Pilot1226

I decided to purchase the extended warranty (SAS Gold Plan) when I bought my OBXT, but it's the same idea. Yes, there are geographic areas that you're supposed to buy from but it does NOT have to be through your selling dealer. Call around. The SAS plan can be cancelled and you can be issued a refund so long as you do it before it's active. You pay a small administrative fee, I think around $50-75. If you're in the extended warranty portion, you'd get a pro-rated discount. FWIW, I paid around $1600 after sales tax for my 10y/100k/$100 deductible plan. I just wanted something to help protect me from catastrophic failure (CVT, engine, etc.) since this is my first turbo model. And there's a lot of tech on the interior that I didn't want to deal with. Basically, when the extended warranty expires, the car would be 10 years old. Either would have an Outback Hybrid by then, or drive it till it blows up since I don't think it would be worth that much at that point.

So, @bms231 - You can have your dealer change the bias for the climate from -3 to +3 in whole numbers. I've read posts on the OB forum that asked the dealer use the SST to change it to "0" and it was more "normal"... I have the same experience in my 21 OBXT with the climate being hot or freezing. The Forester had a Climate mode where you could specify "Eco" "Normal" "Comfort" and "Power" modes. The OBXT does not, so I infer that the Leg doesn't either. Unfortunately. It's been about 3 months with my OBXT. I'm starting to finally love it. When I first got it, I knew I wanted the extra power over the base engine. The infotainment took a couple weeks before I figured out what I wanted to do quickly. There's a learning curve. But once you learn it, you know. No hunting through submenus or anything like that. No CarPlay glitches since I started using a Genuine Apple cable. Everything working well. Have set the Cruise Control characteristics to "4 - Dynamic" per some suggestions on the OB forums, and it makes the car more fun to drive - since we don't get the SI-Drive option. It kind of feels like the sportier tip-in. Maybe the computer holds revs higher before doing the fake shifts.

Regardless of my reasons for doing so, would still like to monitor CVT temperature. Anyone have experience with the about app or Bluetooth dongle?

Hi all, Trying to see if I can use an app to measure the CVT temperature to help come up with a reasonable replacement interval. I have a 2021 Outback Onyx XT on order, but some difficulties lately: I am currently driving a 2019 Forester. My previous car was a 2011 Outback 2.5. The 2011 could access CVT temperature via an app like ActiveOBD for Subaru on Android, using my OBDLink LX with a cheapie Android phone I had on hand (with no data plan) The 2019 can not display the CVT temperature. Trying to find out if this is a Forester thing, an app thing, or an adapter thing. Since the Outback and Legacy are practically the same car, I figured I would ask around here too. The OB forum appears to be stumped or people don’t care at the moment since the vehicle refresh is still pretty new. If my fluid temperatures are under 180F I would consider running 100k intervals. Maybe even leave it alone if it stays at 160.

Congrats. I have an Outback Onyx XT on order myself. Edit - apparently I commented on this a few weeks ago. Congrats again either way. Sucks getting old and not remembering stuff I guess!

Welcome back. I still need the extra space with the kids and all our cargo so I went with an Outback Onyx. Likewise, very happy to be back!

There was a brief stop sale according to the STIS regarding the prop shaft. Appears to be an Ascent issue? WUI-94.

I’d rather they stop it. They’ve had some bad experiences with bad supply parts before. People don’t care that the “supply company” had inferior quality stuff. At the end of the day their Subaru had a problem.

Torque converter was changed from a throw out style to a washer style following some issues in the 2010-2012ish mode Outbacks. It was repaired on my former ride. My 2011 Outback had the TR690 and it was fine. No shift points. When I put my Forester into “S” mode it reminds me of it. It was a little torquey off the line and slow in the mid range. My Forester In I more is smoother all around. Much better tuning I think. Regarding the parasitic drag they removed some pulleys or something relating to when they formed the 580 from the 690.

There are a few cases on the Ascent forum about failures. There was a hunch that it was related to a September 2018 delivery last year which may have suggested a bad supplier part or something. Remember: There are tens of thousands of Ascents on the road now. A handful of CVT failures is a minuscule amount. This is what your warranty is for.

