Oil Change & Break-In

[Demi9OD]

A request for oil change instructions were posted in the basic maintenance forum, but no one responded. Forgive me for cross posting to gain a broader audience. I have about 1500 miles on my LGT and think it's about time to do an oil change. I would like to do it myself; the only thing holding me back is the oil filter. First of all I can't find the damn thing. I have yet to remove the undercover, is that where it resides? Also, what tool am I going to need to remove the filter if it cannot be done by hand? I picked up a Pureolator at Advance, they didn't have the '05 models listed in their database, this filter was supposed to be for the '04 2.5 Turbo, which doesn't exist, so I think it is really the '05, just not classified as '05 in their database.

[IwannaSportSedan]

There is a pic in the Legacy pictures forum somewhere that shows a door in the under-tray, for accessing the oil filter. It's under there, but should be easy to get to, through the little trap door, rather than removing the whole undertray. As for the first oil change, I would double check your filter fitment with the dealer. take the filter to your Subie parts counter, and check that it is the same size (seal ring, thread boss, and filter element length and diameter--if it looks the same exterior size.) Also see if they have a conversion table for various brands of filters. Usually part of the part number is similar, but some aftermarket companies use ozzy part numbers. Hate to have the wrong filter that negatively affects oil pressure, or flow rate, or worst-case, one that doesn't seal, and leaks under pressure.

[Deer Killer]

Oil change=oil change. However it would be nice to know if subaru uses a break-in oil that shouldn't be changed too early.

[rltrock]

why are you doing an oil change at 1500?

[Demi9OD]

rltrock, to remove all the little filaments that have accumulated as I've redlined the engine for the past 500 miles. I have always been under the impression that the first oil change is the most important, and should be done early, for the longevity of the car. It may be excessive, but it gives me that little peace of mind.

[gtguy]

Does the owner's manual or maintenance schedule provide any guidance regarding oil changes? With the WRX, there was break-in oil in the motor, and there was a specified interval before the first change. Kevin

[QToo]

I am also a firm believer in the early oil change. 1500 miles is the same ballpark where I will change mine. Get all of the break in contamination out of the engine. Have always used this method and then changed the oil at 4,000 intervals thereafter (may bump this to 5,000 due to tighter tolerances of the modern engine). My Acura GSR had 240,000 and still ran like a top. Best bet on the oil filter is probably to buy one from the Subie dealer so you are assured of the proper fit. No sense in savings a few bucks and have have a major problem because of some minor difference in spec. The Fram's of the industry will have the correct model and info out in a short time. Please post your findings as others will probably be doing likewise in short order. My GT Ltd only has 129 so I am a little ways out.

[IwannaSportSedan]

