Sydney Motor Show - Liberty GT "Tuned By STi"

[BrownBoy]

Crucial in the Spring

 

whoa. That's the one thing that DOES deserve it's own thread. Any more details?

[PhilT]

and you know how it fits because you have seen a picture?

 

And you know it doesn't fit cos you saw the same picture ?

 

This could go on for weeks

[PGT]

And you know it doesn't fit cos you saw the same picture ?

 

This could go on for weeks

 

true, but my point was about what's available today. Crucial announced springs for the LGT last spring, then retracted.

 

Back to the topic....STi cans. They are nice and are buds in Oz are lucky to get them as options. We don't have the choice, except to import them sight unseen. The soundclips released by Subaru aren't anything to go on either, as they are on a JDM 2.0L twinscroll with equal length headers. In other words, nothing in common with what we get here.

[PhilT]

Agreed, and I wish they were an option here too, I like to choose from as many products as possible.

 

My original point, albeit somewhat sarcastic, was the fact that as soon as someone says "STi" we all go gaga, as though it's the second coming. When in fact their products may or may not be any better quality than anyone else's.

 

I guess cars are a fashion statement in themselves, so just as people pay silly money for designer clothes, there will be the same attitude towards car parts.

[PGT]

<---- Sucker. I bought the STi pitch stopper and felt nothing different

[agctr]

Adam, there was talk of STi arranging tours of the local Melbourne warehouse/factory where they will be making the finishing touches to our GTs. While you are down there can you ask them if this is a real possibility? I hear that they have some of the "tuned by STi" GTs on the deck here now. Would love to see them.... (I'm sure everybody else would too....) Maybe the ticket for admission is that you need to place an order first.... I'm sure they dont want an invasion of 'tyre-kickers'!

 

How are you mate, been a while.......

 

Yeah there are a few units here in Melbourne now which is great but as for the tour, u have more chance breaking into Fort Knox than u do seeing these units being built. I know that Darren and I have both put our hands up to get in there for a special viewing and no further information has been forth coming, meaning it wont be happening until the day of delivery. My order is in and so is Darren's and still we have been issued with a "Ticket To Ride".

Ada///M.

 

Will keep u posted if this changes.

[agctr]

name another dual-tip that has factory fit. Oh yeah....you can't.

 

LMAO @ Dan...........

 

That was seriously fantastic........ almost fell of my chair ......

Ada///M.

[agctr]

Hi lads,

 

I emailed the National Marketing Manager at Subaru with some questions today and received some answers, some of which you may/may not already know, but thought you may be interested anyway. He seemed an extremely helpful guy.......

 

 

And also received the following bit of sales schmooze, which made me feel better anyway

Thank you for your interest in Subaru and for your decision to purchase, the GT tuned by STI is without doubt the most superb Liberty yet developed and is sure to give you enormous satisfaction for years to come. WA's Dean Herridge (of Subaru Rally team Australia) was involved in performance testing in Australian conditions at Eastern Creek and enthused upon getting out of the car that this was the best Subaru he had ever driven.

I'll be sure to post if I hear any more info.

 

Cheers,

Rick

 

Now where is our good friend Jon, Im sure he will DISPUTE any of this information. Just to give u an IDEA Jon, Eastern Creek is in Sydney, thats Sydney Australia and not STi in Japan, just wanted that to be clear.

 

Yeah I know Im just being smart but hey, it takes TWO TO TANGO ... baby.

Ada///M.

[rfd425]

I'm not Jon, and I don't dispute any of this, although I think it's highly unlikely that Mr. Herridge would have said "it's a piece of crap" even if he thought so. I'm sure he knows which side his bread's buttered on.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited about this model, even though it's half a world away. Here in the USA we get the (relatively) ridiculous "Spec B" model, and you get a true STi-tuned model, with just about everything you could ask for except brakes.

 

How did this model originally come about? Did Subaru Australia approach STi and ask if it would be possible to put something like this together? Or did STi pick Australia as the testbed for a true STi Legacy/Liberty?

