Oil Change & Break-In

[Drakuun]

My dealer told me to get it changed anytime after 1.5k but before 3 months or 3k. When I asked about going to synth, he said that if I did I should wait till any time after 1.5k miles or 3mo which ever came first, but stressed that I should break in the motor on the dyno-oil and, once I went synth to never go back to Dyno-Oil. The only subaru sanctioned break in rule I followed was to vary the RPM's while driving. Otherwise, I don't drive it much differently than I do now. Now.. My motor does have a coolent seep between the head and the block, however, IMH-Non Mechanical-O this was caused when I used 10w30 M1 Synth instead of 5w30. 10w is simply way to thin and burned off way to fast and I think that is what caused my seep to develop.

[hondas123]

Quote "Now.. My motor does have a coolent seep between the head and the block, however, IMH-Non Mechanical-O this was caused when I used 10w30 M1 Synth instead of 5w30. [font=Fixedsys][size=2]10w is simply way to thin and burned off way to fast and I think that is what caused my seep to develop."[/size][/font] [font=Fixedsys][size=2][/size][/font] 5W would be thinner then 10W....

[rporter]

[quote name='Drakuun']My dealer told me to get it changed anytime after 1.5k but before 3 months or 3k. When I asked about going to synth, he said that if I did I should wait till any time after 1.5k miles or 3mo which ever came first, but stressed that I should break in the motor on the dyno-oil and, once I went synth to never go back to Dyno-Oil. The only subaru sanctioned break in rule I followed was to vary the RPM's while driving. Otherwise, I don't drive it much differently than I do now. Now.. My motor does have a coolent seep between the head and the block, however, IMH-Non Mechanical-O this was caused when I used 10w30 M1 Synth instead of 5w30. 10w is simply way to thin and burned off way to fast and I think that is what caused my seep to develop.[/QUOTE] Another example of OMT..... As hondas123 posted, the base stock of 5w-xx is thinner than 10w-xx. NO oil, of any type, will cause seepage at the head gasket. This is either a manufacturing defect or you have overheated the engine and the head warpage has blown the gasket. ASE techs are not engineers. They fix stuff they don't design things, and their personal opinions about oil aren't anymore valid than asking your grandmother..... You can switch back & forth between dino and synthetic any time your want. Please note that just about every oil vendor sells dino/synthetic blends. The amount of misinformation about dino versus synthetic oil is absolutely astounding.

[iyalla]

It truly is stunning how much misinformation there is. Its like listening to a bunch of old wives tales ;)

[rporter]

[quote name='iyalla']It truly is stunning how much misinformation there is. Its like listening to a bunch of old wives tales ;)[/QUOTE] That's where the term "Old Mechanic's Tales" (OMT) originated from, as most old wives can't even find the dipstick!! :icon_wink

[moviemadness]

[SIZE=2]you guys only confuse me.[/SIZE]

[schwinn]

[quote name='agctr']Ahh ok thanks, the Oil that I have wanted to use but have steered away from it on my current car is Shell Helix Ultra Viscosity - 15W-50 API Spec - SJ/CF Ultimate protection and performance - even under the harshest conditions. For high performance and prestige vehicles. Extreme shear and oxidation stability Any comments anyone ???[/quote] [quote]hanks outahere, hmm not sure, I mean its the oil they apparently put in brand new F1 engines at Ferrari so I can only imagine its all good. Anyone else have any ideas ????[/quote] I'm new here, so I don't really know if you are serious or not. Please tell me you are kidding. [quote name='rporter']FWIW, I have done the hard break-in on every new car I've had since 1978. And each of them has been a strong runner compared to other similar cars. Coincidence?? I think not!![/quote] Amen, brother! One of the few intelligent things said on this entire thread. That Mototune website presents the data pretty clearly, as have all my cars, and my friends' cars and bikes.

[konrad]

What about breaking-in durrng winter? I am planing to buy my subie in few weeks. It gets really cold here and my consern is those few first days when I start my brand new engine in low 30 degree temp. Could this be potenatialy dangerous for my engine?

[rporter]

Don't worry about it. The only possible effect is on intial start-up. After that, the engine operating temps are so far in excess of the outside temp that it is irrelevant. Follow the "drive it like you stole it" break-in technique, and you will be fine. I hit 6.5K in 1st gear leaving the dealership, and never looked back. With my best ET of 13.395 with only an AccessPort in my heavy '05 Ltd Wagon and my 210# ass behind the wheel I would say it worked for me with 25K on the car. OK, I burn a quart of oil every 3k miles. With multiple redline hits every day that I drive it, that's very acceptable to me!

