Grab some coffee. Let's talk about Hyundai

[Penguin]

Jesus you really are a koolaid drinker aren't you?

 

AWD is nice, but it is not a must have. I also live in an area that sees a fair amount of snow (Black Hills) and cold winters, I rarely if ever need to put my truck into 4 wheel drive to get anywhere on a road. About the only time I have had to have AWD 4 wheel drive or whatever is on the few rare occasions where I have gotten in from a trip (I am a locomotive engineer) in the middle of the night during or after a big snow and the state has stopped plowing the roads. Even then it isn't a really big deal to get home which is a 24 mile trip for me. I can count on one hand the number of times that has happened. Frankly with enough weight over the drive axle and good tires all around I probably don't need 4 wheel drive even then, just enough ground clearance to not be pushing snow with the bumper and I'm good to go.

 

The rain soaked road scenario is laughably stupid. Are you implying that it is not possible to operate a motor vehicle on wet pavement unless all the wheels are driven? Really?

[black318i]

That has to be the ugliest car I've ever seen. Someday Hyundai will be top flight automaker. That time has come yet.

 

The value of awd to someone who lives in the white and wet areas surpasses anything Hyundai can do for you. The first accident avoided by awd wipes out any performance or warranty advantage a Hyundai might have.

 

I lived in upstate NY for three years and one of those years was 98 when there was a big ice storm. I never had an issue with FWD even in close to a half a foot of snow or even rocking my way over a berm well over a foot tall left by plows and that's on all season tires. Know the limits of your car and you won't have any issues. Also as far as the Genesis being ugly, well that's personal opinion. I never really got why people who review cars spend so much time on telling you about the exterior styling of a car when you can see it and judge for yourself. Nobody is going to sway my decision on whether a car looks good to me or not.

[LosAngelesLGT]

Only someone who does not know how to drive (ie - thinks its good practice to generally get off throttle or brake mid turn) would suggest there is not advantage in AWD.

[Jacks GT]

You're right, after going through the RAF offensive and defensive driving school, running in rally cross for several years, 35 years of driving on the roads of the world and running my own driving school, I have no idea how to drive, please educate me.

 

Tell you what, as you are all knowing, why don't you let the guys in F1, NASCAR, ALMS, IndyCar, AV8S know that they've been getting it wrong all this time! AWD is much quicker than anything else!

[Ridgeracer]

Well I'm to the point that it doesn't matter what wheels drives the car. If you don't have the right tires for the driving conditions your going to have problems. Case in point...I got stuck in snow with the LGT cause I didn't have winter tires and ground clearance(which would stop any car).

 

BTW...I have my cup of coffee and bowl of Capt 'N Crunch...lol

[EvoFire]

Wonder how discussion of Hyundai got derailed into talking about the benefits of AWD. But let me stir the pot a little

 

The benefits of AWD cannot be denied, be it in dry, wet, or snowy conditions, tires notwithstanding. HOWEVER! Wait let me try that again, HOWEVER!!! Its a double edged sword, it can get you into trouble just as quickly. AWD will probably do you more bad than good if you don't know how to handle it properly. I say that because lets be honest, 90% of the people in North America SUCK at driving. Ever notice whenever it snows its always the AWD cars that fall into the ditches first?

 

I have driven AWD for 4 years, there are still times where I screw up in the snow. (almost fell in a ditch last year) Touch wood, haven't had any accidents in snowy weather yet.

 

Let's get back to Hyundai..............

 

Do anyone of you will go out and buy a Hyundai right now and expect to drive it for 10 years? I'm not sure I can do that yet. I quite like their new cars and I'm actually excited for when the new Elantra Touring comes. But I'm still wary about their mechanical reliability. I already know first hand how bad their paint is right now, its agreed within the detailing circle now that polishing a Hyundai is asking for hell as you'll probably burn through the clear with just one corrective polish.

[hmmrdwn]

Two questions:

 

1. Does anyone here understand the purpose and results that come from a skid pad and how awd, fwd and rwd compare?

 

2. Does anyone understand the inherent problems with a front wheel drive car?

 

I guess not. Anyone who has driven a front wheel drive car in wet weather or competitively should understand the problem with FWD. The problem is simple....the front wheels do all the work and they understeer understeer horribly.

 

The empirical evidence is in rally car racing. Do you see any front wheel drive cars competing and winning on a regular basis in rally car racing? No. It's like seeing a front wheel drive Indy or Nascar platform. Front wheel drive is limited. Rear wheel drive has it's limitations.

