2019 Subaru Ascent Mid-sized SUV - True 3-row vehicle

[FLlegacy]

Not to mention the less than stellar h6 gas mileage anyway.

 

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[covertrussian]

I'm curious about the injection type on the new 2.4... I really don't want to have to walnut blast the DI every 60k... it would be great if they borrowed some of the Toyota tech to do Port + Direct Injection to avoid that whole drama. And if it runs off 87 or not. The Turbo 4 costs more to run in fuel costs than the 3.6 does if it requires 91+...

 

I agree they've probably overbuilt it - and that's a good thing.

 

I sure hope they do the port injection too. It would almost be a step backwards if they wont, it's almost 2018...

 

It's a little unfair to say that NA's don't require 91+ too, they all seem knock on 87 and IAM gets reduced. My friends 3.0 even knocks on 93 and IAM is always less then 1.0. I rarely see a turbo Subarus, that are properly running, having less then 1.0 IAM.

[Pilot1226]

Oh, I agree that modern engines will retard the timing to counter pre-ignition. I'm remaining optimistic for the PI+DI, but if they don't have PI, I'm not buying a turbo. A trivial reason, certainly, but I just don't want to deal with BS service every 60k. It's like the "new timing belt" service.

 

However, that being said, Subaru seems to be the type of company, that if they recognize there's issues with DI from carbon buildup, they just might either do the maintenance complimentary for the first time (or to a pre-set mileage, etc.), or reimburse you if you do it.

 

I know of the article you're speaking of about Japan saying it's 87. Again, I'm optimistic, but until Subaru confirms any specifications on their website, as far as I'm concerned, it's still not set in stone.

[TwoTone]

Little disappointed to find out it wont be at the Washington DC autoshow.

[ehsnils]

I don't understand why some people are stuck on a cylinder count instead of actual performance.

 

One thing that more cylinders can offer is a smoother running engine.

 

And who don't like the sound of a H6 or Straight-6 engine! http://www.bedug.com/pics/smiley/drool.png

 

But from economy point of view fewer cylinders offers less moving parts and lower friction.

[Pilot1226]

Except the turbo has quite a few parts under high stress, right?

[FLlegacy]

Except the turbo has quite a few parts under high stress, right?

 

Depends on your right foot doesn't it?

[meaux]

Except the turbo has quite a few parts under high stress, right?

Not to mention the Heat it has to deal with and the extra plumbing...

[FLlegacy]

Not to mention the Heat it has to deal with and the extra plumbing...

 

The low mount turbo doesn't bring as much heat into the engine compartment as the side mount of the older generations. And given the increased dimensions of an H6 they are about equal in how much space and heat they produce in the given area.

[SaltySnow]

Any idea if there will be an electric / hybrid version of the Ascent?

 

If am not going to get an H6, I may as well settle for an economical hybrid/electric.

[covertrussian]

Except the turbo has quite a few parts under high stress, right?

 

That's true, extra turbo stress is a concern for towing, but I think CVT will give out before a modern turbo engine will .

 

The low mount turbo doesn't bring as much heat into the engine compartment as the side mount of the older generations. And given the increased dimensions of an H6 they are about equal in how much space and heat they produce in the given area.

 

I wouldn't worry about that heat in engine compartment, it's fairly trivial when your moving. The bigger issue is with in engine bay intercoolers, they just heat soak too much in general. If you can move the intercooler outside of the bay and have an intake that sucks in outside air, engine bay can stay stay pretty warm without many issues.

[FLlegacy]

I believe the idea of the Global platform is to produce a hybrid powertrain that will transfer to the other models, I wouldn't expect one right away at least not in the Ascent.

 

Settle...lol. For a turbo 4 that makes both more power and more torque than the outgoing H6. I guess if you want to call that settling.

[covertrussian]

Settle...lol. For a turbo 4 that makes both more power and more torque than the outgoing H6. I guess if you want to call that settling.

 

No kidding, I've been waiting for a Turbo SUV for a long time. I was pretty mad about them doing away with XT models for Outbacks. Been thinking about doing a EJ255 swap on my 2012 .

 

The only thing that would make the Ascent perfect would be a proper 6 speed. But that's never gonna happen

[SBT]

Any idea if there will be an electric / hybrid version of the Ascent?

 

If am not going to get an H6, I may as well settle for an economical hybrid/electric.

 

The Subaru Global Platform is designed to support typical gas/diesel power, hybrid and electric-only.

 

Would love to see this come in a Subaru H4 TD/hybrid version. Excellent diesel mileage, lots of low-end grunt, and hybrid electric augmentation.

 

That said, Subaru has been quick to point out that only the Ascent gas version is being implemented at this time.

[SBT]

I'm wondering if Subaru has considered the H6 as a DIT with cylinder deactivation - similar to other brands. I know that the 3.6 H6/HD-CVT combo is getting excellent mileage with the Outback and Legacy models. Could imagine it would get decent mileage with that combo in the Ascent.

 

But, like every (nearly every?) brand, the move is toward 4 cylinder turbos to meet CAFE standards, and I suspect that that's why the H6 is done - at least for now. Such a great engine and would be perfect in the Ascent, even in NA form.

[FLlegacy]

I don't see cylinder deactivation saving nearly as much fuel as a smaller engine does.

[Brady]

But, like every (nearly every?) brand, the move is toward 4 cylinder turbos to meet CAFE standards, and I suspect that that's why the H6 is done - at least for now.

 

And that the EZ is a nearly 20 year old platform. It would cost more money to develop a new platform for a more modern 6 cylinder motor. It's probably much cheaper for Subaru to continue developing variations of the same 4 cylinder platform.