BTW: every mechanic I have talked to has said to break the engine fully in on natural oil. The dino-juice, not the synthetics. The synthetics are so slippery that they prevent the piston rings, valve guides, etc. from fully bedding in, and matching their surfaces. Synth is good after break-in, if you choose it. Some mechanics say follow the manufacturers' recommended break-in, others say tromp it, rev it to redline, and vary the revs often, as long as it isn't under too high of a torque load (not creating excess heat and wear). Free-revving, and revving in the lower gears (higher mechanical advantage, lower load) and gradually building RPM levels in incrementally higher gears. He claimed breaking in the engine with gradually increasing torque loads, over the entire RPM range breaks in the engine to run stronger over the whole RPM range, and improves piston ring sealing, etc. This trusted mechanic also recommends not breaking in an engine in long mileage sessions, because it tends to be on the highway, with little RPM variation, and no heat-cycling. Shorter trips, of heating to normal operating temp, with a FULL range of RPM at gradually increasing torque load, and cooling back to ambient temp tends to heat treat and harden the cylinder walls, and other parts, while the friction beds the parts together. Without the heat-cycling, the engine parts don't get hardened into their break-in state until much later, after potential wear, as people drive their "thought to be broken-in engine" harder. He also told me that bedding in parts below some arbitrary rev limit, not through the whole range, but with adequate heat-cycling tends to heat treat and harden the parts before they are bedded together at the higher piston and valve speeds. It makes for an engine that runs great below that rev limit, but that may not be as efficient as it would otherwise be at higher RPMs. This is how most new engines are broken in. With variable valve timing, I would think this would be even more important, because the engine would be broken-in below the cam timing change threshold, and the valvetrain might not be broken in properly above the threshold. But they all agree on Dino-juice for the first oil change interval at least, even if you change the oil before the interval, to use the dino-juice for 3-5k miles, depending. Synthetic after that should be dandy. Some info for after break in: Some manufacturers are extending their normal use oil change intervals to upwards of 7k miles. Due to the advances in motor oil, filtration, and in metallurgy in the parts themselves, and tight, small variation tolerances. I heard of a study recently that says those who change their oil too often, often miss the "heart" of the oil's lubrication stage. That modern polymers are meant to break down a precise, prescribed amount through the shearing forces in your engine, and that the modern oils, especially synthetics, provide their best lubrication when the oil is "broken in", and those who change too often (2.5-3k miles) are changing too early. It isn't really detrimental, but unneccessary. Plus using only the "break-in" stage of every quart of oil in the engine, over and over again, misses the benefits of modern motor oils. May as well be using gas-station special as the latest and greatest expensive synthetics, at that point. Leaving oil in the crankcase longer no longer runs serious risks of contamination from fuel or coolant, and doesn''t burn off as it has in the past, with new oil-seal rings, and new oils. New oils also don't break down nearly as easily as motor oil of yester-year, and don't form acids as easily, either. I have read that some people who use high-end oils like RedLine synthetic, are reporting intervals of 9-12k miles; basically changing oils twice a year. These were in modern performance engines, where high levels of technology and engineering allow it. Older design engines may need more maintenance, due to their design. They attributed the 3k oil change habit to old technology, where engines ran "dirtier" with more blow-by, wear, and oil burn-off, and with less purely refined, less advanced oils that broke down relatively quickly. Vendors of course won't argue with selling you more oil more often, so the habit gets perpetuated. [last bit is my own opinion] This is just hear-say of what I have heard from reading and listening to mechanics. I encourage everyone to find out more for themselves before modifying their break-in proceedures, or their maintenance schedules. Talk to a trusted mechanic who deals with modern engine assembly. Don't believe everything you read, even if it is from the manufacturer (covers their a$$ for liability reasons, and old habits), or the internet (no accountability for accuracy, most of the time).

[SUBE555]

Thanks for the write-up. Lots of interesting and potentially useful info there. I know for regular intervals and synthetic with my GT when it comes in I will be doing 4-6k miles depending on driving conditions. You are right, things have changed much, even in just the last 10-15 years. But you did recommend the first oil change at about 3k miles, is it recommended to run the regular break-in fluid that long? Wouldn't want to change too early/too late. I'm sure I won't give it as easy a break-in as factory recommends but won't run it as hard as that motorcycle website lists for an extreme high-rev break-in. I would like the components to heat cycle as you've mentioned and build up some heat to heat treat themselves and bed-into their normal operating state for the long-term. Heck, someone I know's father has an STi, not sure if he's ever taken it above 4k rpms! Sad. Good info and makes me just want to ask more questions of the mechanics at the dealership.

[andyo]

My guy at the dealership [b][i]specifically[/i][/b] told me to wait until 3k to make the first oil change, saying the engine had to "season". He also said to be sure to use only Subie brand oil filters, perhaps even buying a few from the parts counter and keeping one in the car in case a change must be made outside of the dealership. To me it makes sense to use a factory filter as it's most likely to fit consistently well. What is "Dino-juice"?

[Dr. Zevil]

He is referring to refined "natural" oil and not a synthetic or a synthetic blend.. I didn't switch to synthetic until about 10,000 miles or my fourth oil change..

[IwannaSportSedan]

