the flex fuel kit.

[KZJonny]

9 hours ago, tysparks81 said:

I looked into E85 options up here in Ontario and outside of buying drums that worked out to something like $250/tank of gas.  Its not the most cost effective solution.  If I lived in the US were it was more available at a much better cost I would be all over the flex fuel kit.

Yikes. I didn't pursue it even that far... But that kind of price is nuts.

I really wonder if you could have a chat with your local distillery and see if they could do better for you by buying the heads and tails out of their distillation runs for example. I sincerely doubt many places do enough volume to provide much tho. It's no longer cheap power at those costs!!

Done threadjacking!

[Tehnation]

After installing the AOS, and moving the engine harness connector, I am now getting a cel, p2088, passenger ocv. I bought a new one from the dealership, and same thing. So it looks like the used harness i bought before is garbage, so I ordered a new oem one..... was supposed to get on the dyno tomorrow, but thats gonna be a no go with this cel. Silver lining I will have a little more time to install the new turbo inlet, which wasn't agreeing with my tgv deletes. 

I am hoping the new harness fixes the issue, because when I shake the main harness connector all sorts of bad things start happening to the motor, so there is definitely an issue there. 

I also ordered :

Aluminum TGV deletes, got a good deal elsewhere, paid 100 bucks less. 

https://bloxracing.com/products/5-axis-tgv-delete-kit-2015-subaru-ej20-ej25

And some bigger spacers, 18mm, got both types , just in case and why not! Will probably only use the manifold to head spacer.

https://www.kstech.biz/intake-manifold-spacers-19mm-manifold-to-tgv-for-subaru-turbo-ej/

https://www.kstech.biz/intake-manifold-spacers-19mm-manifold-to-head-for-2001-subaru-turbo-ej/

 

The reason I ordered that stuff was to get more room for the Killer B Turbo Inlet. My old shitty plastic tgv deletes bolt from the top where the intake manifold bolts, so there is a channel there that takes up room. If you look at the ones I ordered, you can see that it bolts to the block from the bottom of the TGV versus mine which has a channel that goes all the way to the top of the TGV for longer bolts. When I pull them I will take pictures, cause its hard to explain. 

The extra foot from the IAT kit was crucial, just barely made it, and sticking the DW pulsation damper in their FPR worked like a charm, now the fluctuation is minimal. 

[Tehnation]

I also realized that if you use the grimmspeed tmic and intake spacers you will put more angle on the inlet to ic tube which is bad. So I am thinking I need to make some adjustments/mods on the other end to raise the ic to avoid kinking the tube.  

[Tehnation]

Ugh.... plastic TGV's... I can't get the bolts out of the tgv that fasten the intake manifold. Short of destroying the tgvs ... might be easier to get a used one. 

Anyone know if all the 4th gen intake manifolds are interchangeable? I am noticing different part numbers for years. 

[KZJonny]

Pretty sure they’re all fundamentally the same. Maybe some minor differences between pre and post facelift! B25 and D25 heads fit the same.

I think I may have a pre-facelift one in the parts bin, if you need some measurements.