Grab some coffee. Let's talk about Hyundai

[hmmrdwn]

I can assure you Penguin and I see more rural and snowy roads than you do.

 

Slightly better fuel economy? The Impreza 20/27, the Elantra 29/40...

 

You are making claims that you don't know my friend.

 

Legacy vs. Sonata...Car and Driver got better mileage with the Legacy on the test loop...hmmm

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/2b9b90ffff3f7097761045f403ee0866.pdf

 

The new Impreza with the cvt will be much higher too. The new impreza will be 27/36 mpg.

[hmmrdwn]

I also like that Car and Driver test because the Sonata base price was higher and the total cost was $3,000 more for the Sonata than the Legacy. The Sonate outperformed the Legacy in acceleration, on a dry track (let see when it rains).

 

The Legacy beat the Sonata in the lane change and was within a foot in the braking. The Sonata beat the Legacy in g's, but had much wider tires. Take the $3,000 savings and put wider tires, stiffer springs and shocks on the Legacy and the Sonata wouldn't compete. Take the balance from the $3,000 and use it to buy an after market warranty.

[StoplightAssassin]

There's no way the Sonata beat the Legacy in cornering g's.

 

As I've read in this thread, FWD cars massively understeer and AWD cars are superior in handling in every way.

 

 

The Sonate outperformed the Legacy in acceleration, on a dry track (let see when it rains).

 

Are you suggesting street racing from a traffic light in the rain?

[bosco]

Last November I traded my 2006 LGT Limited for a 2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T with every option you can get. I priced and/or drove all the 4 dr. sedan competition and the Sonata was clearly the best buy.

The Legacy 3.6 loaded was over $2600.00 more money and didn't have the features the Sonata has standard i.e. much better mileage, more HP, more gears, more interior room, 18" wheels/tires, moon roof, Nav/sound system, Homelink, etc. Oh and did I mention it looks better, has a better warranty and the fit and finish is as good or better than all of them?

I loved the AWD but in the end I looked at my needs and decided it was not worth the mileage penalty.

 

Car and Driver is full of crap my LGT in it's best day got 18/25 the Sonata I have gets 23/34 in real world driving. btw I run it at 75/80 on the highway.

[Jacks GT]

To bad you didn't wait a year B. Limited now comes with panoramic roof and all come with BlueLink, also, there was a 1mpg bump.

[Penguin]

Thats fair. I wouldn't own a Subaru, 4wd or awd if I lived down south either. We get a solid 4-5 months of snow and have many rural roads that don't get cleared right away. Hyundai are a competitive product with much improved fit and finish. The features are nice and they have a good warranty. Hyundai's don't have all wheel drive and only get slightly better mileage and the fancy plastics/design just don't impress me. In a short period of time the market will be flooded with Hyundai's and it will no longer be unique. btw...hyundai's warranty and the repairs to other customers cars aren't free either. You pay for them in the price of the car.

 

http://fastjournals.com/dogjournals/dog-teeth-thumb-400x226.jpg

 

Down south? Yeah OK, the Black Hills are down south. Geography is not your strong suit is it? Perhaps you live in Saskatoon or someplace, then I suppose I would be down south relative to that.

 

You get 4-5 months of potentially snowy weather and we get snow depending on elevation anywhere from late September to the end of April. I have seen it snow here in early June, it didn't stay very long but it came down nonetheless.

 

You have rural roads that don't get plowed right away, and we have rural roads that don't get plowed ever. We instead have gates and flashing lights on signs so it is easier for the state to just close the damn roads to include interstates. So yeah, I'm pretty familiar with snow, and driving on snowy roads. Give me a vehicle with appropriate tires and some weight over the powered axle(s) and I'll take it on just about any road until the snow is so deep the front bumper is a plow. In fact I'd much rather have a FWD or even RWD vehicle with good winter tires (severe snow service rated) than an AWD vehicle on all season tires. AWD or 4X4 may get you going fairly well, but the fact torque is going to a wheel doesn't improve lateral grip or stopping ability. It is all about the tires. You wouldn't go out to tramp around on icy snowy trails or sidewalks in your running shoes, but a hell of a lot of people do basically just that with their automobiles.

 

Of course discretion being the better part of valor I will choose to stay close to home when the weather turns to shit and reduce my exposure to risk unless I absolutely have to. There are times I have been unable to avoid this due to the nature of my work, and for that reason I have a 4X4 and more importantly keep good all terrain tires rated for severe snow service on it. Honestly with 400-500lbs of ballast over the rear axle you pretty much have no need for 4 wheel drive as long as you have good tires.

