kzr750r1 Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Replacing the stock bolts used on the Killer B pickup. I was not happy with the fitment and glad I backed up a step. Fully sucks cleaning ultra black off the pan. Off to the HW store for some acetone. Carb cleaner isn't cutting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudSeed777 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Well I'm here all weekend. Reading up on the ARP studs they have no stretch procedure. Ok. They claim three successive passes through the bolt pattern to 90 ft lb. Ok. ARP procedure makes a little more sense (to me) than the madness with the Subaru bolts. If you watch Subaru Mike's follow up video where he puts the heads on the block, he states in the video that if you are using your USED OEM Subaru head bolts, you DO NOT have to do the first part of the funky tightening procedure, which GREATLY simplifies the procedure. He states that this is because bolts have already been stretched to spec when they were put on the first time. I just did a 2.5i na motor and put the heads on using the same procedure he does here. It was no more complicated than putting the head studs on the turbo'd motor I did, and I was told by a tech at my local Subaru dealer that head studs have no advantage unless you are building a 300+ HP motor. Had I known all of this when building my OBXT motor, I would have saved the $ and re-used the OEM head bolts. I believe if not mistaken that ARP advises that you pre-stretch their head studs as well by tightening them to torque, though it is easier than Subaru's stretch procedure. I added a link to the video where he talks about the head bolts below: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 Studs are in the block. Some were pretty tight. Worked a stock bolt with some lube on it to ease them up a little. Next time make sure they are cleaned out before assembly. Dumb ass... Heads are going to go on next week. It's beer thirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Subaru with new bolts. Skip stretch if reusing the pre stretched bolts. B: INSTALLATION 1) Install the cylinder head and gaskets on cylinder block. CAUTION: • Use new cylinder head gaskets. • Be careful not to scratch the mating surface of cylinder head and cylinder block. 2) Tighten the cylinder head bolts. (1) Apply a coat of engine oil to washers and bolt threads. (2) Tighten all bolts to 29 N��m (3.0 kgf-m, 21.4 ft-lb) in alphabetical sequence. (3) Retighten all bolts to 69 N��m (7.0 kgf-m, 51 ft-lb) in alphabetical sequence. (4) Back off all bolts by 180�� in the reverse order of installation, and back them off again by 180��. (5) Tighten all bolts to 49 N��m (5.0 kgf-m, 36 ftlb) in alphabetical sequence. (6) Tighten all bolts by 80 — 90�� in alphabetical sequence. (7) Tighten all bolts by 40 — 45�� in alphabetical sequence. CAUTION: Do not tighten the bolts more than 45��. (8) Further tighten the bolts (A) and (B) by 40 — 45��. CAUTION: Ensure the total “re-tightening angle” [in the former two steps], do not exceed 90��. ^^^This is the statement that makes no sense. First hit after torquing to 36ftlb it's a 90 degree pass? Then two more 45 degree passes. This is clocking the bolts by 180 degrees in the end. ARP PRELOAD (TORQUE) RECOMMENDATIONS 8. Following the manufacturers recommended torque sequence tighten the nuts in three equal steps to 90 ft lbs with ARP ULTRA-TORQUE FASTENER ASSEMBLY LUBRICANT. The only bolts they are talking about stretching is rod end bolts. I'm going to double check with them in the morning if I'm interpreting this right. Being that there is no outright stretch procedure spelled out. Only reference is to sequence... And it ends at a torque setting, not some successive crank fest where there is sure to be more variance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 You got it. Let me know when you're ready to install and I'll come up to help you. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Just got off the phone with ARP. Confirmed the procedure. No stretching needed on kit 260-4701. Three passes to a total of 90 ft lb. So the only item used from the factory procedure is the bolt pattern sequence. First pass at 30ftlb. Second pass at 60ftlb. Third pass at 90ftlb. Ding fries are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Just got off the phone with ARP. Confirmed the procedure. No stretching needed on kit 260-4701. Three passes to a total of 90 ft lb. So the only item used from the factory procedure is the bolt pattern sequence. First pass at 30ftlb. Second pass at 60ftlb. Third pass at 90ftlb. Ding fries are done. that last pull to 90ft lb is a bitch. Took 3 of us to hold the engine stand in place and turn the torque wrench. Probably were doing it wrong, tho. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 Now you have me thinking of ways to ratchet strap my stand to something that isn't moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEarlSpilner Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) that last pull to 90ft lb is a bitch. Took 3 of us to hold the engine stand in place and turn the torque wrench. Probably were doing it wrong, tho. Did it myself, but it was a PITA. I think I was at the gym a lot more back then. Pretty sure I braced the engine against my chest and just cranked on it. 30-60-90 sequence seemed to be worth the price for the set. After reading the Subaru sequence I thought the ARP studs were a no brainer. Edited December 20, 2015 by BrianEarlSpilner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 Long Block status today... All of the pre valve lash measurements were on the tight side. Gonna beer break the rest of the eve and go back for another pass on how to adjust tomorrow. No issues getting to 90 ft lb solo. Slow and steady. Foot countering stand rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Yup, foot blocks seem to work the best. Good to see you're making some progress. