TwoTone Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I will admit, if VW had a better quality image in my mind it might be hard to decide between the Ascent and the Atlas. It will be interesting to see where the Pricing ends up compared to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 I'm partial to the Subaru longitudinal AWD system (and Audi's longitudinal system as well). A transverse mount system is by design a FWD with a rear drive cobbled-on to the side of the transmission. Even with a front LSD, torque steer is apparent and I don't like it in any incarnation. VW's quality image and transverse mount drive system take this immediately out of consideration, same for Ford, Honda, Toyota, and the other T-mount systems. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 ^ And Porsche's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Hopefully we'll find out the fate of the 3.6 at the Chicago Auto Show... 2 more weeks... That's when they've traditionally announced the next year's Legacy info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) For anyone wanting to see it, here's the touring schedule for the Ascent: 2017-2018 Car Shows Indianapolis International Auto Show December 26 through January 1. North American International Auto Show in Detroit, January 17-28. Houston Auto Show, January 24-28 Portland Auto Show, January 25-28 Washington Auto Show, January 26 through February 4 Philadelphia Auto Show, January 27 through February 4 Cincinnati Auto Show February 7-11 Motor Trend International Auto Show in Baltimore, February 8-11 Northeast Auto Show in Providence, February 9-11 Chicago International Auto Show, February 10-19 Dallas Auto Show, February 14-18 Pittsburgh International Auto Show, February 16-19 Cleveland International Auto Show, February 23 through March 4 Greater Milwaukee Auto Show, February 24 through March 4 Kansas City International Auto Show, February 28 through March 4 Twin Cities Auto Show, March 10-18 Columbus International Auto Show, March 15-19 Atlanta Auto Show, March 21-25 New York International Auto Show, March 30 through April 8 Denver International Auto Show, April 4-8 New Mexico Auto Show in Albuquerque, April 13-15 Austin Auto Show, April 20-22 source: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/new-subaru-ascent-coming-car-show-near-you-complete-list I will be in Providence to check Ascent out. Hopefully they allow us to look under hood. I will probably grab my DSLR, don't want to rely on my cell phone camera. Edited January 30, 2018 by SubOperator 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hopefully we'll find out the fate of the 3.6 at the Chicago Auto Show... 2 more weeks... That's when they've traditionally announced the next year's Legacy info... They may keep 3.6 around for Legacy/Outback. Not sure if they have enough to have Ascent and Legacy/Outback to have both get new engines. But yeah it will be interesting. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) They may keep 3.6 around for Legacy/Outback. Not sure if they have enough to have Ascent and Legacy/Outback to have both get new engines. But yeah it will be interesting. Definitely, especially in relation to the price point. Having a single engine across four different trim levels may be a sticking point, especially when it's "only" 260 HP. Thankfully it's boosted, otherwise I wouldn't consider it at all (since I'll be living in Colorado by summer, and hopefully for the rest of my life). If the price point matches the fact that only interior options are changing (and minor exterior things), great. But it's jumping by leaps and bounds with no significant drive-train feature, ... that may be a big issue. *Edit* Ok I just noticed that the base model does NOT have the 5,000 lb tow rating, but all the others do... this suggests to me that the brakes are possibly upgraded, or the higher trims just have a different hitch... I'm thinking the 2nd. If it's just the hitch, man that's silly. Edited January 30, 2018 by Adoniram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Or possibly not rated at all for towing. Maybe the hitch comes standard on the other models, but not the base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) With 5,000 lb tow-rating, they'll finally have to move to the Class III 2" receiver setup vs typical Subaru Class II 1.25" which was Subaru's OEM hitch for the Tribeca; In 2014 it was rated for 3,500 lbs with trans cooler and trailer brakes, otherwise, 2,000 lbs Edited January 30, 2018 by SBT edited in Class information - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 They may keep 3.6 around for Legacy/Outback. Not sure if they have enough to have Ascent and Legacy/Outback to have both get new engines. But yeah it will be interesting. Well, there was a statistic buried in this thread or on the Outback forums about how they're going to make for example 