Right I was thinking the same thing. From my understanding if I had to put my finger on a sole weak spot it would probably be the valve body or solenoids as the fluid starts to gather gunk later in the service life. These contaminants from wear will eventually deposit somewhere not good. Regular fluid drain and fills help but there is a lot less particulates due to less moving parts and less wear and tear on the CVT compared to an AT setup. The problem I see is that there is no recommended CVTF interval for US spec cars and a lot of us are skeptical of lifetime. Personally I would just do it at the same time I do coolant changes. But I tend to not have my cars that long.

I’m in talks with Honda now regarding the electrical issues on the infotainment now that we are out of warranty. Curious what happens. Part of me wants the thing to blow up so I can tell my wife told ya so.

My understanding is that the planetary Toyota design has virtually no wear and tear. Whereas when the CVT chain slips for whatever reason, it grenades. Also it appears that nobody will fix the CVT. Which is potentially an $8000+ repair.

I believe they have the figure for the Crosstrek PHEV somewhere around 14 miles on 100% electric charge (which is up to like 55-65mph?) but this is probably under ideal circumstances where you aren't using heat or AC. It's a combination. Once you go over a certain percentage of throttle input, the gas engine kicks in (and will stay on for a few minutes to bring the ICE up to temperature). The way the two hybrid motors work is that they act as an assist. Fortunately the Fog Lights aren't as important here. My lights in the 2011 OB were kind of weak, but the LED's in the 2019 Forester are significantly brighter. (I also changed the OEM Fogs to a heavy-intensity bulb like Silverstars for more lumination) Cool, that makes me feel better. I read on the Ascent forum that they're using Honeywells, I forgot about that. Anyway, over on the Forester forums, I posted a little 6-month ownership/leasing recap of my Premium: https://www.subaruforester.org/threads/first-service-complete-a-6-month-retrospective-on-my-premium.804272/ @covertrussian If you're interested in it, I'd go see if you can test drive the Crosstrek PHEV. I was interested in it mostly just for the "technology demo" of the Subieyota mashup, and I think they did a great job this time - it's just a touch too small. It's also on the more expensive side - it was just shy of 40k and it only comes in one trim. The one thing that Toyota's got going for it is that they offer a hybrid variant for every trim - like on the RAV4. Unfortunately for Toyota, the RAV4 drives dull in my opinion. The PHEV at my local dealer was sold and therefore you couldn't go in it or drive it. I like that they're truthful and honor the "gtfo, it's someone else's car" approach. I found a copy of someone's driver's license in the Honda Pilot we bought back in 2016 - which means it had to happen between the date I left the deposit on the car and the date we picked it up. Wasn't happy about that, and the extra miles, but they tried to make it right by throwing in a few important accessories, like a free trailer hitch. $500 apology accepted. Looking quickly at the price differences between the top-tier Crosstrek and Forester, I wouldn't be surprised when or if they offer a Forester Hybrid that it might kiss $40-45k. Which, again, might be worth it anyway if I'm about to drop close to $40k on a Touring Outback anyway. It's tough comparing the Outback XT and a non-existent unicorn Forester Hybrid. I'll get my damn unicorn one day. And no, not the turbo Baja stickshift. lol.