[quote name='SUBE555']Thanks for the write-up. Lots of interesting and potentially useful info there. But you did recommend the first oil change at about 3k miles, is it recommended to run the regular break-in fluid that long? Wouldn't want to change too early/too late. Good info and makes me just want to ask more questions of the mechanics at the dealership.[/quote] I'm glad you enjoyed it. First oil change kind of depends, and the mechanic I talked to didn't go into that as much as the rev-bedding issue, and heat cycling. Oil changes during break in depends too much on the individual engine design, it's oiling/filtering capacity, and especially what oil it is initially filled with. He was talking about breaking in -any- modern performance engine. It depends on if the factory fills the engine with break-in specific oil, or if they just fill it with the manual-specified grade of mineral motor oil. Break-in specific oil may need to be in for a prescribed amount of time, perhaps short, if it gets a lot of debris in it from the initial few engine starts (first 5-10 engine starts produce the most debris, but in newer engines, that still may not be much, and the filter may be able to handle that just fine.) Perhaps even a long interval, if the oil has special chemicals in it to initially treat seals, or nikasil cylinder coatings, etc, but that is less likely. Engines are designed, assembled, and lubed to run right after assembly, seals and stuff should be ready to start break-in immediately. with regular dino-juice, it and filter could probably be changed at your discretion, within reason, as you would be replacing it with chemically-similar or identical oil. Changing oil at 1500 miles will likely not hurt a thing, but I would put dino-juice back in, until the second change, at or after 3k miles. Considering how many starts and stops, hours, and revs that distance entails, means things have likely settled in by then, the bedding in will pretty much be done, and synthetic oils won't be inhibiting any more break-in. Just curious, what does the factory material say about changing oil during or just after break-in? Anything? if it says 3-5k, I would change it at that mileage, or any time before, but not after. After one or two oil changes, then I'd be less strict and worried about it, give or take a few hundred miles on a regular interval determined by the engine design, oil consumption, if any, and type of oil. (I'd let synthetics go a little longer than mineral, as synths don't break down much at all past a certain oil break-in point.) I might also ask a subaru mechanic about changing the oil during break in, as it applies to an oil cooled turbo. (I assume the GT uses an oil cooled, rather than water cooled turbo, if watercooled, there is no relevance) A shorter interval, (1000-1500 miles, 2 to 3 changes before 3-5k miles) during break-in might keep debris out of the turbo oil passages, and propshaft, by putting cleaner oil through it. after break in, the oil should stay pretty clean over a 4-5k interval, with a good filter. Also, with the RPM-range method of break-in, it might be another benefit to break the engine in under a modest amount of boost, to "condition" the compression rings, and the valvetrain to the positive pressure, and denser combustion charge. Again, as long as it isn't torque-loaded too much, or held too long, and isn't pushed to the point of detonation, It should be good. Premium fuel, of course. This is kind of an anti-"spare the rod; spoil the *engine*" method of break-in.

[IwannaSportSedan]

[quote name='andyo']My guy at the dealership [b][i]specifically[/i][/b] told me to wait until 3k to make the first oil change, saying the engine had to "season". He also said to be sure to use only Subie brand oil filters, perhaps even buying a few from the parts counter and keeping one in the car in case a change must be made outside of the dealership. To me it makes sense to use a factory filter as it's most likely to fit consistently well. What is "Dino-juice"?[/quote] Yes, Dino-juice is a term i picked up for refined natural motor oil from biomass and mineral derived crude oil. "From the dinosaurs", as some people like say. Synthetic oils are engineered polymers, mostly polyester based, or polyethylene based, with different polymers added for shear resistance, metal lubrication, film strength and retention, and on and on... Was your guy a mechanic or a salesman? If a mechanic, then He very well may be right for more complex reasons than he told you, but if a salesman, he may be just quoting what the manual says, and what he's been told to say. I'd want to hear the same thing from someone in the service department, in that case. Some salesmen wouldn't know an intercooler if you showed it to them. Others are very knowledgeable, and most will at least lie about it if they don't know. From what I understand, moving part friction, compression, and heat-cycling "season" an engine far more than engine oil can, clean or not. The trick about engine oil is how much friction it allows, causes, or doesn't allow. hence Synthetic being too slippery for break-in, not allowing enough friction. Excessively dirty oil, with alot metal filings in it, will actually cause more wear. Excessively dirty oil is probably not much of an issue in a newer-design engine, in only 3000 miles, so following your guy's advice will not hurt anything. That is likely what Subaru corporate tells him to say, and we all know that coporations hate class-action lawsuits, so they make sure their a$$ is covered. They also hate lots of useless warranty claims. I can't see how changing it earlier will truly hurt it either, though. Unless Subaru Engineers and Mechanics know something I haven't heard of. Which is entirely possible. That's why I keep suggesting talking to someone REALLY in the know about the engine. Subaru branded filters are probably made by the same factory, and are the same part as the best in the aftermarket, probably nippon-denso, or the like. Both are probably very consistently good parts. OEM branding tends to jack up the price, but you do pay for some peace of mind.