[MasAyinde]

But AWD isn't the same all around, now is it? There are a bunch of different systems that operate mainly as FWD and distribute power as needed and there are different F/RWD biased setups. I don't think it's fair to use one argument for AWD.

 

As far as Hyundai goes, it doesn't really seem like they WANT to be compared to Subaru. Their commercials compare them directly to higher end luxury cars. Even if their considered to be a lower quality asian car, they aspire to be considered among the ranks of European luxury.

[hmmrdwn]

Those Car and Driver numbers comparing 4 cylinder to 4 cylinder seem to have angered some people here. The Legacy gets better mileage? What? The Legacy stops just as fast? What? The Legacy negotiates the lane change faster? What? The Legacy costs $3,000 less?

 

Nothing wrong with Hyundai's. They have trendy styling, fairly good quality materials that are well assembled. A person can easily get by without awd. I just see Hyundai's as a rental car that won't hold it's value. Nice looking and quality in many respects, but often more expensive than a comparable Subaru. There is no equivalent Hyundai awd sedan to compare a Legacy. That is why we made our decision. Cheaper and more applicable features. We don't live down south like Florida, Georgia or an area where the snow melts off quick. We live in an area that gets snow and it doesn't melt off until spring and have gated roads (logging roads) that people are wise enough not to go down too. That's nothing special and a given.

 

You guys can flame away, I don't mind and it's actually fun. Hyundai doesn't have a sedan with awd and in four years your front wheel drive four door will just be one of a veritable fleet of rental and lease cars that there are 20 million just alike.

[BAC5.2]

And, again, we are back to AWD.

 

The Legacy doesn't fit every need, of every person in the world. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, then all the bickering about AWD will fall on deaf ears.

 

Subaru clearly cut costs to make their pricing competitive, and be able to stand out in a segment. If pressed, I'd say that 90% of people don't know WHY they need AWD... just that they want to have it because it's safer. I'd bet of those who know why they need it, only a few percent actually know how to use it correctly to get themselves out of trouble.

 

Back to Hyundai, I can't seem to follow their decision logic.

 

They offer a good package, but skimp on the things that would make them a better value. The 5.0R-spec is an awesome car with a good price ($46,500). But why skimp on things like skinny-doors and cheaper feeling controls? The devil is in the details, and I feel like a lot of what they do only targets the bottom line and the big picture. While that's an OK view to have, why not go the extra mile, eat a little profit, and produce a car people are not only eager to buy, but eager to convince others to buy?

 

I was a HUGE Subaru Fanboy. I've had 7. I bought one sight-unseen. I didn't even test drive other cars when I got an Outback. Why? Because I was happy with their price, and the features they had to offer. Subaru had a hook. They had something that made them different, and made them make people want to buy them. IMO, they've lost that hook. I can only really see myself buying an STi from them in the future (and it's not because I want an STi for the performance factor, there are far better choices than the STi for performance, but because it's the only car they make that still has the soul and intent that hooked me in the first place).

 

BMW has the hook, ask any E30 owner. Nissan has the hook too, ask anyone who has owned a 240. VW has the hook, Jetta owners stand up. Honda has, IMO, lost the hook in the US (though they had it once and in a big way).

 

Hyundai, I think, is struggling to find that hook. They attempted to snag people with the 10yr-100k warranty, but that wasn't enough. People wanted something more. The warranty they gave didn't instill the confidence they wanted, but had an opposite effect ("Hey, we'll pay for it when it's in the shop every other week"). The Genesis was a good attempt at bait, but I can't see people being fiercely loyal to the brand like Ford or Chevy truck owners are. Maybe the next revision will change things, only time will tell.

 

We all know why we chose a Subaru over anything else. For the life of me, I can't figure out why I would choose a Hyundai over something else. I'd pick a V6 Mustang over a Genesis Coupe. I'd pick a G37 over a Genesis Sedan. I'd buy an M56s over an Equus anyday (I already have an iPad, thanks). Most of the Hyundai options, I think, are less interesting design wise than the Kia counterparts. And that only means that there are further deviations from the details that I think are important to a car.

 

That's my few cents on Hyundai.

[hmmrdwn]

And, again, we are back to AWD.

 

The Legacy doesn't fit every need, of every person in the world. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, then all the bickering about AWD will fall on deaf ears.

 

Subaru clearly cut costs to make their pricing competitive, and be able to stand out in a segment. If pressed, I'd say that 90% of people don't know WHY they need AWD... just that they want to have it because it's safer. I'd bet of those who know why they need it, only a few percent actually know how to use it correctly to get themselves out of trouble.

 

Back to Hyundai, I can't seem to follow their decision logic.