Actually, no. I had a pretty long chat with my wife a few months ago before I ended up leasing a 2019 Forester, and because she already owns a third-row SUV we decided we really didn't need 2 of them. The Foz is pretty cool, but there've been a few times I've wanted the longer profile of the Outback cargo area. I just love the efficiency of the hybrid - taking my almost constant city braking and changing it into energy for propulsion, and being able to plug it in at night and at work to stay in electric mode and save wear-and-tear on the ICE. I imagine the brake pads last longer, too. I agree with you - I love the idea of the planetary CVT because that's been established in the Prius line for over a decade now... My biggest concern about the hybrid is that the Crosstrek hybrid has no spare tire, and I drive through a pretty dumpy city on my way to work, so that's the last thing I want. I'm sure eventually we'll find an Outback Hybrid, but I was hoping for a Foz Hybrid at the midcycle refresh. There's rumors abound already for some type of mid-SUV type of hybrid coming in 2021/2022, but I don't know if they mean Calendar Year or Model Year. It would seem that if the Fozzy was the next Hybrid target - since they already offer one in Europe and Japan apparently - that would be in line with the Model Year 2021 Foz, and the 2022 would be more in line with the Leggy / OB. Now, the Crosstrek is about a full second faster for 0-60 on the Hybrid. But the 2019 Foz does it in over 9 seconds; the 2018 did it in the 8's, and the 2018 XT did it in under 7. That's a big difference. I wonder if they did this for longevity of the CVT? 9+ seconds is an eternity merging onto the highway. Around down I sure don't feel like I'm low on power... but I guess I'm only getting up to 35-40 in the city before it's another red light. For me I can't see myself keeping my Foz at the end of the lease because: 1. I got a Premium and miss some of the Limited features I had 2. I want ventilated seats 3. I drive around 85+% city, so a hybrid is perfect for me. 4. Auto lane centering! on the newer models. If I had a giant driveway I'd probably get that Ascent, but because I'm in a suburb outside of NYC, real estate and land is stupid expensive. As a result I have a 4 car driveway that must have had 4 "sedans" in mind when they made it (before we bought it), because I would only have about 3" between the two cars if I parked them on the extreme sides of the driveway. I'm curiously watching the new Outback XT's also, but I'm concerned about the 2.4T engine's long-term ownership as I've never had a turbo car before and everyone seems to complain about having blown the turbo around 100k. I could see myself going to a Fozzy Hybrid in 2021 MY when my lease is up, but if there's no spare tire I'd have to put run-flats on that sucker which seems counter intuitive to hybrids. If no Fozzy Hybrid I'd have to really toss and turn about either going for an OB Touring or Touring XT or going for a Limited or Touring Foz at the refresh... I'm trying to keep track on my phone in iNotes about how often I need that extra cargo space. It's only been like 10 times in the 6 months of "leasing" it, but it's a pain to switch with the Mrs. for her Honda Pilot because of parking permits/decals at our workplace.

Yup. I suppose I can wish for a hybrid mid cycle refresh, right?

This was one of the reasons my wife wanted a third-row SUV a few years ago - if anyone had to sit in the middle seat between the two car seats, you literally could not put your arms down, you had to hold them out over the back of the seat tops... lol.

I'm torn. The Legacy is still too small for me at this point in my life (coaching two kids' baseball & soccer teams and anything else that has to get lugged around), but the Outback seems good. I leased a 2019 Foz earlier this year but I do feel that the wagon aspect was more suited to me, and I liked the deeper cargo hold compared to the taller on e on the Foz. I'm toying with the idea of breaking the lease early (since the residual of the car is still high, they're able to come very close to a break even buyout of it which means they'd pay for the remaining payments and buyout price)... to look into the Gen6 Outbacks. The XT has no default moonroof, so the extra headroom might be nice for me... Otherwise I might end up going for the Touring XT because it's only an extra thousand or two more than the Legacy and fully loaded. With Ventilated Seats! But, I think I'd want the turbo either way. The 2.5 is great in the Forester, but every once and a while I just want a little more power. Or, because I drive city most of the time, might just have to hold on for a hopefully hybrid variant. Regarding the knobs and dials - I agree. My wife's Honda Pilot has a touch screen interface for volume, etc. I'm a little hesitant that the CLIMATE controls are all on the computer - one point of failure means multiple system failures - but I do believe you can always use voice recognition instead of going through all the menus... As long as I have a physical radio tuning button/dial and a volume button/dial I should be good. I keep my Forester in "Auto 65" mode all the time anyway, except I will use MAX A/C mode when I first start up for a few minutes. Regarding pricing, it seems the biggest jump is going from a Limited to a Limited XT.

They definitely removed the spare in the Crosstrek hybrid. You obviously are in trouble here if you get a flat. Hopefully you’re equipped with run flats. The auto start on my Forester looks the same as a regular battery. It’s the internals they are different. DriverFocus can be turned off but generally speaking I think there are a few cases of it not liking sunglasses on the Foz forum. Dual mode x-mode just gives you a deep snow or mud option. Yeah low beams are shared LEDs now. My concern is obviously the removal of the spare. Onyx edition 2020 Outback has a full size spare!!