 

Yeah, depending on where you live, you may only need awd a small portion of the time. You can easily get by without awd in many areas. Doesn't mean that awd isn't better.

[BAC5.2]

There are FWD class rally cars...

 

If this is going to turn into an AWD/FWD/RWD pissing match, then perhaps the thread should be closed? I thought we were talking about cars, not drivetrain layouts?

[Ridgeracer]

Wonder how discussion of Hyundai got derailed into talking about the benefits of AWD. But let me stir the pot a little

 

The benefits of AWD cannot be denied, be it in dry, wet, or snowy conditions, tires notwithstanding. HOWEVER! Wait let me try that again, HOWEVER!!! Its a double edged sword, it can get you into trouble just as quickly. AWD will probably do you more bad than good if you don't know how to handle it properly. I say that because lets be honest, 90% of the people in North America SUCK at driving. Ever notice whenever it snows its always the AWD cars that fall into the ditches first?

 

I have driven AWD for 4 years, there are still times where I screw up in the snow. (almost fell in a ditch last year) Touch wood, haven't had any accidents in snowy weather yet.

 

Let's get back to Hyundai..............

 

Do anyone of you will go out and buy a Hyundai right now and expect to drive it for 10 years? I'm not sure I can do that yet. I quite like their new cars and I'm actually excited for when the new Elantra Touring comes. But I'm still wary about their mechanical reliability. I already know first hand how bad their paint is right now, its agreed within the detailing circle now that polishing a Hyundai is asking for hell as you'll probably burn through the clear with just one corrective polish.

 

Actually I'm quite partial to the Veloster. Very interesting car. Would be even better with a DI 2.0T. As for keeping long term. First off I'm at a point where I would rather buy a car slightly used vs. new regardless of brand to let someone else take the depreciation hit. Second with way things are now in the economy, I expect to drive any car regardless of brand for 10 years as well. Helps to have that 10 year warranty. Hopefully it is not a shop queen....

[RuskiTrombone]

Ever notice whenever it snows its always the AWD cars that fall into the ditches first?

 

No, I see mostly BMW's in the ditches around here after the massive one to two inch snowfalls.

[05GT Guru]

Two questions:

 

1. Does anyone here understand the purpose and results that come from a skid pad and how awd, fwd and rwd compare?

 

2. Does anyone understand the inherent problems with a front wheel drive car?

 

I guess not. Anyone who has driven a front wheel drive car in wet weather or competitively should understand the problem with FWD. The problem is simple....the front wheels do all the work and they understeer understeer horribly.

 

The empirical evidence is in rally car racing. Do you see any front wheel drive cars competing and winning on a regular basis in rally car racing? No. It's like seeing a front wheel drive Indy or Nascar platform. Front wheel drive is limited. Rear wheel drive has it's limitations.

 

Yeah, depending on where you live, you may only need awd a small portion of the time. You can easily get by without awd in many areas. Doesn't mean that awd isn't better.

 

All 3 FWD, RWD, AWD have pros and cons. They each have there place for different people and applications. AWD is nice but i have driven plenty of RWD cars with snow tires that drove just as nice as my legacy i nthe snow.

 

As for the skid pad, the 2002 WS6 obtained more Gs and a high mph than the McClaren F1. Does that mean its better?

[BAC5.2]

It does if you have hair 6x as long on the back of your head, as you do on the front...

[05GT Guru]

It does if you have hair 6x as long on the back of your head, as you do on the front...

 

Well then thats a yes in my case.

[BAC5.2]

Mullet? Sweet. Keep on rockin'.

 

Did the WS6 really out-do the Mclaren on the skid pad? What about the slalom? Crazy!

[05GT Guru]

Mullet? Sweet. Keep on rockin'.

 

Did the WS6 really out-do the Mclaren on the skid pad? What about the slalom? Crazy!

 

It did, F1 got .86gs, ws6 .88gs

 

Slalom f1 was 64.2mph, ws6 64.5mph

 

There have been Ws6s that have gotten over 1.00gs with upgrades, so they arent completely crappy at handling but a F1 is on such a pedestal its just funny.

[BAC5.2]

.86G? Jeez, that car is really starting to show it's age. You can get almost any street car to push 1G these days.

 

I LOL'd at the slalom speeds.

