Avo 380 tubro

[Scooby2.5]

Here we go with the 380 bashing AGAIN. Now in a new thread, BNR thread no less:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bnr-hta68-thread-140671p38.html

[KCwagon]

I love the inherent chaos of having circular arguments inside a linear thread.

[LittleBlueGT]

Lets see fahr_side here is a good comparison to my AVO380 vs a friend of mines BNR16g both on E85 and on the same Mustang dyno by the same tuner, Calvin Dotson at Cobb Plano and pretty close to same mods....

 

Shawns Car - 05 LGT - E85, AVO tmic, DW 850cc's, Cobb downpipe, stock cat- back, stock intake. Turbo=BNR16G

 

Gregs car - 05 XT - E85, AVO tmic, DW 850cc's, Cobb downpipe, 3" cat - back , AVO intake. Turbo=AVO380

 

 

http://accessecu.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&rpm=1&sl=1&sln=1&runid1=2453&rgb1=000000255&runid2=81&rgb2=204000000

 

Not that I care anymore, but did anyone notice the above in bold?

 

The turbos are close, but my 68HTA ( I know slightly different then the above) spooled a bit better, and made a bit more top-end power then my AVO380.

[Scooby2.5]

My main point LBGT in posting the comparison was to show the difference to fair_sides EFI logics 16g vs 380 in a previous post. If you look the tunes between the 380 and the 16g in his post are the exact opposite of what we got

 

I definitely noticed or knew about the exhaust and intake on shawns car, hence the reason I said pretty close to same mods.

 

No doubt a motor is an air pump, thats all it is and if the intake and exhaust are bottle necks well you will not flow more air.

 

I think calvin even said, that he maxed out the flow If i remember correctly on shawns 16g.

 

Anyway I am just tired of those that just continue to tell everyone that the AVO is a pile of crap like the last post that got this started in the BNR thread.

 

Anybody that followed and read your tuning on the 380 and what you got with the 68HTA knew that it flowed more air at the top with it being a 47 lb/min turbo

 

 

Im really curious about the newer 2.5xtr 49lb polka pickle by blouch and the 440xt they have out for the legacy.

 

FMIC going on mine this weekend and then for my final tune at Cobb

[Subyduby-doo]

Blouch has a Leggy fitment 440?

[Scooby2.5]

http://www.bptstore.com/Subaru-Legacy-GT-440XT-Turbocharger-_p_114.html

[coldsubycz]

I'm curious, all this talk about the AVO380, are we referring to the original or the new "v2" that came out a year ago? What are people's experiences with the "newer" version?

 

From this post it sounds like it has been updated:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/new-avo380-134108.html?p=3170720

[Scooby2.5]

My turbo is a Versions 1 AVO420 converted to a 380 with a Version 2 AVO380 exhaust housing, as seen in the thread you linked to. You can see me asking paul the question about my housing in that thread

[coldsubycz]

I saw that after I posted, sorry... but i can redeem myself by asking if anyone has the Version 2 exhaust and compressor side

[fahr_side]

The AVO 380 is a expensive pile of crap. Unless you want vf52 power with slower spool. It is a reliable turbo but poorly matched for our engine.

 

I agree 100%, I do not like the 380.

[lieutenantcolumbo]

seems like they've backed off their comments somewhat:

 

I do apologize for starting this argument. I guess being more of a wrx tuner I think of the vf52 as a baseline and I have only seen marginal gains over a vf52 to make it not seem worth the money. Spool was similar but for an extra 15-20 hp doesn't seem worth it from what i have seen.

 

Honestly, its the pump gas results I tend to not like. There are simply better options when comparing price and performance. I can't go to far into as I have received some nasty messages from the AVO camp in the past. FWIW if I were to find one for the price you paid then my opinion would be much different.

 

I'll agree now there are probably better ball bearing turbos out there NOW. I know when I got my AVO 380 there weren't as many options and the BNR's were just coming out. Not being rude, but seeing the failure reports on these BNR's since then only reinforces my decision. I took out my turbo before it failed and before it took out my motor.

 

A lot of the argument against the AVO380 seem to be centered on price. To me that's kind like saying why by a Rolex when a Timex will do the same thing. But there is the fact that a turbo failure can be catastrophic, where a watch you can pitch and replace no worries.

[Scooby2.5]

For Fahr_Side

and another thing.... the second dyno plot (posted by sumfoo 1) has the avo380 spooling curiously late. almost as if the tune was using the cobb stage 2 AVCS table rather than one optimized for a 380. when I first played with a 380 I did the same thing. spool up was terrible (and quite similar to that plot) till the avcs table was adjusted.

[Scooby2.5]

****MOVED FROM BNR68 THREAD*****

 

OK guys I am listening what is it that you think is bad about this graph and these numbers on a AVO380, FMIC tuned on E85 by Tim Bailey on a Mustang Dyno at Surgline? The car is hitting 300 wtq at 3000 RPM. This was the off the shelf maps he created for Cobb that they were selling with the Rallitek stage 3 kit.

 

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65660&d=1238444603

 

 

Here is mine with an AVO TMIC for comparisons sake by Calvin Dotson of Cobb who was trained by Tim, and by the way peak boost on e85 was 20 not 21 dyno was off a point:

 

http://gallery.me.com/gregnauman/100026/Nauman-20AVO-20380-20Dyno-20Graph/web.jpg?

 

******NOTE****** This is a TMIC graph

 

Seriously infamous what is wrong with my graph here, I want to know. No one in any of these arguments has looked at my graph or the ones tim bailey performed and said anything.