But the average people driving the Ascent don't care about 93 octane or maximum performance. We are certainly in the minority here. I'm curious if the power is being limited intentionally as to not grenade the CVT as covertrussian alluded to... Perhaps there's longer-term goals at play here? After all, they take a lot of pride saying "98% of Outbacks are still on the road after 10 years"

I can't seem to remember what I have posted here due to my involvement in other Subie forums, but I can put together some things I noticed I like/dislike/miss from my last year of research... I think the thing that draws me to the Ascent so much is that deep black front grille. The Foz has an option for a "Sport" grille, but it's still chromed out. I think the `19 Legacy and Outback have an option for a non-chromed out grille, and I like that appearance. I'm not against the bling, but it just seems to make the black pop a little more without it. The 19 Foz was a great upgrade for me. I like the BSM, but I do miss a few features, things you might want to consider if they're important to you: Again, Konoji style DRL's (the C-Lights/Boomerangs) are missing in the sub-Limited trims. I didn't know this, and it's nobody's fault but my own for "rushing" since I was playing beat-the-clock. I would like to have rear vent controls. From what I understand even the upper models just give me a "temperature" control but maybe not a speed control? My kids sometimes get a little woozy in the back seat on longer trips or stop-and-go traffic, so I usually will keep the A/C blasting in the back at like 62 on full speed, while my wife & I will have something different for the front. Again, this is a feature I didn't know I wanted until I didn't have it. With the kids, I think leather would have been a better option for me. Definitely missing a zoom-zoom engine option. I think I'm going to have to go back to an Outback for the XT. I agree with you about the rear styling of the Ascent. Something about the brake/tail lights seems a little "wtf?" - but I wouldn't mind if they had the "Foz" style lobster claws make their way into the Ascent for the mid-cycle refresh. I'm also a little wtf about fog lights, apparently you can get the LED foggies with the Sport trim, but can't get them even via upgrade in Touring or Limited... wtf? Other things that I like or miss and didn't know I liked them: 1. Fozzy Touring side mirrors tilt down automatically in reverse. It would save me a few seconds each time since I like to back in when I park at work and home. (In case of Zombie Apocalypse, it'd be a quicker getaway) 2. Homelink built into mirror. My Foz was already equipped with the auto dimming mirror with compass, but I didn't want to spend $400 on just adding a Homelink button to it. Lesson learned for next time with factory order expected. 3. Footwell Light. Again, would be cool to add with FO for $200ish, but don't want to spend $400 for the dealer to do it with labor costs. 4. Sport Grille option mentioned above, maybe. 5. Side Mirror Turn Signals. Not sure why, just seem to like the way they look, safer if someone's in your blind spot since they see your intentions. 6. Black is good, but I think I'd want Magnetite next time. My wife's Honda Pilot is gray (Modern Steel Metallic) but it's a ligher shade. I was skeptical of two gray cars in driveway... but comparing the two it's ligher and should be okay. Expecations: Subaru likes to add one new feature to one or two trims, I think because they're trying to contain any bugs before they roll it out fleet wide. I appreciate their approach. I like to think that the LED Foggies will be rolled out fleet wide soon. Likewise, with the non-SRH LED headlights. Not sure what they'll do reference the Konoji's since they seem to not be compatible. Subie likes to use the non SRH LED low beams as DRL's at a lower intensity it seems. But there is just something about those Konoji's that looks damn near predatory in the dark. Love it. Paddle Shifters could have been handy one or two times in the snow. I had these on my Outback, was useful to use it to slow rather than brake down hills etc. *No substitute for winter tires thought. Paddles only on Touring & Sport. It's funny, the range is roughly the same as my Outback was despite better MPG, since it has a smaller tank. I fill up once a week regardless of fuel, but I'm usually around 1/4 to 1/3 tank at that point. The base speaker system is pretty good for the "default", but I would still have liked the Option to get the HK Audio upgrade. This would require Navi in the Touring (which I'd never, ever use) or in the Sport trim, requires RAB+PRG package. Summary: Everything's fun when it's new and shiny. Everything "mechanical" breaks at some point, so adding more complexity is a little unsettling since it's one more thing to break. You could argue this for a turbo too, since the NA is less "complicated" of a machine... Unfortunately you can't just a la carte the options you want, and you often have to get them in a package. Given everything I'm seeing now, and given that they're still working out some issues with the Ascent, minor ones albeit, I'm thinking that my #1 choice going forward will be one of the Outback XT trims. Because of how I'm feeling about the lack of leather I'm probably going to lean towards a Limited unless they're some type of show stopping feature in the Touring only, but I just don't want the bling. Also have been disabling the auto start stop feature lately. Hopefully will know more going forward. The Foz is a great car, but I don't see it being my "forever" car, and not just because of the minor things I omitted when I purchased it. Flashing back to my original response to @covertrussian I'll be happy to update you about the 16 Pilot we have. It's capable but like was mentioned above, just feels kind of dull. It's obviously a people mover. Newer ones are better designed in my opinion, minor tweaks and such. Just keep in mind if you go with the Ascent, and you enjoy it, the $300-400 you spend on a DI cleaning every 5-10 years is still cheaper than the old timing belt service used to be. And the DI won't grenade your engine, it'll just reduce performance and probably throw a code. And also, with the CVT, I really think Subie's going to have you covered. If you are really, really worried, consider an extended warranty. I believe you can get a 0 deductible 8y/100k mile Gold Plus for under $2k if you shop around... so that'd be around $200 per year for 10 years for the peace of mind. TLDR If you truly don't need the people capability, I'd consider the Outback XT. If you do need the extra space for people, I'd probably go for an Ascent Limited 8p, just because I'd want the ability to haul 8.

