rebourne's '06 OBXT build thread

[rebourne]

I am just getting the OEM replacement and hoping it can handle my VF-52. If It can't, I will seriously start saving for a 6mt swap (I might do that anyway though)....

 

Right now I am displeased with FedEx. I guess delivering a clutch is too difficult.

 

After collecting clutch opinions and experiences for two years on this site, some in a notepad and some just by memory, I want to stay with a stock as nearly a stock clutch as I can. The VF52 supporting Exedy sounds like a great option in that direction. If it lasts 30-50k, roughly half a normal expectancy, it would have outlived many of the comp, spec, south bend, act, etc... All with stock stiffness and engagement.

 

My daily commute is brutal on my clutch leg too, especially my knee.

 

Stay stock, stay happy? lol.

 

Hrmm. Seems like the Exedy with a 20% stiffer pressure plate would be a great option. I'd adapt and it should hold for 30-50k.

 

Also, there is no shame in detuning for drivetrain longevity. The slushbox guys have to do it, AND they have much worse parasitic loses.

 

Come on FedEx, I need another data point before this thing fails on me, lol!

[magnusonsubie]

Why not get a stock 09+ WRX flywheel and clutch? They had the VF52 stock so they should be up to the task. At least thats what I would think. I hate driving my competition clutch stage 2 in traffic..... And I'm about to start doing that in a months time lol.

[fahr_side]

Why not get a stock 09+ WRX flywheel and clutch? They had the VF52 stock so they should be up to the task.

 

 

 

Yeah, mine held up to my old 16G for 80,000km or so and was only half worn when replaced. But, I had the thing out to replace a bad TOB and decided to install a new stock clutch in while I was in there.

[rebourne]

oh, that's what i didn't write down! Yes!

 

Thanks!

 

Now to see if we can progress with any more iterations on this clutch.... We are only at the 3rd (conservative) iteration of this tune, lol.

[Smithcraft]

I think your FedEx driver doesn't like you...

 

SC

[rebourne]

Watched F1 Quali while swapping injectors #1 and #3.

 

 

Still trying to chase down a Cyl #3 misfire that I only get while idling.

 

Also wired up the wideband through the rear O2 plug, using a cable TA sells.

 

I find going through this big grommet to be the easiest. Well, it's the only way I've tried.

 

 

Taped off the actual rear O2 sensor plug.

 

 

The TA plug goes right into the OEM socket.

[Rhitter]

Can you use that to log with your ECU / Opensource? Or does the AP only recognize it?

[rebourne]

It just logs the voltage range from 0-5 in the AP, and then TA converts that to AFR. The advantage is all the data in one log file, and not having to have a laptop setup to log the WB.

 

With BtSSM, I think you can do a custom conversion on the rear O2 data and get AFR from that. Similar to what they do in the thread about logging the WB through the TGV cables (after deleting the TGVs) with BtSSM.

[rebourne]

Averaged 15.8 MPG driving roundtrip to Big Bear. 7000 feet elevation change, half of it in 3rd or 4th. With snowboards on top. That's WAY better than the 12.0 I get on my daily commute.

 

There was an E85 station half way there, so I filled up both ways, drastically reducing anxiety.

 

Clutch held fine as long as I didn't ask too much of it.

 

Rear tires rubbed if I took the turns too hard, which was a good reminder to back off anyways.

Edited April 13, 2017 by rebourne

[rebourne]

For the last 3 or 4 weeks (I've lost track!) the wife is daily driving the Outback while we wait for her car to get back from the body shop. Some insurance work, and since it's in there we are having some wear and tear fixed up out of pocket to make it nice again.

 

I drive the OB a bit on the weekend, and man do I miss it. Clutch is holding up just fine as long as you don't ask for too much boost. Not sure when I will get to the clutch. TheKorean (aka JohnnyWalker) is installing the Exedy Stage1 soon, so I'm content to wait for his feedback on that, anyways.

 

Did an oil change this weekend, and the Primitive skidplate is covered in a light film of oil, again. When we get the other car back and I'll bring it into my shop for a once over and recommended maintenance stuff. i'll be honest with him, that I'll do some of them myself to save money, but I'll have him do the stuff that needs special tools, a lift or is just to damn time consuming. We'll see if the oil leak is something that's not to bad to fix, or if it's something to live with for awhile.

 

Had a funny moment a few days ago where I was waiting for my wife at my kids school, and expecting her to drive by in the Evo, completely forgetting it was in the shop. So I saw a slammed black OBXT with a crazy sounding exhaust roll by and it broke my neck. Holy isht!, an Outback just like mine, how have I not seen that around here before, and W.T.H. is that exhaust note?!.... oh duh. that was mine. Seriously I was laughing at myself.

