SBT Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 3.0 is a high-compression engine. 3.6 is not. Both are sweet engines and have their strengths. Personally, I think the 3.0 would be the better "boosted" engine as the offset rods in the 3.6 may be a POF under high boost loads. I know there are several forged rods available for the 3.0, not sure the same can be said for the 3.6. Loved the handling of the Tribeca, and it is a great road trip vehicle, but really liked the power and revised 5EAT in the 08+ models. That 87 Octane was standard was a plus. Torque distribution at the crank is better aligned in the H6 then in the H4, it's just the physics of it. TCing an H4, which Subaru does well, gets you the power, but it also gets you more stress per cylinder than and H6 at near-equal HP/TQ ratings. Frankly, I'd rather have an uprated H6 in the Ascent, even with the HD-CVT, but Subaru is banking a lot on this new 2.4T to get the job done, while other Mfgrs are adding a V6 or V6TT as options in their midsize SUV models - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Frankly, I'd rather have an uprated H6 in the Ascent, even with the HD-CVT, but Subaru is banking a lot on this new 2.4T to get the job done, while other Mfgrs are adding a V6 or V6TT as options in their midsize SUV models I know you said you want to get it this year, but I personally feel it's too early to know if 2.4DIT is up to the task. I'll wait couple of years. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I know the 3.6 was capable of more power, but with more power comes ever crappier gas mileage lol. A couple of 5th gens have superchargers on their 3.6s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 I know you said you want to get it this year, but I personally feel it's too early to know if 2.4DIT is up to the task. I'll wait couple of years. Overall, I'm confident this will be a homerun out of the gate. But, I'm leaning toward waiting too. That's a lot of vehicle for a 4 cylinder, I4T Mazda's success notwithstanding. The performance and reliability metrics are a known unknown at this point. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Yeah, I wouldn't mind having the 3.6 be an available option in the Ascent, but I'm sure Subaru is counting down the days until they kill the engine off. I also think it'll be a large success. As an ambassador I've had quite a few people asking for information about it, especially fuel requirement (87 vs 91/93) and price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I don't understand the fuel thing, what is the cost difference $3-4 a tankful...with most Subaru vehicles you will get better performance from higher octane fuel just by virtue of the timing logic subaru uses for fuel economy and emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I don't understand the fuel thing, what is the cost difference $3-4 a tankful...with most Subaru vehicles you will get better performance from higher octane fuel just by virtue of the timing logic subaru uses for fuel economy and emissions. I agree with you and am fine with using premium for my two turbo sedans. But for most people, like my wife, extra power is not needed. Thus I sold my 04 FXT, and bought an NA Outback instead, over a year's span the cost difference in fuel really added up. Lets do some math for the Ascent... Where I live fuel prices are $3.00 for 93 and $2.30 for 87. That's $0.70 difference per gallon, over 19.3 gallons that's $13.51. While that doesn't break the bank per individual tank it does add up over time, which I'm now curious at myself so will run through the math... Subaru is claiming over 500 miles, since we don't know how much over, we'll just use that figure for math: 500 miles / 19.3 gallons = 25.9mpg. 15,000 Miles / 25.9mpg = 579.15 gallons per year At $2.30/gal = $1,332 At $3.00/gal = $1,737 Difference = $405/yr For $405 a year in savings, I think I would be fine with having ~20-30hp less for my family car, as long as the car has proper knock control and doesn't do long term damage with 87. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) I agree with you and am fine with using premium for my two turbo sedans. But for most people, like my wife, extra power is not needed. Thus I sold my 04 FXT, and bought an NA Outback instead, over a year's span the cost difference in fuel really added up. Lets do some math for the Ascent... Where I live fuel prices are $3.00 for 93 and $2.30 for 87. That's $0.70 difference per gallon, over 19.3 gallons that's $13.51. While that doesn't break the bank per individual tank it does add up over time, which I'm now curious at myself so will run through the math... Subaru is claiming over 500 miles, since we don't know how much over, we'll just use that figure for math: 500 miles / 19.3 gallons = 25.9mpg. 15,000 Miles / 25.9mpg = 579.15 gallons per year At $2.30/gal = $1,332 At $3.00/gal = $1,737 Difference = $405/yr For $405 a year in savings, I think I would be fine with having ~20-30hp less for my family car, as long as the car has proper knock control and doesn't do long term damage with 87. That is the key right there...its not just 20-30 hp the whole driving experience on two of our cars changed with 87 octane, shifting was lazier as well as poorer gas mileage. 2003 forester and 2007 Legacy 2.5i. Suppose its a 20 percent drop in fuel economy as well. Edited January 11, 2018 by FLlegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 That is the key right there...its not just 20-30 hp the whole driving experience on two of our cars changed with 87 octane, shifting was lazier as well as poorer gas mileage. 2003 forester and 2007 Legacy 2.5i. Suppose its a 20 percent drop in fuel economy as well. So effectively there's no saving running lower octane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 So effectively there's no saving running lower octane. That's exactly what I found with my '07 Tribeca. 91-octane was recommended, though we have 93 around here. I did multiple comparisons running 93 vs 87, and the cost was always very close to the same. I would get 2-3 mpg better with 93. The big difference was in power and driveability - it was so much more driveable on 93, so I always used 93. 87 just felt sluggish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 If your engine is tuned for 87, run 87. I believe any small gains in timing that you'd gain with 91/93 will be offset by the gas. 2 or 3 mpg over the tank is, at a 20 gallon tank completely on empty, around 40 to 60 miles. That's about 2 to 3 gallons of fuel. The cost difference for a tankful of 93 costs a lot more than 2 to 3 gallons of 87 octane as pointed out above. If you car is tuned to run 91/93, then I suggest you continue to run 91/93. While your car can probably get away with 87, the engine is probably retarding the timing to avoid detonation. If you have the capability to connect to a Bluetooth OBD and use an app like Torque to confirm your hp/torque, I'd be curious to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 That is the key right there...its not just 20-30 hp the whole driving experience on two of our cars changed with 87 octane, shifting was lazier as well as poorer gas mileage. 