I had a lot of reasons for wanting to trade in my 2011 Outback with the CVT, but the transmission wasn’t one of them. I did a ton of research before leasing my Forester and I still follow the threads. I’ve been able to surmise: If you drive hilly or tow, you should change the fluid around every 30k. I believe the manual specifies some weird kilometer to mile conversion like 24500. Towing fluid change requirement is right out of your owner manual in a sub note. Aside from that there is no fluid interval for the US. Subie Canada does have a 60k CHANGE interval because of temperature stress in the fluid. Look, I drive really urban city. Flat, but still stop and go traffic in NJ. We are talking lights every 100 yards that are staggered to prevent speeding. I think I was a good candidate for wear and tear. The torque converter failed on my Outback but that was a known issue and replaced free at 85k miles and nearly 7 years of ownership. There is a newsletter called TechTips by Subaru for the service techs that describes how techs have actually caused problems by examining fluid. I believe the service inspection at 30/60 just is to look at the housing and confirm no leaks. I do not believe they examine the fluid for fragments or discoloration. Again if you want, change it at 60.

@covertrussian Thinking that regular fluid changes will keep the fluid free of varnishes etc. Maybe 60k? I know Subie Canada has a 60k interval to replace CVTF, not just inspect it every 30k like in the USA... Canada says it's because of a severe climate.

Local lifetime warranty is sketchy. The one in Lakewood NJ where I bought my Outback years ago had one but you had to do all the service at their shop, on time, (not a problem) and you also had to do all their "recommended" services, like where they add Techron to your gas tank for $125. So, in the long run, I said screw it and just went with my local dealer, myself, or a local shop for minor/routine maintenance. Edit: Just read @dgoodhue above - seems like that's the "gotcha" there. Honestly, don't lose sleep over it. I put 95k on my Outback CVT, I know some that are above 200k on the original fluid even. If you were that concerned, maybe change the CVTF as part of your routine 60k interval service along with the plug jobs. Law of diminishing returns will apply, because of what gets stuck in the torque converter and valve body, you can't get 100% of the fluid out. But, if you're truly going crazy, change the fluid for the ~$300 they'll charge you for peace of mind. I figure that Subaru will again do a complimentary transmission extension in a few years to bring everyone to 10 years or unlimited miles like they did for many other models. That'll give me at least 10 years of driving since I do under 10k a year. Don't lose sleep over it. Not worth it. Also, even 4-speed and 5-speed and even that Honda ZF 9-speed transmission fail and grenade the whole thing, too. Nothing's impervious. But, from a fanboy perspective, I love the planetary CVT that is in the new Crosstrek PHEV - it's the Toyota design that's been in Priuses for a long time. It's pretty good in terms of an engineering perspective against wear-and-tear. Also, while the Idemisu OEM oil that Subie uses doesn't have all values published, I think the NOACK value is probably the most important you're looking for. I'm going to just use dealer oil. If Subaru somehow sees DI blowback is a problem down the road, they seem like they're the type of company that very well might warranty the work and reimburse people for out of pocket expenses. Not a given, but if I'm using cheapo oil, they'll probably give a bit of pushback on that. Also considering doing the "Subaru Carbon Clean" or "Upper Engine Cleaner" optional service every 12k miles or 12 months for prevention. Won't save me from the DI design, but hopefully will help.

In the grand scheme I’m not really worried about the CVT. They’ve been around for 10 years and while some failures have happened I’m confident that they’ll cover me with a good will discount or something in the future. The CVT in general gets a lot of bad press because of the Nissan debacle so I think the free extended warranty is just to give people peace of mind.