Oil Change & Break-In

[2006Specb122]

Got my fumoto oil drain valve today! Going to change my oil tomorrow!!! 1500 miles or so and I have no oil consumption! YEAH! :)

[schwinn]

[quote name='rporter']You say that it is not petroleum-based, but then yo say they are "created by mixing and engineering chemicals". OK, where are these "chemicals" from? I'l bet they were orginally derived for petroleum rather than fermented cow manure or corn husks.[/quote]Yes, you are technically correct - "true" synthetics are based on petroleum oils initially. However, they are so heavily modified and treated that they no longer represent the original "oil" from whence they came, as they are engineered to be better. In some cases, there are truely synthetically assembled, using base components from crude oil, as you say:[quote][i]From [URL="http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/engineoil_bible.html"]http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/engineoil_bible.html[/URL][/i]: Pure synthetic oils (polyalkyleneglycol) are the types used almost exclusively within the industrial sector in polyglycol gearbox oils for heavily loaded gearboxes. These are typically concocted by intelligent blokes in white lab coats. These chaps break apart the molecules that make up a variety of substances, like vegetable and animal oils, and then recombine the individual atoms that make up those molecules to build new, synthetic molecules. This process allows the chemists to actually "fine tune" the molecules as they build them.[/quote]In this example, crude oil is still the source of the "blocks" used to make the new synthetic, but you can't possibly consider this a derivative of crude oil in any sense of the word. Note that both of these "true synthetics" use crude building blocks, but no longer represent the crude oil that they came from. On the other hand, there are the third "phony synthetic" oils that are basically a processed (technical term is "hydrocracked") oil. These are simply crude oils that are filtered to leave a majority of the good stuff, but they are not engineered as the former ones are. For this reason, they perform a little better than plain oils (since they are purer) but not as good as a truely engineered substance. Anyway, it doesn't really matter how the oil is made in the end... it's about how it performs. In this case, synthetics are simply cleaner, and longer lasting (hold their visocities better) than a regular oil. This an undisputed fact. Now, it's true that you can simply change the oil more often, which is certainly a valid solution for using a cheaper oil. Personally, I choose to use a higher quality oil, change it less often, and end up protecting the engine a little better, and keeping it MUCH cleaner.[quote]This whole"real synthetic" versus "phony synthetic" is like determing how many angels dance on the head of a pin. From what I can tell, the Amsoil guys started all of this mudslinging awhile back to justify their overpriced MLM product, and it's just a bunch of marketing crap as to what is "real synthetic". If it meets the defintion of synthetic that allows them to put it on the container.....it's as "synthetic" as the next one on the shelf. EVERY synthetic is made from chemicals derived frm crude oil in one fashion or another. As is virtually every chemical or cleaner that you have in your house.[/quote]Not quite true, again, but you are entitled to your opinion. I can point to facts and data, such as the spacebears website here: [URL="http://oilstudy.spacebears.com/"]http://oilstudy.spacebears.com/[/URL] where they showed the incredible life of synthetic oils. Beyond that, there are countless posts showing the sludge resistance and overall cleanliness of a synthetic oil engine. I have experienced this myself in my old Mazda, and can vouch for its efficacy... and so I am a synthetic believer.

[rporter]

Go to the end of this thread: [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24949&highlight=SOA"]http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24949&highlight=SOA[/URL] Specifically this post: [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=475110&postcount=113"]http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=475110&postcount=113[/URL] IMNSHO, end of story for both of these threads, which shold now be Closed.

[Max Rebo]

IIRC, true synthetic oils such as Amsoil, Royal Purple, and Redline are not petroleum-based. They use Group IV or V basestocks. Group IV represents polyalphaolefin (PAO) basestock oils (Amsoil, and maybe (?) Royal Purple), while Group V represents Ester-based oils (Redline). Now I'm not 100% sure, but Mobil 1 "synthetic" is actually petroleum-based oil that has been hydrocracked and processed to the point where it doesn't retain much of the petrol-based oil characteristics... or something like that. I've used Amsoil in the past with both of my old VW's... I had a '99 Mk4 GTI VR6, and more recently, an '04 R32. Good stuff. :)

[castor]

Amsoil ROCKS!:icon_bigg Run it in my bike, cars, lawmower, snowblower et al.

