COVID-19 - who's got some?

[gkinslow]

I have some family that lives in a rural area and they are proceeding with Thanksgiving like it is business as usual.

 

Semi-conflicted about whether or not I should attend. Not worried about myself, but I'm sure the elderly attendees won't be taking ANY precautions.

[DickDastardly00]

I have some family that lives in a rural area and they are proceeding with Thanksgiving like it is business as usual.

 

Semi-conflicted about whether or not I should attend. Not worried about myself, but I'm sure the elderly attendees won't be taking ANY precautions.

 

How many people? If it's small then it might be ok.

 

We're suppose to go to my Sisters but there's 9 of us total, just our two immediate families. But now her husband might have been exposed to the virus. So now we are going but pending a negative test from him.

[HDTurbo]

It's already a mess, been a mess for months now, and now, 3 new independent studies showing that masks don't do shit. Look at the one out of Finland...

 

I know people have been passionate about the mask thing for months now, and yes, I wear one everywhere in public, but you can't argue with science and the science says the virus will pass right through even an N95 mask.

If I fart through a pair of underwear, the underwear is not going to contain the fart. If I'm Asymptomatic and cough through a mask...same damn thing. This virus is far smaller than any fart gasses, your mask might make you 1% safer according to these new studies. One freaking percent.

 

If people really don't want to get sick, then stay TF home. Your mask is doing hardly anything to make others safer and it's a bunch of PC bs to suggest otherwise. What will really stop Viral transmissions is if people aren't in close proximity to each other, like at all, mask or no mask. Which is why China's draconian stay-at-home measure were so effective.

 

PS,

 

the 6ft social distance guideline is also bs, needs to more like 18-24ft to be effective.

 

Edit, I meant Denmark not Finland

 

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Masks do work. Your description of the virus passing through are uninformed as that's not what happens in biological reality. Viral particles are contained within snot/saliva droplets that do not pass through facial coverings. They work.

Edited November 21, 2020 by HDTurbo
spelllllings

[HDTurbo]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/politics/donald-trump-jr-coronavirus/index.html

I wonder if he'll get extraordinary treatments?

[gkinslow]

How many people? If it's small then it might be ok.

 

We're suppose to go to my Sisters but there's 9 of us total, just our two immediate families. But now her husband might have been exposed to the virus. So now we are going but pending a negative test from him.

Yeah we're talking 30 plus people in my aunt's small restaurant. 6 aunts/ uncles, their kids and their families.

 

I guess me going (or not) won't really make a difference as far as exposing the elderly...

 

Just seems irresponsible on their part.

[DickDastardly00]

Masks do work. Your description of the virus passing through are uninformed as that's not what happens in biological reality. Viral particles are contained within snot/saliva droplets that do not pass through facial coverings. They work.

 

This is not correct. Saliva Droplets absolutely DO pass through facial coverings, especially when coughing (even mild coughing). There are plenty of peer-reviewed studies on this.

 

-----

 

 

Hui et al.44. D. S. Hui, B. K. Chow, L. Chu, S. S. Ng, N. Lee, T. Gin, and M. T. V. Chan, “Exhaled air dispersion during coughing with and without wearing a surgical or N95 mask,” PLoS One 7, e50845 (2012). https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0050845 investigated the air dispersion distances traveled during the coughing of a human patient simulator using a laser visualization technique with smoke as a marker. They reported results with and without a surgical and an N95 mask. They showed that a normal cough induces a turbulent flow that spreads about 70 cm from the subject. The N95 mask prevented air leakage more effectively than the surgical mask during coughing, but there was still significant sideway leakage.

 

Using the Schlieren optical method, Tang et al.55. J. W. Tang, T. J. Liebner, B. A. Craven, and G. S. Settles, “A schlieren optical study of the human cough with and without wearing masks for aerosol infection control,” J. R. Soc., Interface 6, 727–736 (2009).