 

Also, what is the relative price difference between what one could purchase a regular Liberty GT for, and what one will be able to purchase the STi-tuned Liberty for? I mean actual purchase price, not necessarily MSRP. For example, here, Spec B's seem to be going for MSRP, whereas regular LGT's can be bought for ~$3,000 below MSRP, which means the true price difference is around $8K, rather than the list price difference of $5K. If you give me prices in Aussie dollars, I can do the conversion. Thanks.

[agctr]

Hi Adam, etc

 

 

Of course, the Brembos would need to be modified for Australian Conditions......

 

Darryl (Modified for Australian Conditions)

 

Your a bad bad man Darryl, but I LOVE YR STYLE.......... LMAO. Modified LOL.....

 

Yeah the group buy thing could be worth a look, I will have a chat to a few contacts that I know and see what I can russle up.

Ada///M.

[agctr]

Thanks for yr comments rfd425, I agree that Herridge would have said positive things but unsure if the words would have been forced out of him, from the way I read it personally, I see them as pretty glowing. I think most ppl are pretty excited about this STi regardless if its being built here in Australia or anywhere else in the world. This honestly is the first time STi has really stepped out of his comfort zone to really offer their hand. Yes we all know about STi in Europe and their association with PRODRIVE, but PRODRIVE is an already established customer which has its own clientele base.

 

STi Australia has been used by Japan on several occasions to sell limited runs of WRX's with STi tunes, this has had great success. Two years ago, STi Japan imported into Australia a Liberty/LegacySTi for members of certain clubs to view and gain feedback on. From this feedback and constant hounding from ppl such as myself, Subaru Australia have decided to take the bull by the horns and take a big gamble of producing 300 limited units.

 

But my fellow Americans PLEASE DO NOT FEEL LEFT OUT, because this realistically is the same process that we went thru for years. So you getting the SpecB is really another way that Subaru Japan and Subaru America are testing the waters to see what the market will really bear. I do hope that the Liberty/Legacy STi beccomes a world vehicle as it will lessen the price and give great R&D to other global markets so it has to be a win win situation for everyone, maybe this is one step in that process.

 

The price difference between the Limted GT & SpecB is around the 8KAUD mark, now this sounds alot but what you have to remember is the difference between the units, one is a 2.0L and the other is a 3.0L hence that is where a lot of the $$$ are chewed up. The difference between the 3.0R SpecB and the 2.0L LibertySTi is the backing of STi, the engine size, the transmission and the goodies that come with, backed by a 3YR warranty. The difference between the 2 is roughly 4KAUD off the top of my head. These are pretty rough numbers but to get a LibertySTi over the others, its quite a step up, but with a limited production run, it should help to retain the overall value and resale of the STi.

 

So what does all this mean in USD, about 4 - 7K difference in price.

Ada///M.

[redrobin]

Hi Guys,

 

Just been thinking about Jon and all,

 

In quite a few global industries Australia is used as a testbed for new technology or products and it isn't actually that surprising that STi Japan and / or FHI would spend money and resources on us.

 

The problems that some of our US friends have is they can't see past the size of their market and feel that if things won't happen for them, why would they do it for us down here in the boondocks.

 

The fact is, Australia is an island continent, we are world class, western, intelligent, educated, sophisticated, well paid by world standards and technology oriented.

 

In short, because of all of the above we are an ideal test bed, not too small to be usefull, not big enough to cause problems if things don't work correctly, smart enough to fix, re-engineer, re-program or whatever, big enough to have the facilities do anything that needs to be done, etc.

 

I can name hunderds of US and European countries that use Australia as a test market for just these reasons, and it's not because we are so small we don't matter, it's because they respect our abilities to be able to use and then offer intelligent comment on how, when, why or whatever needs to be fixed, modified, etc.

 

It should be no supprise to those who know the capabilities of Australia and our engineering, etc, that Subaru Japan and STi would put money into small production runs for us. I just makes good sense for them.

 

Oh yeah, in a previous life, I was the Deputy Chief Economist for a Bank. Which Bank? Well, yes.....................

 

Sorry Jon, but you are out of your depth.

 

 

Darryl (Modified for Australian Conditions)

[rfd425]

Interesting; perhaps Subaru and STi see Australia as a good "test market" for gauging worldwide demand, much as certain cities here are considered good barometers for gauging demand in the USA overall.