[showbo]

I will be changing my oil at 1000 miles or a little over...and then i will switch to syntec at 3000k miles. Only reason im gonna change my oil so quickly is because my car was sitting in the showroom for quite some time. So i think i should change out the oil soon.

[rporter]

That sounds fine. I did my first change at 1,700, and went right to synthetic. I wouldn't do the 1K change just because it was sitting, though. Sitting awhile doesn't affect oil. FWIW, my wife's '95 Del Sol only has 42K miles (bought new). I did a 3K oil change this past October......and the previous oil change was two years earlier in October '03. The car obviously sits for long stretches. But, when it is driven, it is usually a minimum of 5-10 miles and it gets hot. The oil still looks good at change time (the previous oil change followed a similar mileage/time pattern). It's the short-trips that don't get the oil hot that can cause issues.

[deneb]

[quote name='showbo']I will be changing my oil at 1000 miles or a little over...and then i will switch to syntec at 3000k miles.[/quote] Never heard of anyone waiting till 3 million miles to go to synth...heck if dino gets you to 3 mil, it must be good! :)

[showbo]

[quote name='deneb']Never heard of anyone waiting till 3 million miles to go to synth...heck if dino gets you to 3 mil, it must be good! :)[/quote] dang i owned myself. 3k :)

[showbo]

Cool, guess i will just wait until 2-3k before i switch to amsoil. thanks for the info [quote name='rporter']That sounds fine. I did my first change at 1,700, and went right to synthetic. I wouldn't do the 1K change just because it was sitting, though. Sitting awhile doesn't affect oil. FWIW, my wife's '95 Del Sol only has 42K miles (bought new). I did a 3K oil change this past October......and the previous oil change was two years earlier in October '03. The car obviously sits for long stretches. But, when it is driven, it is usually a minimum of 5-10 miles and it gets hot. The oil still looks good at change time (the previous oil change followed a similar mileage/time pattern). It's the short-trips that don't get the oil hot that can cause issues.[/quote]

[schwinn]

[quote name='rporter']Go to the end of this thread: [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24949&highlight=SOA"]http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24949&highlight=SOA[/URL] Specifically this post: [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=475110&postcount=113"]http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=475110&postcount=113[/URL] IMNSHO, end of story for both of these threads, which shold now be Closed.[/quote] The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act protects the owner against this. Basically, the law says that the manufacturer can accept and specify a standard, certified oil grade, and that's it. They cannot void warranties or whatever because you used Walmart brand oil instead of their brand of oil... as long as both meet the API certifications. Additionally, IF the manufacturer DOES require their own oil, they are required to give it to your for free. Bottom line is, that synth (as well as non-synth) are both API certified, and are totally allowable in our cars (and many others). SOA is simply covering their butts (from what, I don't know) by suggesting it's "not recommended" when the fact is, they can't do anything about it anyway. As for personal experience, I (and many of my friends) run synthetic on our new or used cars, with no detriment to operation, nor any new leaks. In fact, my car, the leakiest and oldest of the bunch, slowed its leaking after switching to synthetic at about 50k miles. What's more, that car also typically suffers from a valve cover gasket leak... I have never had to replace it in all 163k miles as my consumption has never been excessive enough to warrant this. (Many other MX6 owners have replaced theirs at least 2 or 3 times in this many miles.) As for extended OCIs (oil change intervals), I have always changed my synth at over 6k miles. Any longer is risky, in my eyes, and so it's worth it to me to simply change the oil (it's not THAT expensive... I'm always good about spending money on maintenance). If you choose to go longer, though, synthetic is certainly the only way to go, and oil analysis should be considered to determine if your motor can take longer OCIs. (Again, I choose to change it anyway rather than spend $25 for the analysis... but that's up to the owner, of course.)

[brad32]

[SIZE=2]Did my first oil change last nite, with a PureOne Purolator and Trop Artic semi synthetic. Milage was 1959 and I plan to go full synthetic at 5K. 4.2 quarts didn't get me to full mark on dipstick. In fact, it looked about a 1/2 quart shy. Anybody else experience this? Purolator filter is not that much bigger than stock. By the way, the old oil flowed out like water when I "pulled the plug".[/SIZE]

[deneb]

[SIZE=2]In my experience, 4.5 quarts puts me right on the F dot on the dipstick. That TA semi synth is pretty good oil, you could just stick with that and be OK IMO.[/SIZE]

[brad32]

I'm thinking about the Wal Mart synthetic. Not too pricy and I'm going with a 5K change interval. 5W30 meets ACEA A1. 10W30 meets A3. Of course, both are API SM, GL 4, etc.. This is my first turbo and, even though I'm not going to drive like my pants are on fire, this sucker does get hot. Pennzoil Plat looks like it might be good stuff, too.