[fahr_side]

Had a funny moment a few days ago where I was waiting for my wife at my kids school, and expecting her to drive by in the Evo, completely forgetting it was in the shop. So I saw a slammed black OBXT with a crazy sounding exhaust roll by and it broke my neck. Holy isht!, an Outback just like mine, how have I not seen that around here before, and W.T.H. is that exhaust note?!.... oh duh. that was mine. Seriously I was laughing at myself.

Had something similar happen once after I dropped the car off to be detailed. They decided they'd take it for a test drive and blew by me while I was sitting in my wife's car. I had the same first reaction, wow another one like mine...

 

We went back so I could innocently ask to get something I'd left in the car and watch them do some logical gymnastics trying to explain where my car had gone.

Edited May 31, 2017 by fahr_side

[rebourne]

Pasting in the posts I put in the 4th forum for the surging that suddenly popped up:

 

---

 

Wife's been driving the Subie for a few weeks and today she said it started surging at low rpm. Goes away at higher rpm or accelerating, but is still there at 3500 when holding steady. No CELs. Hopefully I can get some time to look at it tomorrow. Guess I have to since we are already down one car.

 

No changes to the car in months, and with the slipping clutch we've been babying it. Filled it with E85 on Saturday, and it was fine for half a tank, so I can't blame fuel. First thing I thought of though was the DW65c.

 

I'll google around the site for some guidance in what to look for, but if it smells like something y'all know, throw me a bone.

 

----

Drove it. Confirmed it's surging. Reminded me of when my O2 went bad recently. Nearly exactly that.

 

 

Sounds like learned knock correction to me. Log FLKC, FBKC and IAM if you can while driving. Likely you've picked up a lot of FLKC in a certain cell at lower RPM/load (generally between 1.3 to 1.5-1.7 g/rev under 3200 RPM). If that's the case, try staying in the cell with the learned correction (so shift into whatever gear and hold the throttle wherever keeps you in that FLKC cell) until it learns back to nothing. This all assumes your IAM hasn't dropped.

 

 

Hooked up the AP and the AF learning looked funky. Something like 3.91/10.xx. No FKL or FBKC, DAM was 1.0. Hooked up the wideband gauge and reset the ecu.

 

Pics of my cell phone holder wideband mount:

 

Once I'm out on the freeway, I see it right away: AF on the AP and WB are fluctuating constantly at steady low throttle. Fluctuates less at heavy throttle and goes to rock steady at 100%. When the O2 went bad, the WB was steady and the AP was nuts. This time both are agreeing that the AF actually is going all over the place.

 

Video of AF flying all over the place:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzpBBIBAnpk]crazy AF swings - YouTube[/ame]

 

I'm thinking I have an injector (DW 850ccs) that's partially clogged, or something like that because 2+ months ago I was getting a cyl 3 misfire. I swapped injectors #1 and #3 and it went away:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5605186&postcount=4467

 

Moving the injectors around may have temporarily jostled around what was clogging it, but now it's back.

 

Sound like a good starting point? Pull the injectors and send them out for cleaning?

 

RC is local to me so I should be able to get them cleaned same day if I walk in early, at worst get them back the next day.

---

Boost leaks?

 

AF, Target boost and that thrust all seem in spec. Haven't ruled it out though. AF is changing so fast I feel it has to be the F, not the A.

 

---

 

Since you say it disappears under moderate throttle/WOT, it sounds like it's something wrong with the closed-loop fueling. Possibly a screwed up MAF sensor?

 

 

I could clean the MAF. That's easier than pulling the injectors, for sure.

 

 

Called RC and talked to a tech. I described the issue, and asked if that sound like injectors, and he said yeah, for sure, especially with E85, they see it a lot. It gets a build up on the injector manifold (sic) that you can sometimes even see. Could flows fine at higher velocities but causes problems at lower ones. edit: (more common is vis-versa from what I've read)

 

Did some googling and the Evo, Mustang (running IDs) forums and NASOIC talk about E85 gunk build up. Supposedly just running a tank of regular gas through it can handle the problem. The gunk is soluble in gasoline.

 

"For those that do have the issue, it appears that the 'gunk' is soluble in gasoline, meaning it easily dissolves and goes into solution in gasoline (as well as other chemicals such as sea foam, mineral spirits, toluene, xylene, etc).

 

It hasn't been tested yet in that thread, but a solution may simply be to run a tank of gasoline once in a while, to dissolve any of the precipitated gunk from the injector tips and the back of the valves and/or run an E-85 injector cleaner (such as the gumout linked in that thread) or sea foam."

 

Well, heck, that's worth a shot! I can toss a half bottle of cleaner in there immediately, then switch to gas. It's near quarter tank, which means I can probably only go a few miles anways

 

---

 

BOOM!