 

My pump gas plot is right there in dotted line format for you. Please take into consideration Calvin wanted to know where I got the fuel because it was knocking like crazy so we had to quit pushing it on the pump gas in the above graph. We did not have to do that with the E85.

 

 

Ive seen worse 20g and BNR 68 plots than either of these.

 

 

Im also really curious if eminehart had tuned a 380 or just a 420?????

 

 

Does he have any plots he can show us?????

 

 

 

We can take this back to the AVO tubro (sic) thread

[fahr_side]

A lot of the argument against the AVO380 seem to be centered on price. To me that's kind like saying why by a Rolex when a Timex will do the same thing.

No. You missed the point again. There is no problem with the price-point IF the quality and performance are there. There are now lots of high-quality, high performance turbos available in this price range like ATP's stock-location 3071R, Blouch's DOMs and 380XT or 440XT.

 

$1800 for a turbo is ok but not for obsolete housings slapped onto GT28 CHRA. I'll buy a GTX or EFR for this money. Want to characterize one of those as a Timex against your Rolex?

[Scooby2.5]

Here is a comparison for you guys. This is a local friend in the KC Subaru club

 

His 20g, AVO FMIC, AVO inlet, AVO CAI Cobb catted down pipe and Cobb exhaust. 08 Spec B

 

My 380, AVO TMIC, stock inlet, AVO CAI, Cobb catted down pipe and Autospeed exhaust. 05 Outback XT

 

So tell me why his pump gas tune done on the same dyno with the same tuner looks like this. I have a theory, can you guess what that might be?

 

Temp could be one thing, but the dyno does correction for ambient temp.

 

This 20g tune looks mysteriously like an AVO420 or some of the not so good AVO380 tunes.

 

Note: my power numbers are not as high because of the cruddy gas I had causing knock but tell me what the difference in these two graphs are.

 

http://accessecu.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&rpm=1&sl=1&sln=1&runid1=2301&rgb1=000000255&runid2=80&rgb2=000153000

[Scooby2.5]

No. You missed the point again. There is no problem with the price-point IF the quality and performance are there. There are now lots of high-quality, high performance turbos available in this price range like ATP's stock-location 3071R, Blouch's DOMs and 380XT or 440XT.

 

$1800 for a turbo is ok but not for obsolete housings slapped onto GT28 CHRA. I'll buy a GTX or EFR for this money. Want to characterize one of those as a Timex against your Rolex?

 

You guys were bashing the poorly tuned AVO380 BEFORE all these other new turbos of the month came out, and your arguments back then were unfounded

 

a·nach·ro·nism   [uh-nak-ruh-niz-uhm] Show IPA

noun

1.

something or someone that is not in its correct historical or chronological time, especially a thing or person that belongs to an earlier time: The sword is an anachronism in modern warfare.

2.

an error in chronology in which a person, object, event, etc., is assigned a date or period other than the correct one: To assign Michelangelo to the 14th century is an anachronism.

[lieutenantcolumbo]

No. You missed the point again. There is no problem with the price-point IF the quality and performance are there. There are now lots of high-quality, high performance turbos available in this price range like ATP's stock-location 3071R, Blouch's DOMs and 380XT or 440XT.

 

$1800 for a turbo is ok but not for obsolete housings slapped onto GT28 CHRA. I'll buy a GTX or EFR for this money. Want to characterize one of those as a Timex against your Rolex?

 

My point exactly. So why a BNR16G?????? Would have been the last on my list with the turbos available today.....unless I had a high mileage car I didn't want to sink a lot of money in, and didn't care if my turbo took out the motor.

 

I've seen people on their third BNR turbo, while mine is still ticking (kudos for him replacing them under warranty though).

 

I've had both a VF52 and BNR turbo. Tough tough call between the VF52 and BNR16G. The people that claim the BNR turbo is more reliable clearly aren't reading too many threads here. I've seen a lot more issues with BNR turbos than I have with VF52's. I think I've only seen 1 VF52 on this forum ever have an issue. As for powerband, they seem to be darn near identical. 1-year warranty either way. I'd say it is pretty much a wash. With Bryan at least you get personal service but if you get the VF52 from Fredbeans, you'll get great service too. Get a quote from fredbeans on the VF52. I'd let it come down to whichever one is cheaper.

 

Just wait a while, they'll be a new turbo of the month. :lol:

[LittleBlueGT]

Do you love your turbo that much that you have to defend it all day long?

[apexjapan]

It's a popcorn muncher of a thread still...

 

I've yet to see exactly what reasons our housings are obsolete for - especially considering that neither Blouch or ATP seem to be offering ball-bearing turbochargers built specifically for the Legacy (or 08+ WRX). Plenty of old-style wrx/sti designs, though. Probably the reason that we still seem to be the only ones is because we cast our own housings, not reuse housings.

 

But yeah, since we actually support the Legacy market, since we actually did the initial R&D and made products before anybody else did, we must be a crappy company with crappy products, unlike other companies that only jump on the bandwagon after somebody else develops the market for them.

 

I'm pretty sure that when other companies copy our turbo kits for the 2.5i Legacies 5 years from now, we'll yet again be lambasted for daring to support this market.

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

http://www.facebook.com/avoturboworld

[xero287]

I <3 you AVO.

[bosco]

There is no perfect turbo.

 

Like with turbo's everything in life is a trade-off you have to give up something to get something.

 

 

Closed.