2003 forester and 2007 Legacy 2.5i. Suppose its a 20 percent drop in fuel economy as well. Yeah I experienced the same exact thing on my '12 Outback. Stock tune + 87 was pretty painful. I think it's because your losing 10-20whp when you only have about 130WHP. I think on a 200whp car, 20-30whp loss wont be as bad. I like that Mazda is listing premium and regular gas Horsepower now for the CX9. They are claiming 250bhp on premium and 227bhp on regular, that's 23bhp (~17whp loss for AWD). 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 The US' 87 AKI crap should be phased out. It's worrisome that some states are abandoning 93 AKI in favor of 91. I'd like to see 90 and 94 AKI gasoline only (would be roughly 95/98 RON like in most of the Europe). And no ethanol. Nice to dream, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Why is everyone going to 91 in non elevated states? I'm at 1,300ft and we only have 93, haven't seen 91 anywhere. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cww516 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Could be based on ethanol content or fuel blending for the area (emissions and such in cities). I'm at about 800 feet, and the only place near me with 93 octane is Costco. They're also the only place with ethanol in the premium, though. ...and, as I recently discovered, they're something like $.70 less a gallon for premium than pretty much everyone else. For $10 a tank, it may be worth the 10-15 minute drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Why is everyone going to 91 in non elevated states? I'm at 1,300ft and we only have 93, haven't seen 91 anywhere. I once asked my stepdad a similar question when he was VP of ... something ... at a C-Store Chain. It depends on what the local refineries use. His was the only company in Minnesota that consistently offered 93, and it was because they could get it from their local Koch refinery. They stopped offering it when Koch stopped wanting to do it. Ultimately, the cost of putting more premium in the premium got to be enough to make it cost prohibitive. But it's also a weird thing that depending on what's going on in general, those components will go up and down in price over time, so it may be a trend that swings the other way again in the future. Above all, since most automotive manufacturers just call for 91 for their premium fuel rated cars, the Stations and Refineries aren't always incentivized to do anything higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Add to it that in some places taxes are on volume of fuel, not percentage of price so the government would profit more from crap gasoline than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Why is everyone going to 91 in non elevated states? I'm at 1,300ft and we only have 93, haven't seen 91 anywhere. Could be based on ethanol content or fuel blending for the area (emissions and such in cities). I'm at about 800 feet, and the only place near me with 93 octane is Costco. They're also the only place with ethanol in the premium, though. ...and, as I recently discovered, they're something like $.70 less a gallon for premium than pretty much everyone else. For $10 a tank, it may be worth the 10-15 minute drive. In eastern TN where I live, it's basically 87, 89, 93; there are a few exceptions, but that's what I see. I drive down to Costco in GA (12 min) for 93 most of the time. But in central MO where my dad lives, 91 is the max, I can't find 93 to save my life. So I carry octane booster when I visit him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 In SC we always have 87, 89 and 93. Here in Upstate SC and even more so in the Low Country Coastal, where there's a lot of boating, you see much more 93 that's ethanol free - you pay a premium, usually $.15-.20 more per gallon, but the performance bump and MPG increase over E10 93 is worth it. E10 93 is going down again, post-hurricane season, and it's about $2.30/gallon - 100% 93 is less than $2.60/gallon. Wonder how Ascent production is ramping at Lafayette and when we might see some pricing numbers? - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Oh, I agree with you, if you can find a 0% ethanol version 93 you'll absolutely get more everything out of a gallon of gas. I think that's impossible to find here in NJ, except for one Sunoco place down the shore where they actually sell 100 octane (for like $2 more a gallon than premium!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Got to see it at the Washington Auto Show. I really liked it. Apparently the decision to offer the Touring with Shit Brown leather only isn't popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 For anyone wanting to see it, here's the touring schedule for the Ascent: 2017-2018 Car Shows Indianapolis International Auto Show December 26 through January 1. North American International Auto Show in Detroit, January 17-28. Houston Auto Show, January 24-28 Portland Auto Show, January 25-28 Washington Auto Show, January 26 through February 4 Philadelphia Auto Show, January 27 through February 4 Cincinnati Auto Show February 7-11 Motor Trend International Auto Show in Baltimore, February 8-11 Northeast Auto Show in Providence, February 9-11 Chicago International Auto Show, February 10-19 Dallas Auto Show, February 14-18 Pittsburgh International Auto Show, February 16-19 Cleveland International Auto Show, February 23 through March 4 Greater Milwaukee Auto Show, February 24 through March 4 Kansas City International Auto Show, February 28 through March 4 Twin Cities Auto Show, March 10-18 Columbus International Auto Show, March 15-19 Atlanta Auto Show, March 21-25 New York International Auto Show, March 30 through April 8 Denver International Auto Show, April 4-8 New Mexico Auto Show in Albuquerque, April 13-15 Austin Auto Show, April 20-22 source: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/new-subaru-ascent-coming-car-show-near-you-complete-list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 I'm planning to attend the Atlanta show in March, as that's the closest to me. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 That's only a couple hours from me, I might take my son to it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Thanks for posting. I had no idea the car can be viewed right here in D.C. Gonna go and check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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