 

They offer a good package, but skimp on the things that would make them a better value. The 5.0R-spec is an awesome car with a good price ($46,500). But why skimp on things like skinny-doors and cheaper feeling controls? The devil is in the details, and I feel like a lot of what they do only targets the bottom line and the big picture. While that's an OK view to have, why not go the extra mile, eat a little profit, and produce a car people are not only eager to buy, but eager to convince others to buy?

 

I was a HUGE Subaru Fanboy. I've had 7. I bought one sight-unseen. I didn't even test drive other cars when I got an Outback. Why? Because I was happy with their price, and the features they had to offer. Subaru had a hook. They had something that made them different, and made them make people want to buy them. IMO, they've lost that hook. I can only really see myself buying an STi from them in the future (and it's not because I want an STi for the performance factor, there are far better choices than the STi for performance, but because it's the only car they make that still has the soul and intent that hooked me in the first place).

 

BMW has the hook, ask any E30 owner. Nissan has the hook too, ask anyone who has owned a 240. VW has the hook, Jetta owners stand up. Honda has, IMO, lost the hook in the US (though they had it once and in a big way).

 

Hyundai, I think, is struggling to find that hook. They attempted to snag people with the 10yr-100k warranty, but that wasn't enough. People wanted something more. The warranty they gave didn't instill the confidence they wanted, but had an opposite effect ("Hey, we'll pay for it when it's in the shop every other week"). The Genesis was a good attempt at bait, but I can't see people being fiercely loyal to the brand like Ford or Chevy truck owners are. Maybe the next revision will change things, only time will tell.

 

We all know why we chose a Subaru over anything else. For the life of me, I can't figure out why I would choose a Hyundai over something else. I'd pick a V6 Mustang over a Genesis Coupe. I'd pick a G37 over a Genesis Sedan. I'd buy an M56s over an Equus anyday (I already have an iPad, thanks). Most of the Hyundai options, I think, are less interesting design wise than the Kia counterparts. And that only means that there are further deviations from the details that I think are important to a car.

 

That's my few cents on Hyundai.

 

I agree. Subaru's hook is awd. It's a functional feature that is hard for personal preferences like styling and glitz to compete with for some people. AWD isn't for everyone though. It has advantages and disadvantages. For me, the advantages out weigh the disadvantages. Higher resale is an advantage. There can be higher costs to maintain awd. For our family, the hook is awd.

 

I was impressed how the awd Legacy performed speed and efficiency wise against the Accord and Sonata. The value was good too. It was hard for us to buy another four door front wheel drive sedan when there are so many out there. Styling might be a hook, but Dodge has tried that and it doesn't create long term success. Look at the old intrepids, the PT Cruiser, Magnum, Nitro, etc. Hot at first and then boat anchors at used car dealerships.

[hmmrdwn]

Last November I traded my 2006 LGT Limited for a 2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T with every option you can get. I priced and/or drove all the 4 dr. sedan competition and the Sonata was clearly the best buy.

The Legacy 3.6 loaded was over $2600.00 more money and didn't have the features the Sonata has standard i.e. much better mileage, more HP, more gears, more interior room, 18" wheels/tires, moon roof, Nav/sound system, Homelink, etc. Oh and did I mention it looks better, has a better warranty and the fit and finish is as good or better than all of them?

I loved the AWD but in the end I looked at my needs and decided it was not worth the mileage penalty.

 

Car and Driver is full of crap my LGT in it's best day got 18/25 the Sonata I have gets 23/34 in real world driving. btw I run it at 75/80 on the highway.

 

You didn't read the specs on the engines and stuff huh? I didn't realize that Sonata came with a six cylinder. Your LGT would blow away the Sonata CD tested. The four cylinder Legacy stopped as quick, changed lanes faster, cost less, had awd and had smaller tires. Your Sonata was slightly faster on a dry track to 60 and through the quarter mile.

 

I think you misread the article and were thinking it was about the LGT or 6.

[Jacks GT]

Jesus man. Bosco was simply stating that he did the research, and bought the more powerful Sonata 2.0T. It is quicker, 0-60 and 1/4 mile than all three Legacys. It is also cheaper, better put together, more effcient and better equipped. Everything I have read has told me the Sonata stops quicker dry/wet and has higher lane change speeds. You can wave the AWD flag all you like, but at the end of the day, the Hyundai will still be the better car.

[thefultonhow]

If Hyundai offered a competitor for the G37 sedan (kind of a sedan version of the Genesis Coupe), I'd buy it. My girlfriend's parents got a Genesis Coupe, and besides the auto (nobody in her family can drive stick) and the blue interior lighting, it's a NICE car.