 

https://doi.org/10.1098/rsif.2009.0295.focus showed that wearing a standard surgical mask blocks the forward jet of droplets but allows leakage around the top, bottom, and sides. Furthermore, they showed that an N95 mask reduces the droplet leakage around the mask edges during the cough. However, the pressure inside the mask increases during coughs and the turbulent jet is directed through the front. Although both surgical and N95 masks decelerate the turbulent jet, none of them will prevent the droplets entirely from penetrating or escaping the mask, i.e., droplet transmission.

 

---

 

Masks are slightly better than nothing, sure, but they need to be combined with proper social distancing and rigorous hand washing to be effective at all. Honestly, the latter two are more important. If you are nowhere near an infected person, then you have a relatively slim chance of transmission, that is a fact.

 

I do not think based on studies I've read that 6ft is enough, in some cases the virus traveled up to 24ft.

[DickDastardly00]

Yeah we're talking 30 plus people in my aunt's small restaurant. 6 aunts/ uncles, their kids and their families.

 

I guess me going (or not) won't really make a difference as far as exposing the elderly...

 

Just seems irresponsible on their part.

 

I would turn that one down then.

 

My wife just turned down a funeral. We were told "oh, the facility is half outdoors, everyone will be spread out". Looking at pics of the service later, everyone was crammed in there, no one was wearing a mask, she was so glad she didn't go to it.

[cww516]

Citing corner cases where a thing may not work does not invalidate the cases where it does work. For example, if safety glasses don't stop sledgehammers, why bother wearing them? If a seatbelt won't keep you alive if you get hit by a train, why bother wearing it?

 

 

 

 

 

For what it's worth, I think I've seen studies suggesting that 6' isn't enough, and I agree that the best solution is to just not interact with people, so I'm not just here to talk shit. Masks may not be perfect, but they work well enough that if you have to be around people, they're worth the minor inconvenience.

[ehsnils]

Even if masks don't cut it totally they are at least slowing down the spread and catches some of the particles. So the masks aren't totally useless. Wearing a mask are as I see it more protecting others from you than the other way around.

Just don't use masks with a valve for releasing what you exhale, those aren't catching much of your contaminants.

[Penguin]

Yeah we're talking 30 plus people in my aunt's small restaurant. 6 aunts/ uncles, their kids and their families.

 

I guess me going (or not) won't really make a difference as far as exposing the elderly...

 

Just seems irresponsible on their part.

 

I look at at as their choice.

 

The kids are basically at no risk of dying if they get it. Same most likely for their parents.

 

Grandpa and grandma are grown ass adults and by this point know the risks, it’s not like they lost all their cognitive ability and risk mitigation skills when they turned 65. If they show up, they know there’s a risk. If relatives show up with symptoms they should be asked to leave, but chances are they won’t show up if they are sick and care about everyone else.

[DrD123]

you can't argue with science and the science says the virus will pass right through even an N95 mask.

If an appreciable amount (i.e., something capable of infecting others) always passed through a properly fitted N95 mask, all the healthcare workers would be sick by now. (if the mask is loose, and you can pull in air around the mask, then you are defeating it - that's why when you see folks that have been wearing them, they have marks from where they have been pressed against their face - they must seal against your face)

 

Note that facial coverings are not a 100% guarantee - they never have been, nor have they been pushed as that - they reduce the amount of material spewed out by folks, and how far it goes - they reduce the risk of a sick person wearing a mask getting someone else sick. Facial coverings + social distancing (the further the better) is the name of the game in reducing risk of infection.

[DickDastardly00]

If an appreciable amount (i.e., something capable of infecting others) always passed through a properly fitted N95 mask, all the healthcare workers would be sick by now. (if the mask is loose, and you can pull in air around the mask, then you are defeating it - that's why when you see folks that have been wearing them, they have marks from where they have been pressed against their face - they must seal against your face)

 

Note that facial coverings are not a 100% guarantee - they never have been, nor have they been pushed as that - they reduce the amount of material spewed out by folks, and how far it goes - they reduce the risk of a sick person wearing a mask getting someone else sick. Facial coverings + social distancing (the further the better) is the name of the game in reducing risk of infection.