[rporter]

Good plan. As long as it meets the spec, you are good to go. Ignore the Amsoil kool-aid drinkers!! :lol:

[scoobaroo]

wow, my eyes are on FIRE from reading all these pages. my last car i babied for a bit, then drove it normal. i def. felt a loss in acceleration (due to who knows what) but never any issues when changing oil at 3K. This car I babied a little, but have since driven it normal (few redlines here and there). I'm planning to change it at about 3K, which based on how I drive should be less than a month after I got it. Not sure if I will switch over to synthetic- that's up in the air right now. I figured I'd go with changing the oil around when the manual said cuz well, it's the manual and, why not ? I didn't break the last car doing it that way :D Thanks guys tho, for all the good info. If/when I decide to go synthetic, I'll be back for more!

[saball]

[COLOR=black][FONT='Times New Roman']Hello All[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT='Times New Roman'] [/FONT][/COLOR] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]I will admit I have not read all the postings so forgive me if this was mentioned earlier. An old mechanic mentioned placing a couple of rare earth magnets on the bottom or side of the oil pan. It will capture fine metal particles and just pull off the magnets when you do an oil change and they will be washed out with the oil.[/COLOR] It’s a couple of bucks for added insurance.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[Workinearly]

Dino in the engine from new may just be a cost savings measure from SOA. My wife's MINI Cooper S had full synthetic from the factory with the first change recommended at some ungodly high mileage. 13,000 comes to mind. I changed it at 3,000 the first time and thereafter till we traded it on the OB XT. I do, however, run-in rebuilt MG, etc. engines on Castrol GTX for the first two or three changes. First at 500 miles, second at 1000 and third at 3000 mile intervals. Mobil 1 after that. Use Mobile 1 in the non-overdrive gearboxes and synthetic hypoid lube in the final drive, too. REALLY quietens those old units and smooths out shifts.

[Carter]

Sorry to bring back a thread from the dead, but I just got a new LGT and was wondering about an oil change. I saw someone mentioned why not just do what Subaru says since Subaru knows best. I dont quite agree with that. I had an Audi S4 I traded for the LGT and the reccomended timing belt change was something ungodly like 105K miles, yet people had timing belts snapping at 80K miles or even less. I cant say if these engines were stock or not, still, for any car 105K miles for a timing belt is rediculous. I changed mine out at 60K. I paid a fortune for it and at 63K I traded it in. Damnit...

[pillboy]

[QUOTE]I changed mine out at 60K. I paid a fortune for it and at 63K I traded it in. [/QUOTE] No comment.

[ProjectS15]

which way does the crush washer go?! my car is leaking AGAIN after changing it out argg

[hondas123]

[quote name='ProjectS15']which way does the crush washer go?! my car is leaking AGAIN after changing it out argg[/quote] The flat side is flush with the bottom of the drain plug bolt and the rounded edge goes against the drain pan. At least that's how I do it, I use a new one each oil change interval.

[D_J]

[quote name='ProjectS15']which way does the crush washer go?! my car is leaking AGAIN after changing it out argg[/QUOTE] Did you use a 20mm crush washer? I got mine from Pep Boys, 2 for $4. Expensive but the quality is good. Not a drop leaks.

[2006Specb122]

Go with a fumoto oil valve. Since the initial install way back in the beginning I have had no leaks. It prevents you from having to remove the crush washer each oil change. NO LEAKS! check it out!

[rporter]

^^^ I tried it on a previous car, and I don't like it. To me, all of the work in doing an oil change is getting the car in the air, and getting set up for the drain & fill. At that point, whether I open a valve or use a wrench is a moot point. IMHO the valve doesn't drain with enough velocity. I like having a quick dump to get any crap out of the pan. I have gone three oil changes on one gasket without an issue, just clean the surfaces before closing.