[simisuby]

I think Subaru uses a light viscosity, petroleum based engine oil for break in, to assist in ring to cylinder wall break in and oil flow through tighter bearing tolerances. I'm not sure what the factory tolerances are new (rod bearing to journal for example.....maybe ..0015 to .002 is my guess), but for the new bearings to properly cool, they need a lower viscosity oil to "flow" from drillings in crank, across bearing face to crank filets, where it spills off back to the sump. On drag engines, I have seen instances of rod bearing failure (looked like alligator skin) from using too high of a viscosity with new bearings.

[simisuby]

synthetics, from what I have learned are better for: wider range of true viscosity (you might notice most synths are rated like 5W-40 or 15W-50) better cold start lubrication longer protection against oxidizing (longevity) better protection against extremely high temps.

[simisuby]

I think the "slipperier" issue needs to consider the temperature of the oils being compared too.

[rporter]

[quote name='simisuby']I think Subaru uses a light viscosity, petroleum based engine oil for break in, to assist in ring to cylinder wall break in and oil flow through tighter bearing tolerances. I'm not sure what the factory tolerances are new (rod bearing to journal for example.....maybe ..0015 to .002 is my guess), but for the new bearings to properly cool, they need a lower viscosity oil to "flow" from drillings in crank, across bearing face to crank filets, where it spills off back to the sump. On drag engines, I have seen instances of rod bearing failure (looked like alligator skin) from using too high of a viscosity with new bearings.[/quote] No, they don't....nor does any other mfr. They buy railroad tankers full of 5w-30 from whatever company gave them the best deal, be it Valvoline, Castrol, whoever. I would be surprised if any car built after 1950 had "break-in oil".

[schwinn]

+1 rporter In fact, I thought I read somewhere that the original oil is Shell 5w30 regular oil. Nothing fancy...

[2006Specb122]

thanks... I was wondering what the facotry oil was too!

[simisuby]

[quote name='rporter']No, they don't....nor does any other mfr. They buy railroad tankers full of 5w-30 from whatever company gave them the best deal, be it Valvoline, Castrol, whoever. I would be surprised if any car built after 1950 had "break-in oil".[/quot Doesn't Shell 5W30 fit this description, the I listed above? "I think Subaru uses a light viscosity, petroleum based engine oil for break in, to assist in ring to cylinder wall break in " I never mentioned they had a specially formulated oil, specifically for break in.

[simisuby]

The reason for varying load and rpm of an engine has to do with the load that the piston and its rings apply to the cylinder wall. As you vary the load (via the accelerator pedal) on the engine, you are varying the amount of vacuum (in a n/a engine) in the intake and, when the intake valve is open, during different valve-to-piston events, int eh combustion chamber too. In a turbo engine, this difference is even more so than in a n/a engine. The piston rings will take on a different postion in the piston grooves (and each compression ring interacts with the other for effective sealing), depending on engine load. If you were to look closely at the compression rings, you'd notice how the top and second rings have a different design, both aiding in sealing during different cycles. By varying load and vacuum (& boost), you are essentially giving the pistons and rings a chance to seal with one another (at the ring grooves), and rings with cylinder walls as well. I diassembled a 2.3 liter 4 cylinder competition engine, and was asked to help identify a blowby situation. I found part of the problem was windage, and more so, ring to cylinder wall problems. The compression rings had actually been polished on their upper extremities, and the pistons showed witness-blowby-marks down the skirts and within the ring grooves. Obviously, the combustion gases were getting to the sump. The engine was re-assembled, with new liners and new JE's and new C/A rings, and this time was actually properly run in on a dyno. After initial warm up, we varied the load and rpm on the engine for 4 sessions before we made a full pull. With breather hoses dumping into an oil pan, we ran the engine at full load and saw 237 hp, and no more blowby.

[rporter]

[quote name='simisuby'][quote name='rporter']No, they don't....nor does any other mfr. They buy railroad tankers full of 5w-30 from whatever company gave them the best deal, be it Valvoline, Castrol, whoever. I would be surprised if any car built after 1950 had "break-in oil".[/quot Doesn't Shell 5W30 fit this description, the I listed above? "I think Subaru uses a light viscosity, petroleum based engine oil for break in, to assist in ring to cylinder wall break in " I never mentioned they had a specially formulated oil, specifically for break in.[/quote] But near 100% of the oil recommended by most mfrs for the life of the car is 5W-30. I don't see where 5W-30 is any more of an assistance for break-in than other oils. Nor do I see where dino makes a difference. FWIW, synthetic is also "petroleum based engine oil", unless someone has started making synthetic of out corn husks.