 

90% of people wear a cloth mask not an N95 mask, which according to new studies, is anywhere from 1 to 4% effective at reducing the rate of transmission. When you don't social distance, the cloth mask isn't going to save you from getting the virus, which was entirely my point, and I am not wrong on this. We are not arguing that masks aren't better than nothing, we are arguing about HOW EFFECTIVE.

 

This is the problem we're sitting here comparing lab test results in a controlled setting when that IS SIMPLY NOT reality. The reality is, the majority of people are wearing cloth masks that are not properly fitted and improperly worn, this includes N95 masks as well. Why do you suppose there is a disclaimer on the box of that N95 mask you bought saying it won't block the covid 19, shits and giggles? No, it's because it doesn't 100 % effectively block the virus, because the virus is too small and can even leak through the respirator filters when coughing, but most people aren't wearing one anyway.

 

As to the health care workers, do you know the routine for dressing for a Covid 19 patients room? It doesn't sound like you really do. It takes approximately 10 minutes to dress for this, N95 rated masks are worn WITH: Face shields, protective eyewear, double gloves, plus hazmat suits. It takes approximately 15 minutes to undress before they leave a secure area. That is very draining on them, which is why a lot of them are burnt out fighting this thing/

 

And even with all of that protective gear, Health care workers are still 12 TIMEs more prone to infection : https://www.massgeneral.org/news/coronavirus/study-reveals-risk-of-covid-19-infection-among-health-care-workers

 

Why is that? If all works so well.....

 

Why is it that 85% of people who contracted Covid 19 say they religiously wear masks? We were told if everyone masks up this thing will be gone in 8 weeks, remember that? Didn't happen.

 

Why is it that mask compliance in the USA is around 98% (higher than it's ever been), but we are nearing August's peak Covid 19 level?

 

Do we all just have bad hygiene?

 

Perhaps, just perhaps these studies are right? That masks aren't nearly as effective as people think they are? They are not a bullet proof vest for this virus like people seem to think they are.

 

It comes down to mitigating risk, risk management. Maybe you shouldn't walk into that packed Costco with your cloth mask to buy that 2000 roll pack of TP? This is what people don't do. Nope, they throw on that cloth mask (with an exposed nose no less) and charge right on in there to commandeer that colossal sized pack of TP, thinking it makes them unstoppable.

 

TLDR, lab tests are not the real world, if you really don't want this thing, then stay home. You're chance of not getting it go up exponentially by not going into public. No contact= no transmission.

Edited November 23, 2020 by DickDastardly00

[boxkita]

the scary side of covid is looking at food sources, especially if you get delivery.

[Underdog]

We were told if everyone masks up this thing will be gone in 8 weeks, remember that?

 

I don't remember that. Everything I heard/read said *proper use of masks in conjunction with other practices like isolating and social distancing, and handwashing* would greatly reduce the rate of transmission. Totally agree that the current approach to masks is theater on par with the TSA.

[Penguin]

We’re all going to get it if you’re inclined to not hide in your basement at all times.

 

Rip the bandaid off and get it over with. This country could use a purge anyway.

[DickDastardly00]

the scary side of covid is looking at food sources, especially if you get delivery.

 

When we get takeout or delivery,just my wife or I handle the food containers, with clean hands we remove the food from the containers and put it on plates, then dispose of the containers and thoroughly sanitize any surfaces afterwards. We also quarantine amazon/ebay/target or other merchandise deliveries in the garage for a couple of days before opening. Might be overkill but we do it anyway.

 

I've literally been doing the same things since March, even during the Summer when cases were down, I still got curbside pick up whenever possible, still didn't go into crowded places. Instead I went to the beach or for a hike instead, lot's of dog walks too. We saw family but were careful about the way we did it.