[ShrinerMonkey]

Ha ha. There are some ignorant people (not saying you) that don't understand all the safety advantages of all wheel drive. It's understandable since stability control is improving the handling of front wheel drive and many people bought the front wheel drive sales pitch. All wheel drive does more than just make you go. It also helps you safely navigate corners, controllably slow under engine braking, control the car when hyrdoplaning, prevent loss of control under emergency situations, etc.

 

 

btw...it's safety not saftey.

If you are so knowledgeable about the safety benefits of AWD, explain how AWD helps in all of those situations. All of the above are affected almost entirely by TIRES, not what wheels are given power. It has been proven that a FWD car with winter tires will outperform an AWD car with all-season tires in winter driving. TIRES are the most important thing when it comes to safe handling.

 

99% of drivers will never push their cars hard enough to even experience under-steer or even have any idea what it is. Regardless, under-steer is easier and more predictable for most drivers to deal with than the dangerous throttle lift-off snap over-steer that Subaru's are notorious for. Subaru needed to use VDC to help control this behavior. So much for the inherent safety of AWD.

 

Have you tried the Purplesaurus Rex Kool-Aid? It's pretty good.

[fishbone]

Only someone who does not know how to drive

Unfortunately that is the vast majority of people.

Regarding lifting off, I'm ashamed to admit I counted myself amongst those people for the longest time and some times I still have to fight that instinct to this day.

Sorry, I guess I'm drinking the Kool Aid too. Subaru's AWD is without equal in my experience driving winters here.

[fishbone]

Ever notice whenever it snows its always the AWD cars that fall into the ditches first?

That is not awd at fault, it is drivers not judging road conditions.

For our state, it's mostly SUVs, followed by FWD cars, then trucks.

 

Now back to the thread at hand, it's actually Kia that is catching my eye moreso than Hyundai. I really like the Sportage but I have yet to see one "up close", as in test drive etc. I was dead set on a Forester for a family car, but now ...

[Magic Marker]

The new Sportage looks good inside and out, but did you notice how "thin" the tires are? I think my tires are wider then the Sportage's. The tires just don't seem wide enough for an SUV.

[05GT Guru]

The new Sportage looks good inside and out, but did you notice how "thin" the tires are? I think my tires are wider then the Sportage's. The tires just don't seem wide enough for an SUV.

 

You do not need wide tires on a tiny SUV. Its more about how tall they are and deep they are.

[JesseH]

Kia Sportage is the greatest SUV ever made, ldo.

[05GT Guru]

Yes the guy sporting the mullett would have the better car in the rain and snow. A McClaren, with all it's power and speed isn't worth crap in the rain and snow.

 

Never said rear wheel drive can't be driven in snow and can't do an acceptable job. Front wheel drive can also be driven in snow and is acceptable. They just aren't as good as all wheel drive.

 

Front wheel drive plows around corners with tons of understeer and rear wheel drive has trouble pushing it's own weight up an incline and can get loose in corners.

 

The You Tube video and many other third party tests out there confirm the safety benefits of all wheel drive. Feel free to research it if you have questions.

 

You complain about FWD with understeer you do realize that AWD has massive oversteer. RWD is really the best balanced you can get. I agree AWD is good for snow but rwd or FWD with snow tires can do just as good if not better than a AWD car with all seasons.

 

The McClaren to WS6 compare was to go with your does anyone know about a skid pad question. Recorded times on the skid pad are hard to compare because they all use different tires.

 

You are on a subaru forum so I think we have a good grasp of what AWD is and can do. All we are saying is that it is not Gods gift to motorsports and the automotive world as a whole.

[BAC5.2]

And again, this isn't an AWD vs all thread.

 

Back on topic?

[hmmrdwn]

If you are so knowledgeable about the safety benefits of AWD, explain how AWD helps in all of those situations. All of the above are affected almost entirely by TIRES, not what wheels are given power. It has been proven that a FWD car with winter tires will outperform an AWD car with all-season tires in winter driving. TIRES are the most important thing when it comes to safe handling.

 

99% of drivers will never push their cars hard enough to even experience under-steer or even have any idea what it is. Regardless, under-steer is easier and more predictable for most drivers to deal with than the dangerous throttle lift-off snap over-steer that Subaru's are notorious for. Subaru needed to use VDC to help control this behavior. So much for the inherent safety of AWD.

 

Have you tried the Purplesaurus Rex Kool-Aid? It's pretty good.

 

Is the smell of smoking front tires from accelerating, turning and braking intoxicating?