[2006Specb122]

I found what I think will be a great oil and an absolutely rock bottom price. Castrol GTX 5W-30. I think it will be perfect to use while I'm waiting to swtich to synthetic. The best part you can buy it in one 5qt bottle for 10.86. Watch for falling prices!!!!!!

[2006Specb122]

Just waiting on my fumoto valve...taking longet than expected

[deneb]

[quote name='2006Specb122']I found what I think will be a great oil and an absolutely rock bottom price. Castrol GTX 5W-30. I think it will be perfect to use while I'm waiting to swtich to synthetic. The best part you can buy it in one 5qt bottle for 10.86. Watch for falling prices!!!!!![/quote] WHy don't you get a case of Chevron 5W-30 for .99/qt after rebate? It's half the cost of Castrol and just as good if not a better dino oil. It, along with it's virtual twin Havoline consistently put up among the best UOA's on the oilguy site. I'm currently using a 2qt Havoline synth 10-30/2.5 qts. Havoline 5-30 blend, but I just got a case of the 5-30 Chevron supreme at .99/qt of which I will use 3 qts. and 1.5 qts Chevron 5-30 synth starting with my next oil change (I'm going with 5k OCI's). This after switching away from M1.

[2006Specb122]

So you are going to use chevron 5-30 dino and Chevron 5-30 synth.. mixing the two? I have not heard of anyone else doing that. Interesting concept. What is the value in using both synthetic and non-synthetic. I would assume you're not just trying to save the money? I've researche castrol GTX a lot and found really good information. Plus they happened to be on sale. I didn't see much under 2.12 a quart and I definaetly didn't see any oil for .99 a quart. I would almost fear the oil if it were that cheap. :)

[deneb]

If you check the virgin oil analysis on the oil guy site, you'd see that Chevron has one of the stronger additive packages in their oils. They also have a very solid base oil. Mixing is perfectly OK, basically anyone that offers a synth-blend is just putting in a small % of their synth in with their standard dino oil. My home blend is actually stronger that most if not all commercial blends, which typically have no more than about 20% synth, plus it's cheaper. I'm just looking for a little more heat resistance for the turbo, and I'm not convinced the higher priced oils are any better for my use. Sure they're great oils, just that if I can spend 2.50/qt (the cost of the synth + the dino) for an oil that will keep my engine running clean and strong for 200k+ miles, why spend $6 + for M1/Redline/RP/etc? I even emailed Havoline, they said no issues with mixing. The only reason Castrol is that expensive is marketing costs. In fact, pretty much any oil, dino or synth, that meets SM/GF-4 is a pretty good oil. Even the Wal-mart brand super tech isn't a bad oil. Check the threads on [URL="http://bobistheoilguy.com"]http://bobistheoilguy.com[/URL] lots of info over there. Frankly, I'm contemplating just using straight Chevron dino. It'd be interesting to compare UOA's from my LGT using Chevron dino with a UOA on M1.

[schwinn]

[quote name='rporter']FWIW, synthetic is also "petroleum based engine oil", unless someone has started making synthetic of out corn husks.[/quote]Huh? I'm confused... are you saying that synthetics (true synths) are based on petroleum (from the ground) oil? I can tell you that M1, for example, is NOT petroleum based, and is based on PAO Esters, which are synthetically created by mixing and engineering chemicals. Are you saying this is not true?

[rporter]

[quote name='schwinn']Huh? I'm confused... are you saying that synthetics (true synths) are based on petroleum (from the ground) oil? I can tell you that M1, for example, is NOT petroleum based, and is based on PAO Esters, which are synthetically created by mixing and engineering chemicals. Are you saying this is not true?[/quote] You say that it is not petroleum-based, but then yo say they are "created by mixing and engineering chemicals". OK, where are these "chemicals" from? I'l bet they were orginally derived for petroleum rather than fermented cow manure or corn husks. This whole"real synthetic" versus "phony synthetic" is like determing how many angels dance on the head of a pin. From what I can tell, the Amsoil guys started all of this mudslinging awhile back to justify their overpriced MLM product, and it's just a bunch of marketing crap as to what is "real synthetic". If it meets the defintion of synthetic that allows them to put it on the container.....it's as "synthetic" as the next one on the shelf. EVERY synthetic is made from chemicals derived frm crude oil in one fashion or another. As is virtually every chemical or cleaner that you have in your house.