 

I've said this before but for those that don't know, My wife and I both had Sars Cov-1 and were very sick for about 10 days, even a month after we didn't fully recover, it really took about 6 weeks to even feel somewhat normal, sense of smell came back months after that. Chances are it won't kill you, but trust me, it really sucks, you don't want it. I've already had 'my turn' with this thing, been there done that, don't want a redo.

[DickDastardly00]

I don't remember that. Everything I heard/read said *proper use of masks in conjunction with other practices like isolating and social distancing, and handwashing* would greatly reduce the rate of transmission. Totally agree that the current approach to masks is theater on par with the TSA.

 

Here is the quote if you are curious:

 

 

Reuters) - U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield said on Tuesday that if all Americans wore a mask, the rising cases of COVID-19 could be under control within four to eight weeks.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cdc-idUSKCN24F2PG

 

He said that in mid-July when cases were spiking and people weren't taking mask wearing seriously. Two weeks later we had another peak in early August.

[Underdog]

If people weren’t taking mask-wearing seriously in mid July then wouldn’t the early August spike be inevitable?

 

Not a defense of Redfield at all (he can eat shit), but who reads that quote as a suggestion that masks mean you can go about your life normally like pre-Covid? (Rhetorical question - I see plenty of folks doing just this.) Up here it’s plainly stated that masks are just one of many things recommended to help minimize transmission.

[DickDastardly00]

If people weren’t taking mask-wearing seriously in mid July then wouldn’t the early August spike be inevitable?

 

Not a defense of Redfield at all (he can eat shit), but who reads that quote as a suggestion that masks mean you can go about your life normally like pre-Covid? (Rhetorical question - I see plenty of folks doing just this.) Up here it’s plainly stated that masks are just one of many things recommended to help minimize transmission.

 

From the beginning we were told to do 3 things, Social distancing, wash hands thoroughly with soap and Hot water (for at least 20 seconds) and wear a mask when around others. I would list them in that exact order of importance but all 3 are important.

 

I also didn't address the touching of the front of the mask, mostly likely with dirty hands. That would partly explain why we have another rash of outbreaks but while Mask wearing is way up from the Summer.

 

I just read another news piece that places the blame, not on mask wearing, or even the Gym, restaurants but rather squarely on small gatherings in people's homes. Dinner parties, have a few friends over to watch the game, that sort of thing. I just heard about a local family that got Covid when they let their kids have a sleep over. The experts are saying these types of things are what's driving the latest spike in cases.

[HDTurbo]

ANY lack of adherence to the relatively simple public health recommendations increases the (now realized) risk of spread. It's not that complicated, and the veracity of any one news piece is pretty well-established to not be that strong.

[DickDastardly00]

My Niece in CA just got Covid, she's a school teacher. I was surprised to hear that her school district is open (hybrid model) but that isn't how she got it. Turns out her husband's company took a bunch of people to Las Vegas and he contracted it there. He was Asymptomatic, brought it back to CA and she got it. She has mild symptoms so far, hope it stays that way. This is what I meant about risk mitigation earlier, that trip to Vegas wasn't a good idea even if the company was paying.

[HDTurbo]

Sorry to hear about your niece. Best luck to her.

[Penguin]

Trips to Vegas are never a good idea for just about any reason.

[Penguin]

So I hear the dumb dumbs are hoarding toilet paper again?

 

What is it with people thinking they need 6 months worth of ass wipe if they get locked down, but don’t have that much food?

 

The fact we’re even considering lock downs, and people are hoarding toilet paper and doing stupid shit for a disease the overwhelming majority of us will survive is mind numbingly stupid to me.

 

I kind of want more of these dummies to die, they’re oxygen thieves. They are stealing our oxygen, probably breathing through their mouth noisily while they do it, so they can fulfill their base instinct to hoard ass wipe and hide in their basements. I want them to die.

[HDTurbo]

What’s dumb then and now is hoarding TP for a respiratory infection. Lay people still refer to GI infectious issues as da flu....when influenza is a respiratory infection. But, you can always blow your nose in TP, haven’t done the math on cheaper than hankys/snot rags...