[gtguy]

I repeat: Read the manual, do what it says. Subaru knows better than any of us do about the first 3-5,000 miles of these cars. I followed the manual for the WRX, and my result was a stock-powertrained car that could put the smack down on cars equipped with turbo-back systems. You're going to have the car a long time. What does it hurt to just do what the manufacturer says? Kevin

[IwannaSportSedan]

[quote name='gtguy']I repeat: Read the manual, do what it says. Subaru knows better than any of us do about the first 3-5,000 miles of these cars. I followed the manual for the WRX, and my result was a stock-powertrained car that could put the smack down on cars equipped with turbo-back systems. You're going to have the car a long time. What does it hurt to just do what the manufacturer says? Kevin[/quote] As with your HID post, you make very good points. However, to simply do as your told, while in this case, and others, may be just fine, you may not be taking advantage of a better way, that simply isn't as widely known. Not all ways that claim to be better, are, though. It's something for people to look into further. Don't take my word for it, go out and find out... Ask those who truly do know. What I have relayed here I heard directly from a mechanic I trust, aside from my own speculative opinions (which I noted). It is supported by scientific and engineering principles that make good sense to me. I am not a mechanic, or an engineer, but I am a car enthusiast, with a curiousity to read anything I can get my hands on, (some of which is marketing department bunk) and talk to anyone which whom I can bend an ear. While I know that Subaru is not in the business of messing around with their cars, or their customers; their policies, including the one on engine break-in, may be overly cautious, for several reasons. Old habit (surprisingly strong reason), marketing, minimizing liability and/or warranty claims, ease of use and lack of confusion for less technically savvy drivers, Industry consistency, in addition to engineering, could all be reasons for Subaru to stick to an old, tried and true standard for engine break-in. By all means, stick to the manufacturer's instructions, that is a sure way to break-in your engine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. People have been doing that with success for almost a century. Subaru Engineers do know more about it than I, I'll freely admit it. But Engineering may not be why Subaru, or any car company suggests you do it their way, and engineering has changed in that period of years. The suggestions I have put forth here have been tossed around racetracks, mechanics shops, and the internet, and some mechanics do swear by it, but it is somewhat "riskier" as it is not widely done, so hasn't been widely studied. It is your decision and responsibility to choose how to use the vehicle you are paying for, and I don't fault anyone for sticking to what is known to be true.

[Throttlejockey]

I'm breaking mine in hard myself. I've always done it that way whether it was motorcycles or cars. Lots of varying of the rpms and engine braking, tap the limiter a few times. Ever drive 2 used cars and one feels faster than the other and it's the exact same model? I have, and I bet the faster one was broken in hard , not babied. Here's some interesting reading. [url]http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm[/url]

[gtguy]

[quote name='Throttlejockey']I'm breaking mine in hard myself. I've always done it that way whether it was motorcycles or cars. Lots of varying of the rpms and engine braking, tap the limiter a few times. Ever drive 2 used cars and one feels faster than the other and it's the exact same model? I have, and I bet the faster one was broken in hard , not babied. [/quote] Sorry, not in the case of my WRX wagon. It was babied for its first 1000 miles, broken in as per Subaru instructions. People post stuff about Honda motors, and motorcycle engines, etc, etc. But we're talking about Subaru engines here. Or am I crazy? Kevin

[Dr. Zevil]

There has been alot of discussion over that break-in article and a lot of knowledgable people thing that it's complete hooey. I see this debate starting all over again.

[Th3Franz]

I'm doing the gradual break-in where I keep it below 4k the first 500 miles, and then gently increase the peak RPM up to 1000 miles. I let the engine completely warm up before I go above 3000 RPM in any event. For the record, I think I'll have the oil changed at 1500 miles also. I'd like to get the metal particles and stuff out of there pretty quick after break-in.

[IwannaSportSedan]