[Jacks GT]

If Hyundai offered a competitor for the G37 sedan (kind of a sedan version of the Genesis Coupe), I'd buy it. My girlfriend's parents got a Genesis Coupe, and besides the auto (nobody in her family can drive stick) and the blue interior lighting, it's a NICE car.

They do....the Genesis, get your cheque book out!

[thefultonhow]

They do....the Genesis, get your cheque book out!

 

How did I know someone was going to say that. The Genesis and the Genesis Coupe are completely different classes of cars. The Genesis competes with the Infiniti M37/M56; the Genesis Coupe competes with the Infiniti G37 Coupe. I want a RWD Hyundai sedan which competes with the G25/G37 Sedan, and that just doesn't exist. The Genesis Sedan is much bigger than the coupe, has different engines, and isn't available with a manual transmission.

[black318i]

 

Back to Hyundai, I can't seem to follow their decision logic.

 

They offer a good package, but skimp on the things that would make them a better value. The 5.0R-spec is an awesome car with a good price ($46,500). But why skimp on things like skinny-doors and cheaper feeling controls? The devil is in the details, and I feel like a lot of what they do only targets the bottom line and the big picture. While that's an OK view to have, why not go the extra mile, eat a little profit, and produce a car people are not only eager to buy, but eager to convince others to buy?

 

 

Hyundai, I think, is struggling to find that hook. They attempted to snag people with the 10yr-100k warranty, but that wasn't enough. People wanted something more. The warranty they gave didn't instill the confidence they wanted, but had an opposite effect ("Hey, we'll pay for it when it's in the shop every other week"). The Genesis was a good attempt at bait, but I can't see people being fiercely loyal to the brand like Ford or Chevy truck owners are. Maybe the next revision will change things, only time will tell.

 

 

You have got to be kidding.

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/cr-recommended/best-worst-in-car-reliability/reliability-findings/reliability-findings.htm

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/08/hyundai-tops-brand-keys-customer-loyalty-survey/

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/01/hyundai-4th-largest-automaker-overtakes-ford/

[bosco]

I still love Subaru and in the coming months I will replace the '03 Forster my wife drives with a 2012 Impreza which gets the big mileage now and has the AWD I want my wife to have. If I could only afford one car it would be a Subaru with AWD.

To me a car is nothing but a tool each one designed to do a certain job and you have to decide what your needs are. If I want a nice ride and great mileage I use the Sonata if I want speed and handling few road cars can match I take the Corvette if I have to haul stuff or the weather turns really nasty I use the Forester.

I realize everyone does not have that luxury but at this point in my life I do so as long as I have one Subaru I'm good to go.

 

 

btw resale value is a joke unless it's some special model car they all lose money. Cars are one of the worst investments ever.

[Magic Marker]

Are you going to order sight unseen?

[bosco]

Are you going to order sight unseen?

 

I'll watch my dealers website and wait until a loaded 2012 is on their lot then take it from there.

 

It will be a new Impreza it's just when.

[hmmrdwn]

You have got to be kidding.

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/cr-recommended/best-worst-in-car-reliability/reliability-findings/reliability-findings.htm

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/08/hyundai-tops-brand-keys-customer-loyalty-survey/

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/01/hyundai-4th-largest-automaker-overtakes-ford/

 

Yeah bigger is better. Let's sell cars to Hertz, Avis, Enterprise, corporate america for fleet cars, shuttle vehicles, etc. Fleet cars are always better. Look at Chevy Impalas, Ford Crown Vics, etc. Those are desirable quality cars.

[thefultonhow]

Yeah bigger is better. Let's sell cars to Hertz, Avis, Enterprise, corporate america for fleet cars, shuttle vehicles, etc. Fleet cars are always better. Look at Chevy Impalas, Ford Crown Vics, etc. Those are desirable quality cars.

 

You ignored the first two links.

 

What do you have against Hyundai? It's obvious you don't like them, but why?

[Penguin]

He's a Subaru Fan-boi, he will automatically find fault with any brand of car that is not a Subaru.

[hmmrdwn]

You guys still got nothing huh?

 

http://www.enterprisecarsales.com/car/3548/2011_HYUNDAI_Sonata_GLS_Sedan_4D

[EvoFire]

We can't block people here? I hate reading non nonsensical biased posts. I kind of feel like reading Jalopnik right now where Toyota must die....

[Ridgeracer]

I don't know guys. First off let's try to leave the drive train war to another thread...mmmkay. I hope this new coupe from Subaru is the business because quite frankly they make boring cars again outside of the Sti and WRX.