cww516 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Looks like whatever's happening, it's starting around 2800 RPM. That 10% lower injector duty cycle from then on has to mean something. Looks like there's less airflow around that point, too. I have no idea what this means, but it confirms the butt dyno readings. Just for shits and giggles, is there any chance you could have some sort of slight blockage between the turbo and the manifold, or maybe something that peels loose (see also: stock TMIC coupler gaskets) at higher airflow? That could cause the quicker spool and less airflow. Could also be the throttle plate not being open far enough (can't really tell on that, since it shows 100% when WOT is really more like 40-50% or something like that), but that shouldn't change between logs without messing with your tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBPeik Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I took a look at the logs and made a top bottom view to make it easier for all of us to see. The top one is the no power one. Anyway, your wdc is near half of what it was at good power. Your idc is off as said above, but also your af learning is way different. They are well within specs, but the difference should be noted. Given the wdc and the af are off, I would agree that your airflow is funky. I am by no means an expert, but hopefully this will help some others chime in. http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah113/BBPeik/Untitled_zpstkvwecid.jpg My someday I will be done with it thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Check your TGVs are fully open? Sent from a device using some software. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Thanks for the comments everyone. I'll chime in with what I can. The WGDC being lower on the 'low power' log doesn't surprise me. That was one of the adjustments made to my current map when I started having overboost issues. We resolved with lower WGDC and porting the WG. We also leaned out the fuel very slightly as it was previously running in the low - mid 10s under WOT. Now AFRs are 11.0 - 11.1 (since I'm on e85, these aren't the true ratios) so that may have something to do with the reduced IDC or maybe the IDCs are lower simply because, for whatever reason, I'm not pulling as much air in. Interesting point about the A/F Learning. Maybe one of the tuners will chime in here - does that value really mean anything when you are in open-loop and WOT? What just seems so odd about all of this is that on my wideband I don't ever see 'abnormal' conditions. In closed loop, I'm around 14.3 - 14.9. Under throttle, it will drop accordingly until it reaches ~11 under WOT. The car isn't hitchy or jerky, it doesn't idle poorly, no white or blue smoke in the exhaust. Just bad fuel economy and not much power. fahr_side, how can I tell if the TGVs are fully opened? Appreciate everyone's input and help with this! VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatentWagen Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Maybe look away from the motor, if most things are "in spec"... what about your exhaust? Any blockage? Are you catted (they plug up)? Got potatos in your mufflers? LW's spec. B / YT / IG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatentWagen Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Thinking for a second about it, a plugged up exhaust would make sense, because it'd limit power but also improve spool. LW's spec. B / YT / IG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 I've got a catless DP bolted up to Borla (3" midpipe with 2 x 2.25" pipes at the Y) and a 3" Vibrant bottle-style resonator in the midpipe, so no cat to plug up. Not sure where else a blockage could occur? VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 So the compression test showed just over 100 psi in each cylinder which I think is pretty good. Surely not a sign of a major issue. Plugs also don't look bad.... The hunt continues. VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) So the compression test showed just over 100 psi in each cylinder which I think is pretty good. Surely not a sign of a major issue. Plugs also don't look bad.... The hunt continues. That's very low IMO, and a sign of significant wear or possibly busted ringlands. It should be minimum 120, 90-100 is rebuild time. The 2007 FXT that I was considering buying recently from a guy in WA checked in with 140-150 psi on every cylinder, with 112k miles on the clock. Did you do the compression test with the throttle plate propped open? Edited November 4, 2015 by GTEASER GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) That's very low IMO, and a sign of significant wear or possibly busted ringlands. It should be minimum 120, 90-100 is rebuild time. The 2007 FXT that I was considering buying recently from a guy in WA checked in with 140-150 psi on every cylinder, with 112k miles on the clock. Did you do the compression test with the throttle plate propped open? Shoot, didn't know that was considered on the low side.... Throttle plate was WOT. Not disputing the low pressure, but if it was a ringland failure, wouldn't you expect to see one cylinder a bit lower than the others? Unless all the rings are failing at the same rate.... Edited November 4, 2015 by jackal8788 VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Shoot, didn't know that was considered on the low side.... Don't quote me on that, ask a shop familiar with Subaru turbo motors. I have never really done the research to know for sure. Turbo motors have less compression ratio than NA motors, which I am more familiar with, but the results I got having that Forester inspected, show that 140 is not unlikely for a high mile turbo motor. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatentWagen Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Depends greatly on the temp of the motor. If it was cooling down, and you got 100psi across the board, you might be alright. You'd expect between 140-160psi on a hot motor. LW's spec. B / YT / IG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Thanks for the input guys. The motor was completely cold (had been sitting for about 5 hours in 55 degree weather). That being said, does it seem more likely that we might not be in complete desolation land here? VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2baru Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 When I did mine after the engine issue these are the #'s. That was around 40k on the engine and about 25k of that was stage2protuned. cylinder 3 ......... 28-32 cylinder 1.......... 115-118 cylinder 4........... 110 cylinder 2........... 110 So right at 100 or over that doesn't sound unreasonable. Iirc 4 cranks of the engine is what we did. Edit* car had been sitting about an hour from my drive over to my friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Okay, I am feeling a little better now. It would seem that this might be normal yet for a cold engine and since all cylinders are consistent with each other and because I've had no high oil consumption (using well under a qt. at 4000 miles now). We now have good plugs and <assuming> good compression, so I will be cleaning the MAF next and then smoke-testing the intake. Any other thoughts/comments are welcome! VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatentWagen Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'm still thinking that it's gotta be a restriction, either in the intake or exhaust. None of your hoses are collapsing(ed) or misshapen? LW's spec. B / YT / IG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Sorry to worry you bud! I was assuming you did it on a hot motor. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Sorry to worry you bud! I was assuming you did it on a hot motor. No worries GT! I should have done it hot for more proper results. Just didn't get around to actually doing it until a little later her and to be honest, it never occurred to me. I was thinking 'cool' for ease of handling the plugs and working around everything. VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'm still thinking that it's gotta be a restriction, either in the intake or exhaust. None of your hoses are collapsing(ed) or misshapen? None that I have come across yet. Everything looks to be in perfect order. I did notice on the nipple of my BOV (Turbosmart Kompact) that it is quite free-spinning. Is this normal? I don't remember it being able to spin freely when I installed it but my memory sucks.... VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acumenhokie Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'm still thinking that it's gotta be a restriction, either in the intake or exhaust. None of your hoses are collapsing(ed) or misshapen? This is exactly what my issue was. The air filter got a little clogged and the compressor was trying to suck in so much air at WOT and over 5500 RPMs that it basically sucked the hose in on itself. Not easy to find but was easy to fix (aluminum sleeve in the silicon intake pipe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Still can't find anything. Air filter is clean, so is MAF but still no power. Had my life mechanic friend drive it and he is thinking maybe a soft misfire that isn't yet throwing a code, maybe a dying coil pack. However, new packs aren't cheap and without knowing which one or ones are bad, I might be dropping $400 plus and still not resolving the issue. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions related to the coil packs and diagnosing them? VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Apparently the #3 coil pack is not known for its longevity, maybe because of location? Idk but I have read a few threads involving a bad coil pack in that position. As for compression, what you are really looking for is an anomaly in one or more cylinders the pressure itself isn't as important unless it is really drastically low across the board, which yours is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojorios Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 When I was getting misfires it turned out my cylinder 4 coil pack was toast. http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5183152&postcount=21 A new one from the dealer was around 100 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Yeah, that's about what I'm seeing around here too. I just wish I could isolate which one it was so I don't have to drop $400+ replacing them all, especially if I don't know for sure that they are the issue. To summarize, compression, MAF, and plugs are all good at this point, no leaks were detected on the intake side but power output has not changed. We are guessing at a possible 'soft misfire' that is not yet significant enough to throw a code but this is not confirmed. Any other thoughts on what I could check or how we could possibly further investigate the soft misfire/coil pack theory? VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 http://ccs.dogpile.com/ClickHandler.ashx?ld=20151104&app=1&c=info.dogpl&s=Dogpile&rc=info.dogpl&dc=&euip=66.234.199.109&pvaid=10364470df724586bd7b70a9eccedd6f&dt=Desktop&sid=1830193568.2882075271224.1446677589&vid=1830193568.2882075271224.1426791451.1526&fcoi=417&fcop=topnav&fct.uid=243283b6629b4828aad7994a67130d48&fpid=27&en=0WEFU%2FZhSoTF%2FFm%2BpLeuVl4UPZzISdzyg%2BaGYj7N8ISb7M1aTnzzgA%3D%3D&du=http%3A%2F%2Fstuffpoint.com%2Fwinnie-the-pooh%2Fimage%2F212814-winnie-the-pooh-think-think-think.gif&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fstuffpoint.com%2Fwinnie-the-pooh%2Fimage%2F212814-winnie-the-pooh-think-think-think.gif&ap=34&coi=772&cop=main-title&npp=34&p=0&pp=0&ep=34&mid=9&hash=1F61FA28FF4691B52A4E6267CB94567F GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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