 

If I read your post correctly, the price difference between the GT and the STi model is roughly 12K AUD (add 8K from the GT to the Spec B, and another 4K from the Spec B to the STi). This would equate to roughly US$8,800. That is pricey, but not outrageous for what you are getting.

 

The other part of my question is, do those prices accurately reflect what the cars are actually sold for? For example, in the USA, the list price of a GT Limited is ~$30K, but the price can easily be negotiated down to ~$27K or less. The Spec B lists for $35K, but since it is a limited edition, it is much more difficult to negotiate the price down. Therefore, while the list price difference is ~$5K, the real-world price difference is ~$8K. So, I am wondering if the price difference of AUD12K (US$8,800) between the GT and STi is the true real-world price difference. Thanks.

[rfd425]

In quite a few global industries Australia is used as a testbed for new technology or products and it isn't actually that surprising that STi Japan and / or FHI would spend money and resources on us.

Ahh, just what I was alluding to in my near-simultaneous post.

[agctr]

Give me a few hours rfd425 and I will come back and answer the 2nd part of yr question when I have a chance to think about it and Im not rushing as Im heading out the door.

 

Darryl you speak a lot of sense my good man for both sides of the fence too. Australia is used to test a lot of units from abroad..... and just refresh my memory Darryl but where did the US get their current GTO from ........ hmm curious, a little company on a stick Island called Holden if my memory serves me correctly.

Ada///M.

[fan42025]

Penny-pinching is the only reason I can think of, but I dont think they want to admit to it! Same reason the Brembos dropped off the specification. I think it is a damn shame, I would have happily paid the price for factory fitment of both. (aftermarket just doesnt make any sense). No matter how good the car is there will always be something "missing"....

 

It seems Subaru Australia don't seem to have the confidence to go all the way. No doubt some marketing survey says that Joe average will only pay so much for a Subaru and no more.... I think they would be surprised. If they start treating their customers like luxury car owners, then they may be able to charge much closer to luxury car prices...

 

Exactly my sentiments, and what I was trying to say some time ago in this thread. If Subaru are to attract more buyers, they do need to offer more options just like any other carmaker. Gee, even Holden are now including Bluetooth so why not Subaru? It's all penny pinching I'm sure. Lack of a wider range of colours is another thing too! I'm more convinced than ever the GT/Spec-B/STi/etc are overpriced - but they are still lovely cars to drive - that's why you and I buy them. Thing is if they weren't there'd be nothing to go for them and they would flop. Just hope they listen and learn so that when it's time for me to upgrade my GT in 2-3 years time I can look forward to an even greater car. Otherwise, it will have to be an M3 or something.

[dmcgowan]

Gee, I almost miss Jon not coming on here to point out our ills heh heh (NOTE: ALMOST!)

RFD - In Melbourne, Subaru own the entire distribution market - all four dealerships are owned by Inchcape and have centralised pricing controls and also control of tradeins so price management is tight. So judge this in light of that market situation. I'm using the 5MT Sedan for example here:

Liberty 3.0R-B $51,990 - add about $5-6k for on-roads ~ $58k

Liberty GT $52,990 - add about $5-6k for on-roads ~ $59k

Liberty GT by STi $59,490 - add about $6k for on-roads ~ $66k

Most of the cars sold down here in Melbourne go for RRP - i.e. not much chance of a discount unless you have access to a fleet deal. So for me, the price of the GT by STi was about $7k more than the standard GT when I factor in slightly higher on-roads (extra tax, etc).

To the best of my knowledge it is very difficult to extract meaningful discounts on Subaru - particularly these 3 cars. It is common knowledge that anyone can get 10-15% discount by haggling on Ford / GM Holden cars so your examples of paying $3k below MSRP / RRP are not common at all in Melbourne for Subarus.

I know Jon has a congenital disagreement with us all, but my read of the situation is that Australia has been a good market for Subaru historically and the importer here has done a great job in building the brand. The rally team has been untouchable for 10 years (they won the rally champ 10 years in a row I think? at least 8-9 of 10 anyway) and I think the STi facility in Melbourne is the only branded STi facility outside of Japan - well it was when it was launched - there may be others? Australia is a good test market, but what I think we are seeing is the importer slowly opening up the FHI relationship to allow non-Japan products to be badged STi. I'd guess the success they had with the non-STi badged WRP10 proved their credentials and they are slowly building on it.