[SBT]

Likely not - seems more a marketing gimmick, because you still have rotating mass and inertia to contend with.

 

But a H4 TD and hybrid - I could get behind that unless it's Subaru's minimalist attempt at "hybrid" by embedding a small motor internal to the CVT, then not so much.

 

There may be room in the SGP for a powerful HO electric motor behind/between the engine and symmetrical AWD transaxle - because it's longitudinal, this has always been a long pole in the tent where Subaru's AWD system and hybrid tech is concerned, and I don't see them going with a transverse system any time soon.

[FLlegacy]

Likely not - seems more a marketing gimmick, because you still have rotating mass and inertia to contend with.

 

But a H4 TD and hybrid - I could get behind that unless it's Subaru's minimalist attempt at "hybrid" by embedding a small motor internal to the CVT, then not so much.

 

There may be room in the SGP for a powerful HO electric motor behind/between the engine and symmetrical AWD transaxle - because it's longitudinal, this has always been a long pole in the tent where Subaru's AWD system and hybrid tech is concerned, and I don't see them going with a transverse system any time soon.

I would think the awd system would turn into a hybrid system with electric rear drive. In my opinion that is the most logical path.

 

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[cww516]

Likely not - seems more a marketing gimmick, because you still have rotating mass and inertia to contend with.

 

But a H4 TD and hybrid - I could get behind that unless it's Subaru's minimalist attempt at "hybrid" by embedding a small motor internal to the CVT, then not so much.

 

There may be room in the SGP for a powerful HO electric motor behind/between the engine and symmetrical AWD transaxle - because it's longitudinal, this has always been a long pole in the tent where Subaru's AWD system and hybrid tech is concerned, and I don't see them going with a transverse system any time soon.

 

 

From a packaging standpoint, that's about all they can do with it. If you wanted to put something in the engine bay, you'd either have to hang it off the front of the engine (bad for weight distribution) or put it on top of the engine with some sort of chain box down to the crank (higher hood profile, raised center of gravity). You can't really put anything bigger onto the back of the input shaft without making the transmission case larger, which would probably cut into front seat legroom. If they designed up a new case from scratch that allowed the electric motor to bolt on to a pad on the outside rather than being shoehorned into an existing case, that'd give them a way to put a little fatter motor on there while fitting into the same trans tunnel footprint.

 

I could see that little motor in the CVT paired with a little Atkinson cycle magic as being a decent combination, although that would probably be better-suited to something that doesn't need a lot of extra grunt for towing. The electric motor would help it get off the line, and the gas engine would keep it moving more efficiently.

Edited December 18, 2017 by cww516

[SBT]

Would something along the lines of a high-torque permanent magnet hysteresis synchronous (thin) motor between the engine and the trans work?

 

The engine would be moved slightly forward and direct-coupled to the PMHSM which would then accept the trans input shaft. Obviously a need for a PWM type controller to manage engage/disengage functions, but seems doable IMO.

 

Looking at Toyota's system, they have an external electrical motor that co-locates next to its coupler which sits between the engine and trans in their HEV systems.

 

In a CVT, this would easily fit in the space normally reserved for the clutch hydraulic system - somewhat between the brake booster and the engine dogbone, or on the opposite side, where our traditional turbo location is. Motor would still have to move forward slightly to accommodate, but in something the size of the Ascent, this should be doable.

[FLlegacy]

Would something along the lines of a high-torque permanent magnet hysteresis synchronous (thin) motor between the engine and the trans work?

 

The engine would be moved slightly forward and direct-coupled to the PMHSM which would then accept the trans input shaft. Obviously a need for a PWM type controller to manage engage/disengage functions, but seems doable IMO.

 

Looking at Toyota's system, they have an external electrical motor that co-locates next to its coupler which sits between the engine and trans in their HEV systems.

 

In a CVT, this would easily fit in the space normally reserved for the clutch hydraulic system - somewhat between the brake booster and the engine dogbone, or on the opposite side, where our traditional turbo location is. Motor would still have to move forward slightly to accommodate, but in something the size of the Ascent, this should be doable.

I don't think in that size and location you would get a motor capable of achieving much not without a complicated cooling system. That's about the size of most stop/start motors.

 

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[SubieDriver]

Isn't that the design Subaru proposed with the B9 Scrambler concept? It was similar to the Honda hybrid of that time, with the thin electric motor attached to the flywheel.

[SubieDriver]

From Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_B9_Scrambler

 

The automobile features a 2.0 litre flat-4 cylinder hybrid powertrain, which Subaru calls the Sequential Series Hybrid Electric Vehicle (SSHEV). In the SSHEV, the 134 hp (100 kW) electric motor alone is used to move the car up to 80 km/h (50 mph), at which point the 138 hp (103 kW) gasoline engine takes over.[1] Under 80 km/h (50 mph), the gasoline engine may be used to charge the battery or under heavy acceleration.[2] It is Subaru's first hybrid powertrain,[3] and Subaru president Kyoji Takenaka stated that existing conventionally-powered Subaru models required "no modification" to install the SSHEV.[2]

The ride height can be adjusted through a self-leveling air suspension.[3] Front and rear-facing cameras, coupled with a radar system are used in an intelligent cruise control and lane departure warning system.[4]

 

"existing conventionally-powered Subaru models required "no modification" to install the SSHEV"

[FLlegacy]

It looks to me like the electric motor is bolted in between the end of the transmission and the tailhousing on that concept. Which would make more sense than in the bellhousing.