50,000 of these 2.4T engines. The expected demand for the Ascent will be somewhere around 30,000, which gives them an extra 20,000 engines. Perhaps there will be an overlap and people could have a choice between both the 2.4T or the 3.6R for a few years. Maybe not. If all these engines are made at the Gunma plant in Japan, then you would probably need to cut back production on one to ramp up the other, assuming the production output was constant and maxed. I will be in Providence to check Ascent out. Hopefully they allow us to look under hood. I will probably grab my DSLR, don't want to rely on my cell phone camera. Please do. If you can, can you pop the fuel door and take a pic of the cap/inside cover? I'm still trying to get confirmation that "Regular Unleaded" will be okay (87) since all other Subaru turbos require 91/93. The cap should read Premium Unleaded only if it needs the hi-test. Definitely, especially in relation to the price point. Having a single engine across four different trim levels may be a sticking point, especially when it's "only" 260 HP. Thankfully it's boosted, otherwise I wouldn't consider it at all (since I'll be living in Colorado by summer, and hopefully for the rest of my life). . The 3.6 has comparable horsepower to the 2.0T... I wonder if the 2.4T runs on 87 if it can be tuned to 91/93 and actually push closer to 300 hp... Hmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 ...If you can, can you pop the fuel door and take a pic of the cap/inside cover? I'm still trying to get confirmation that "Regular Unleaded" will be okay (87) since all other Subaru turbos require 91/93. The cap should read Premium Unleaded only if it needs the hi-test. ... The 3.6 has comparable horsepower to the 2.0T... I wonder if the 2.4T runs on 87 if it can be tuned to 91/93 and actually push closer to 300 hp... Hmm.... I'll try to remember to check the fuel cap as well (in two weeks). My '16 Acura TLX says "Premium Recommended"... wtf? Allegedly, it can take either fuel but the manual says that premium is recommended. I'll be interested to see if it says the same. For the Ascent, my money is on premium only due to boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 If it's anything like the 2.0DITs (FXT/WRX), the owner's manual will likely state something to the effect: Premium (93 or 91 octane) fuel is recommended for best performance, economy, and engine smoothness but not required. Regular (87 octane) gas is acceptable though there will be slightly less power and economy, and it could increase engine vibration. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I'll try to remember to check the fuel cap as well (in two weeks). My '16 Acura TLX says "Premium Recommended"... wtf? Allegedly, it can take either fuel but the manual says that premium is recommended. I'll be interested to see if it says the same. For the Ascent, my money is on premium only due to boost. All documentation online has indicated either "regular" gas or "87". And that's what the comparable EcoBoost motors they benchmarked against are using. i would be shocked if SIA didn't stick to that at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Personally, I'd run it on 93 just for the added knock-reduction capacity, and better mileage - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Personally, I'd run it on 93 just for the added knock-reduction capacity, and better mileage Not a bad plan. Plenty of people with 2.5i Outbacks have reported better mileage with premium. Probably not more cost effective overall, but that's hard to measure against the what-ifs of total engine life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Premium better on stock tuning? What I’ve read is that it takes dozens of tankfuls for the ECU to actually recognize the higher octane before it starts to advance timing...? Sound accurate? I’m skeptical of any advantage on stock tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 That's why I said probably not more cost effective. I'm no expert on tuning, but those who are have said that when running premium regularly, the car isn't *pulling* any timing, and see better mileage. I am personally doubtful that you'd see enough of an increase in mileage to account for the difference in cost (around here, premium is about 20% more expensive than regular). But I can see the argument for better overall engine life. The value of that is certainly debatable. BUT, with the Ascent running a 2.4T, the case for higher octane is a bit stronger than on the 2.5 NA motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hopefully we'll find out the fate of the 3.6 at the Chicago Auto Show... 2 more weeks... That's when they've traditionally announced the next year's Legacy info... I have seen Subaru do releases at New York as well. Sometimes Subaru will just do it in a press release especially if it's minor changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Yeah, the media.subaru.com website is my home page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Not a bad plan. Plenty of people with 2.5i Outbacks have reported better mileage with premium. Probably not more cost effective overall, but that's hard to measure against the what-ifs of total engine life. I'll have to try that. But it may depend on the driving style as well if it makes a difference. Drive like a granny and you could probably run kerosene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Not a bad plan. Plenty of people with 2.5i Outbacks have reported better mileage with premium. Probably not more cost effective overall, but that's hard to measure against the what-ifs of total engine life. I can confirm this, I've seen better mpg with 93 gas on stock tune and I actually just tested this this weekend, 93 on stock tune made 1.61mpg more. Driving to the same neighboring city and back, same MPH, similar outdoor temps, same headlight/AC usage. Theory on why? When going over the VA mountains the car had plenty of grunt in 6th gear with 93 gas, while 87 gas required me to downshift a lot more often. I haven't done the same test with my fine tuned 87 map yet, but I have a feeling it should be more like the 93 map. Premium better on stock tuning? What I’ve read is that it takes dozens of tankfuls for the ECU to actually recognize the higher octane before it starts to advance timing...? Sound accurate? I’m skeptical of any advantage on stock tuning. It's much faster then then that, though cold weather might delay the timing retard (since it's less likely to knock). These ECU's have max timing and minimum timing. ECU always tries to run the max timing, but if it knocks it will reduce, then try to add back. On my 2.5i, only 93 allows it to run the max timing, while 87 runs on about half the timing. As for being skeptical, don't be, Subaru factory tunes SUCK. My 2.5i would make about 10whp less on 87 then on 93. But after I fine tuned the 87 map, it made the same amount of power as on 93 gas. But this is NA, on a turbo car you can't expect 87 to get even close to 93, 93 will always make more power. That's why I said probably not more cost effective. I'm no expert on tuning, but those who are have said that when running premium regularly, the car isn't *pulling* any timing, and see better mileage. This is correct. I am personally doubtful that you'd see enough of an increase in mileage to account for the difference in cost (around here, premium is about 20% more expensive than regular). This actually is the big factor. At current gas rates going from 24.15mpg (87) to 25.76mpg (93) on my car was still not enough to break even due to higher 93 cost. Cost to x miles: 100 miles: 87 - $9.77, 93 - $12.03 1,000 miles: 87 - $97.68, 93 - $120.34 10,000 miles: 87 - $976.81, 93 - $1,203.42 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 You'd need something like a 22-28% increase in fuel economy to break even when going to premium... based on some back-of-the-envelope calculations. Say regular is $2.10, and premium costs either $2.60 or $2.70. Base economy with regular is 25 mpg. Here's a visualization where the intersection of the red and yellow lines with the blue line indicate where the break-even point is for switching to premium: I'll probably buy it if it's recommended (as I do with the TLX), but not necessarily for the economy... Obviously a 22-28% increase in mpg is not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just checked with my calcs, and I would have to go from 24.15mpg to 31.75mpg to break even. 7.6mpg increase is hard to achieve.... 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I am not saying that premium vs regular is cost effective, but around here premium is $0.40 more sometimes I can find it for less. The spread seem to vary where one lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 You'd need something like a 22-28% increase in fuel economy to break even when going to premium... based on some back-of-the-envelope calculations. Say regular is $2.10, and premium costs either $2.60 or $2.70. Base economy with regular is 25 mpg. Here's a visualization where the intersection of the red and yellow lines with the blue line indicate where the break-even point is for switching to premium: I'll probably buy it if it's recommended (as I do with the TLX), but not necessarily for the economy... Obviously a 22-28% increase in mpg is not realistic. The delta here is ~$.30 between 87 and 93 octane, so less of a hit, but I'm used to 93 in the BP Subenwagen, so I really only deal with 87 in the low-use BD LGT. At that price, the B-E moves left a bit more. It's a turbo, and under heavy loading and towing, I feel the extra insurance is justified in an H4T. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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