What does it mean? I think that this model came about because the aim of Inchcape is to lift Subaru into a stronger brand position - and make themselves more money. It started (about) 10 years ago when they dropped all non AWD models from the range. The whole AWD thing has been the centre of the brand here for ages now and so they have that market space. I'm not totally convinced it is a unique position - look at what Prodrive have done with Subaru UK - but there isn't a Prodrive equivalent here so they've done it the hard way step by step etc.

There are other good models for "modded" manufacturer cars - FPV (Ford), HSV (GMH), Ralliart (Mits) - and the market seems to like them. Hopefully the US market will develop along similar lines - looking at the various STi / WRP10 bits sold here and the Prodrive example and you'd have to think it is a wasted opportunity.

If you're interested - you can get a rough idea of what we can buy in Melbourne today as Liberty / WRX owners from the STi workshop:

http://sti.subaru.com.au/

I think you can probably get these bits at quite a few dealers but the Melbourne showroom is the only one branded as an STi workshop I think.

Cheers,

Darren

 

 

[dmcgowan]

Mmmm fan - I don't think the options thing will help Subaru at all. The average Euro buyer doesn't blanche at the sight of a BMW options list. But, the average Subaru buyer is going to crap themselves silly at shelling out $65k and then adding $25k-$30k in options (and I am amazed at how easy it is to upspec a 3 series $20k - ouch!). I don't know about you, but I love the price point for a Subaru at $65k for the GT by STi? Turn it into a $90k car with options, etc, etc and all of a sudden it's a resale disaster.

 

Not at all intending to flame, but I don't think for a minute there are that many people who shop an M3 vs any Subaru. If I was willing to burn $150k on a car then I'd never set foot in a Subaru salesroom - I'm a huge fan of Subies but M3 competition - nothing they've built comes close....YET

 

p.s. The bluetooth etc stuff that adds lots of mini features for another $2-$3k could work - I just don't see the Subaru demographic plonking sixty large on the car and then twenty more for options.

[fan42025]

Mmmm fan - I don't think the options thing will help Subaru at all.

 

Ok, let agree to disagree. It works at all entry points, not just at the high end. I know of numerous people whould would have bought a standard Liberty but went for Honda or Mazda because they had more features. I do agree that the small ones like Bluetooth would be a good start. Don't get me wrong, I don't choose a car based on the options. If I did I wouldn't have bought the GT. I bought the GT for it's performance and handling, plus the potential to improve it almost no end. However, the masses use a different criteria. They like options and gizmos - it's that kind of world unfortunately. For the sake of Subaru's long term viability I would hope they beef up their options list.

[dmcgowan]

Hmmm I think it depends - if there are boxes we can tick for a Subaru that add say hundreds, maybe a few k then I totally agree. What you've described is actually better base features which is something Subaru does poorly (e.g. adjustable reach on the wheel, memory on the power seat, HID lights...).

I just don't think the average GT / WRX drive is about to option a pair of $5k brakes. Agree there would be some, just surprisingly few. One thing I would give Inchcape a lot of credit for is understanding their price point. It's not about what a bunch of crazy ass enthusiasts on a forum would buy - they need the stuff that the mum and dads in the showroom at the same time will sign up for...

On that note - hey Adam, you bought the paint protection yet

[redrobin]

Hey Adam,

 

You forgot about the Mitsubishi Diamant... something or other. It was a Mitsubishi wagon sold in the US but built in Adelaide alongside the Verada and Magna.

 

Then there is BTR which makes brake and clutch components for GM and Ford in the US, CSA who make steel and alloy wheels by the millions for most US manufacturers, National Springs who manufacture springs and other suspension components for most Mercedes Benz models, and the list goes on....

 

I get really stroppy when Australia is just written off as some insignificant place that isn't worth worring about.

 

Australia, we fight wars, we just don't start them........

 

Darryl

[rfd425]

Those were very clear and thorough answers to my questions, Darren. Thanks.