 

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37242444&postcount=42

 

"GM had a production port injected turbo flex fuel engine all the way back in 2007. It was a Saab variant of the Ecotec engine family. Saab did extensive testing on a lot of boosted E85/Flex fuel issues and published some work on it. ... GM found the exact deposit problems many of you are experiencing.

 

Effect of Drive Cycle

 

Deposit formation is highly dependent on vehicle use and overall drive cycle. This whole issues is complicated, but aside from the makeup of the actual E85 blend, drive cycle is the #1 factor in these deposits. "

 

 

"On the left is a multi-hole type (not pintle type) fuel injector after 15,000 km running a GM in-house designed drive cycle to simulate major stop-and-go city driving. On the right is the same type of injector after 60,000km in a high-speed (mostly highway) drive cycle. Both engines were running the same commercial E85 blend in Sweden, consisting of 95 RON fuel and denatured ethanol. "

 

"So how do we clean up the deposits if an engine is prone to them for whatever reason? Put "normal" gasoline blends in the tank and it will go away within 1 tank. You don't even need to pull the injectors."

 

My commute and my wife's commute in my car are shitty, stop and go, sub 20mph on the freeway drives. AND with the clutch slipping we've both not been hammering it. The clutch is perfectly happy if we don't give it the spurs.

 

Gonna give this a try.

[rebourne]

Grrr.... that sound I make when I come accross a thread that is EXACTLY my issue, and there is no resolution!!!

 

 

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2247381

 

"AFR and AF Correction are fluctuating massively at lower flow rates (g/s)..

 

this is in closed loop. beyond a certain point, the AFR begins to stabilize. open loop is fine. no CELs.

 

... the front o2 is quite new. about 5 weeks old.

 

I did some logging and took some videos - ARF rise and fall and don't tend to stabilize at idle, but start to stabilize at higher flow rates/loads..."

 

Wow, exactly. So he goes through all the troubleshooting steps I have yet to try, other than blaming the injectors, and then...

 

*Nothing* Bah!

 

But based on this, and watching the AP + WB more closely today I started seeing a pattern that makes me think it's my near new Denso O2 sensor...

 

I need to spend some time looking at the car, and less on the internet...

[rebourne]

As much as I want all my E85 dirty injector research to be right... The symptoms are really more consistent with a bad front O2.

 

My car is surging/hesitating when cruising from a bad front sensor searching for proper Air/fuel ratio. No CEL is thrown so I guess it has to be bad enough before it tells you. Have not noticed adverse mileage yet.

 

Doing research I've seen many replies like this for the same problems I have from many member idk

 

Originally Posted by whitetiger http://legacygt.com/forums/skynetim/buttons/viewpost.gif

The front O2 sensor is bad. this explains why it only happens after the engine is warm. that when the car is in closed loop operation. The case dowes not use O2 reading during warmup and druing full throttle. only at idle and during part throttle. the sensor is giving bad readings so the the ecu cant adjust the fuel mixture properly. Spark plugs and new injectors wont fix this issue. The ECU is not thowing an O2 sensor code becuase it thinks the readings the sensor is giving is correct. Ive seen this before. Change the front O2 sensor.

 

Got new O2 sensor installed today car runs better no hesitation knock and the idle seems smoother.

 

But I just replaced the O2 sensor in March, with a new Denso, so I think I was refusing to believe it could be the issue. However, Amazon has a few reviews of the Denso dying quickly... So does legacygt.com:

 

thread revival:

swapped in a Bosch 15011 about 40k ago ran great, sensor died about 2-300 miles after my re-tune.

 

replaced my 02 with a Denso 234-9120 about 1200miles ago,

 

started having a hesitation sputter condition at steady throttle cruise, and A/F is bouncing everywhere.

 

going to re-replace with a new Bosch 15011. I guess my car is one of the rare 700 that is finicky with sensor choice.

 

AF is bouncing everywhere, is exactly what I am seeing, although not the words I used to search.

[Flinkly]

yeah, alot of people swear by only getting OEM front O2.

 

Heuberger probably has a decent price and has them in stock. too bad you just missed their memorial sale.

[rebourne]

None in stock at the dealers for 300 miles. Ordered an oem one, and it was only $116 shipped... just $22 more than the Denso! should have done better research on that.

 

One dealer quoted me $190, and one $159. For both I gave my VIN. The $159 dealer gave me the part number, and that's the one I ordered. $159 retail, $103 + ship from Virginia. UPS ground, so I'll get it eventually.