[quote name='gtguy'] People post stuff about Honda motors, and motorcycle engines, etc, etc. But we're talking about Subaru engines here. Or am I crazy? [/quote] I applaud you for taking the care to break in your engine at all. There are probably lots of drivers who don't care, or really hammer on it right away thinking they are doing their engine favors. Neither one is good. But your differentiation between honda engines vs motorcycle engines, vs subaru engines vs big block chryslers vs ferrari v12s, or whatever... It is all a matter of degree. Ferraris are probably broken in on a dyno outside the car beforehand or something. At least it is a water-cooled, tight tolerance flat four, rather than an old porsche or VW air-cooled engine that had to have nice wide tolerances for expansion of air-cooled parts. There are interesting parallels with Porsche engines. 2.5 liter turbo 4 at 250/250 horsepower and torque, sounds like a 951 (944Turbo) motor. Horizontally opposed boxer, liquid cooled configuration, only Boxsters, 996, and Ferrari 512BB, and Testarossa-512TR had that configuration. Pretty heady pedigree... I don't see much of a really significant difference, other than a water jacket here, or a cam chain there. closer tolerances, and fewer compromises. The principles are the same, and the materials are largely the same, regardless of "configuration". Deisels are somewhat different, but in the grand scheme of things, is a fraternal twin brother to a gasoline engine. The only real difference in mass produced cars with a reciprocating piston engine, is a wankel rotary, or the 50's Tucker, with a helicopter engine, but there were only 50 of those. All I'm saying is an engine, for the most part, is an engine.

[vqdriver]

i've heard different things (very convincingly btw) about the first oil change interval. so read what's been posted above and decide for yourself. once you do decide however, i'd recommend removing that whole undercover thing for the first change. i can just imagine getting that thing getting kinda gunky if some oil got in there. also, i can't imagine how you'd get a filter wrench around it otherwise..... btw, you'll prolly need one of those filter removers to take off your filter. they're usually put on by some ham-fisted, litigation-paranoid assemblyman at the factory. besides you'll want it to tighten on the new one too. about a quarter to a half turn beyond hand-tight is sufficient. also, as for dino vs. synth oils. to my knowledge, you don't want to make the switch before the engine is WELL broken in. by that i mean 10k - 12k miles. using the natural stuff in there for a year or so won't hurt anything, and will probably help seat everything better. i made the switch at 36k and never looked back.

[subey25rs777]

:!: A word of caution before I continue, please make sure the engine is not too hot while attempting this due to the risk of burning yourself or you may find yourself cursing like a sailor. :!: Start off by removing the entire undertray for the first oil change as mentioned by vqdriver. Use a 17mm wrench to remove the drain plug, be sure to replace the crush washer on the drain plug or it may leak in the future. (Be sure to remove the old one first, you may get sidetracked and forget to do this and if you do, it will leak.) You can use either a oil filter wrench or a "claw" like wrench to remove the filter. Some oil will leak out of the filter when you take it off so be prepared, lightly lubricate the gasket on the new oil filter and install, hand tight + just a bit more does the trick. Fill with your favorite oil and check for leaks. If no leaks are found re-install undertray and enjoy your freshly lubricated vehicle :D Subaru OEM filter # A6000-56381 A6000-30787 Drain Plug Crush Washer "gasket" # A6120-23416 This part may come with the filter, be sure to ask for it if it does not. Filters usualy run about 5-7 dollars, and the crush washer about .50-1 dollar.

[CombatCQB]

There are so many different viewpoints on these issues. Sometimes, too much info can have its down side. I've heard the use of dino-oil for break in too. Most of the time I hear people say that the dino-oil will leave deposits which help seal and seat the rings. But the counter point to that is pretty strong too. Today's engine tolerances are so tight that it begs the question if the deposits are really necessary. Not to mention that deposits are exactly that, oil and dirt left sticking to the pistons. Finally, most high performance engines come stock with synthetic, but I'm sure Ferrari design their engines to run synthetic from the start while SOA would be a little more economical about it. There is just no solid data in either camp to pick one or the other without stepping on someone's toes. I do agree that changing the oil at 1500-2000 makes sense. As much as we'd like to believe our engines are build in dust free clean rooms, they do contain leftovers from the build process and flushing those out early doesn't hurt.

[Ken S]

Over at Edmunds Town Hall chat a year or two ago, we had a Subaru technical specialist join in to answer questinons regarding maintenance. One of the questions raised was if synthetic was recommended. The Subaru guy told us then that there is no problem switching to synthetic with our engines, but he said [b]if[/b] you are going to switch, switch [b]early[/b] and [b]don't look back.[/b] I believe there had been some very strange engine failures caused by switches to synthetic at high milage, but they wouldn't elaborate. Also, there was no specific milage at which they recommended the switch. Just do it early was the mantra. Lastly, the told us that our engines are filled with plain old dino oil from the factory, and that there wasn't any need to change the oil at 1000 miles. In short -- just follow the manual. Ken

[Salty]

When we picked up our GT Ltd yesterday, the salesman told me that it had a break in oil as factory fill and to change it at 1,500 miles. Bob.