[agctr]

Not at all intending to flame, but I don't think for a minute there are that many people who shop an M3 vs any Subaru. If I was willing to burn $150k on a car then I'd never set foot in a Subaru salesroom - I'm a huge fan of Subies but M3 competition - nothing they've built comes close....YET

 

 

Careful Darren as you may be stepping on ppl's toes there. Have been in the market for an ///M for sometime although I just could'nt get the specs I wanted. MY03 - MY04 Ti or SG on Imola, SMGII with 30K, HK, PDC, BT, 19's etc. Hence I am also a MOD at M3Forum.com. The options box is very extensive at ///M even though we get a lot more specs than the US will ever get, more HP, better brakes and suspension for starters (hence the price difference too). I said to STi on serveral occasions that I want to stay loyal to the Subaru brand as I love everything about them, but I seriously need that step up to own something that not everyone can buy, a LibertySTi. Pretty much the same sort of deal with 3 Series compared to the ///M. Lots of ppl own 3ers but not many own M's. I think this STi will compare on certain levels to the ///M but only on some. I think personally this is a fantastic stepping stone and I am proud to be apart of it.

Ada///M.

 

PS Darren, still awaiting details on the PP from Sharon, I will seriously have to chase this up if Im going to make a move on it. I will keep u in the loop.

 

PPS RFD, Im sure that Darren has explained fully the price differences between all the units, (thanks for that Darren) and RFD, thanks for the thankU towards Darren, nice to see Members using the T word every now and again.... Cheers.

[dmcgowan]

Was thinking that one of the very few was on the forum when I wrote it Adam!

 

I guess what I meant was that for most people (i.e. 90%) - those who walk into a Subaru showroom would lust after an M3 but realistically they can't choose between the two. I think that the GT by STi will be 80-90% of an M3 for 45-50% of the price but know deep down it is never going to be in the same league. I guess you're lucky to be able to choose but the vast majority of people who walk into Docklands for example just couldn't afford $150k for an M3.

 

And that's before the options cut in

 

Completely off topic, but when I was going through Tulla on Monday there was a fantastic Ferrari parked at Valet. I have no hope of owning one, nor much real desire, but my god do those things just look the goods standing still. Was a schoolboy's wet dream when the guy moving it fired it up and tickled the throttle. This thing sounded awesome on idle - can only imagine what they sound like at full noise on the freeway. Oh well, back to reality!

 

p.s. Adam - I'm not that into the Beemers but for those sort of cars you mentioned what is the expected price? Am I right to think you would be shelling out $120-$140k for a 2 year old M3 or do they depreciate a lot so they can compete with $70k STis?

[agctr]

Yes Darren the olde Ferrari certainly does make the heart go pitter patter that is for sure. Not sure that I would be driving it to Tulla to have some rentboy move the F to its car spot and back to greet me when I arrive back in Melbourne. I would have Ferris Buller still ringing in my ears.... lol. Not many F430's around yet so I gather it would have been a F355 or F360 both sensational cars and sound WOW @ WOT.

 

MY03 - MY04 have come down a little in the past few weeks. This could have something to do with fuel pricing. For this MY range with roughly 20 - 30K on the clock, yr looking from 119K to 143K depending upon the options. The things to look for are Leather, 19's, SMGII/6MT, Hardon Kardon System, SatNav and colour. Depending on the colour of the ///M can really throw the price up or down would you believe. The rarer colours in that MY range of PY Phoneix Yellow or LSB Laguna Seca Blue are worth top $ if in good condition. If u are looking at a Vert in the MY range in normal spec colours, get ready to shell out from 135K to 150K again depending on the options. There are some great bargins out there at the moment and for some reason QLD seems to have more 2nd ///M's than any other state. Flying to QLD can be expensive considering its a long way to go to be disappointed.

 

Getting back on topic, the STi will compete on so many levels but I still believe in a dogfight, the ///M would come out on top for handling, straight line speed and believe it or not, off the line performance. The options with the ///M are well turned to the dynamics of the ///M and never compromise in anyway. With the countless hours that go into R&D in places like the Nurburging and other test tracks at MSports disposal, why wouldnt they have one of the best GT production cars ever. Every time a new ///M is released, it opens everyones eyes because it is such a leap from the previous generation, the new E90 will be no expection.

Ada///M.