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 So should I be making a temperature compensation for final valve lash? Being that it is cold in the garage right now. I'm reading folks shouting out .008 intake and .010 Exhaust. First pass after head torque was .004.5 to .006 intake and .007 to .008 Exhaust. Tight... Will be going through it again with just motor oil on the cam journals. Spec is .008 I to .013 E Looks like I have a bucket shuffle and purchase to plan for. From what I'm reading it's best to try and stay on the tight side..... But not too tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Just ordered 16 new lifter buckets from Heuberger. To reuse these I'd be shaving .003 to.006 off. Nope. Used Excel to narrow down the right bucket dimension based on a target gap.Valve Lash.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 So should I be making a temperature compensation for final valve lash? Being that it is cold in the garage right now. I'm reading folks shouting out .008 intake and .010 Exhaust. First pass after head torque was .004.5 to .006 intake and .007 to .008 Exhaust. Tight... Will be going through it again with just motor oil on the cam journals. Spec is .008 I to .013 E Looks like I have a bucket shuffle and purchase to plan for. From what I'm reading it's best to try and stay on the tight side..... But not too tight. the book the shops use to set lash is incorrect. This is where I ran afoul of machine shop. I had the right numbers and they were wrong. Machine shops would rather cut than buy the correct buckets. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'm referencing the 2005 manual for these gaps. Round up the .0079 for intake to .008. Rounding down the .0138 for exhaust. These are targets and due to the fact the primary measurements are metric in MM, there are some decisions to make selecting the right bucket. Give or take a ten thousands is not going to make much of a difference. I've seen no one yelling at me that my targets are wrong so I'm plowing forward. Could have reused one bucket, saving 20 bucks for a fresh unit is ok by me. These head castings are brand new so I figure it's best to go new. I see zero attempts to grind the existing buckets or valves. The tech just made his best selection to be consistent... It's ok, expectation was to make an adjustment after install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Round for exhaust too Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 I was going to go with .014 for exhaust then changed my mind and went to .013. Variance is .0158 on the plus side and .0118 on the minus side... With the buckets selected they all should be really close. Have seen after 160K a -.001 to -.002 reduction of the bucket measured value after 160K. After a little valve seat settle they all should be closer to the tight side of gap tolerance. Intake valves are not going to move much since they are the originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Is it that hard to buy metric feeler gauges, or is the retraining putting you off? Sent from a device using some software. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 My feeler gauges are both. But here a micrometer in inches is standard, at least from my friend who loaned me the tool. One of these days I'll have some in the tool box. Then I may commit to metric. My digital caliper could be either... But most the analog units I have are all English standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Valve lash set. Only four +/- .0005 to .001" out. I can live with it. All were either tight or loose measuring from .001 resolution. I didn't have the set with the .0015 gauge so I couldn't stack to get that last ten thousandths. Reading the manual now for next steps. Time for some ultra black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 You should read BarmanBean's recent thread, it talks about valve lash being measured with the timing belt on. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248563 BMB's Motor Pulling Thread with Boring Questions and no Boxkitty Drama Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Already stuck the covers so kinda not going back in unless I have to. Will read through it again.., and see if I will go through the hassle. Need forward progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Current debates in my head. Refurbish old injectors or upgrade to 750/850cc side feeds? Keep old fuel pump or upgrade to DW65c? Replace crank pulley with GS or Fluidamper? For sure need to make a hose clamp and crush wash purchase next week. Call Mike about getting the Passenger OCVS feed hose to replace the hard line. May bounce these thoughts off him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I'd definitely upgrade to the DW 65c my car seems to be a lot happier with it. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I put a 65c in my car for my stage VF52. Didn't notice a difference. It's cheap enough, might as well do it on an old car. Same with the crank pulley. I really like the way my car feels / revs with the GS CP. Unsure how it feels on an auto. Why are you looking at bigger injectors? Did you get your turbo rebuilt (JMP vf40?) My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now