[rebourne]

Received the O2 sensor and the next morning I jacked up the car, pulled the Denso off, only to realize the new one had the wrong plug. Ugh... the new one was a REAR O2. Grrr, but my bad for not doing my due diligence. I didn't double check the part numbers, so my bad....

 

Ordered a Bosch 15011 via Amazon Prime, and returned the rear O2. Paid $15 extra for a 2 year warranty via Amazon on the Bosch, which is still way less expensive than the OEM O2. Also, no one has an OEM I can get and install before our July 4th road trip weekend, so I'm going to roll the dice on the Bosch.

 

Also, re-doing my research, I saw this on Amazon's Denso O2 sensor page:

 

Note: Denso partners with other manufacturers to supply the parts your car was originally built with. This product is in a Denso package, however the part may have been manufactured by an independent Denso supplier.

Edited June 23, 2017 by rebourne

[rebourne]

Our Evo is out of the body shop and looking clean:

 

 

Wheels are done and we are picking them up tomorrow:

 

 

 

And that's where all our car funds have gone... the upside is the new teal wheels are getting 265s, so the nearly new 245s are going on the OB. Some how, some way.

[Rhitter]

Our fender wells are pretty lame when we have issues with "small" large size tires.

 

I think I got my 255s fitting now with no rubbing. You can do it. Or show my pictures to someone who knows what they are doing and get it done right.

 

Post pics of those wheels on the Evo.

[rebourne]

Evo wheels came out great. Love the fitment...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Need a bit of time to recover from this to spend on the OB, but I still have a ton of stuff in the garage I have yet to install. Money is tight, but time is tighter...

[rebourne]

Amazon delivered the Bosch O2 on Friday when they said it was going to arrive next Tuesday, which was totally awesome. Popped that sucker in as soon as I got home. Piece of cardboard to lay on, a few tools and a few minutes and it was done. Warmed it up and around the block, and sure seems like the AF swinging problem is gone. I need to commute on it to be sure. Fingers crossed. But I do feel silly for shouting about it being dirty injectors.

 

Denso O2 in blue, Bosch in black

 

Denso has plastic connectors pre-attached. Bosch has zip tie style. I ended up using a regular zip tie on the Bosch to secure it away from the hot and spinning things.

 

Primitive skid plate, Invidia header and no plastic cover makes this job easy. Don't even need to jack it up.

 

Another view from above of the easy access to the O2 hole with the primitive plate and Invidia header.

[rebourne]

Yesterday: Dropped the Enkies and 245/40s off to get mount and balanced.

 

Today: "washed" (wiped?) the whole car down with Optimum No Rinse and Wax. Liking it so far. Works fantastic on the Evo (https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4264/35696539841_73c01f876b_b.jpg[/img]"]pic) but my OB needs some hard core 2 or 3 step action before it will really shine with the no rinse products.

 

Tomorrow: Back to the wheel shop to work on the fenders to fit the 245s.

 

Ordered 3/4" rear spacers from Subtle Solutions to replace the existing 3/8" spacers. I don't have the tools to press out the studs in the rear shocks right now, but I'll figure that out asap. And then get an alignment.

 

.... I've got this hunch (fear?) that I am going to need some more parts to get the rear toe in spec... and by hunch, I mean some very prematurely destroyed rear tires on the Enkies...

Edited July 10, 2017 by rebourne

[Rhitter]

The tool the get the rear studs out is a hammer and a socket that's bigger then the stud head. I knocked all mine out that way (and reused them 4 years later.) Edited July 10, 2017 by Rhitter

[rebourne]

Tires (245/45/18s) are mounted. I think they look really good on the 8" wheels and perhaps I don't really need 9" wheels. We'll see when I've gotten used to it.

 

Fronts rolled more aggressively than my previous roll and are working good. Rears fenders were cut in the lower front part, and rolled a bit more above that in the arch area. I didn't do it, went to a local shop. I haven't gotten under there and took pictures. I'll get some pics of the details of the roll for this thread later this week, I hope. I think I need to get some similar black paint to touch up any cracks or cut metal, since that wasn't included in the price. Pics before painting would show more clearly what was done, I think.

 

Tried some Griot's Garage Black Shine spray stuff on the hatch step, mud guards and that faded plastic under the windshield wipers. Looks like it works great! I left it on thick on the guards and wipers area and its a nice shiny gloss that looks great. Then I wiped it off with a towel on the bumper step and that is a more matte, yet dark, finish.

 

Going to try to get some beauty shots for the picture thread today or tomorrow.

[rebourne]

Subtle solutions emailed me that they were out of stock of 3/4" spacers and asked if I wanted to wait until they made more. Nope, refunded. Found them in stock at RallySportDirect and had them overnighted. I'd like to get them installed on Thursday and then aligned on Friday. I don't want to ruin these nice Michelins.