Scooby2.5 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Scoobie2.5, It's pretty sad if the only way you can continue to defend your purchase is with personal attacks or putting words in my mouth. I have come to view you with such contempt that I refuse to engage you further. At this point I'd add a snub but people I actually respect would be accusing me again of needless brutality. I just wonder how many of the other 380 owners and ex-owners, given all of the new offerings that are now available, and now choosing a turbo for their current build, would again buy the AVO. If you were in the same position as at purchase time, had to buy new, but now had all the other choices... what would you buy? fahr_side, Im sorry if you feel that way about me, I know most on this forum don't. Ill say I don't feel that way toward you, even though you are saying things that are just not true. I have not put words in your mouth, I have only quoted what you posted. I am just honestly over the years sick and tired of the people on this board who get out here and start comparing turbos of the month (RAO) and really in all honestly as Paul and others have said are not doing FAIR Comparisons. I remember early on it was the 20g vs the AVO380 both about 44lb turbos or at least rated at that. There was multiple versions of 20g yet everyone was so pro the 20g (a very good turbo I almost purchased) and ANTI the 380 it was ridiculous. And in the comparisons half the time you didn't even know what 20g it was. I remember people putting down about 375whp on E85 on the 20g and saying the AVO380 wasn't even close to that. If you began to look at the dyno charts you soon would realize they were not comparing apples to apples. Fueling, elevation, temperature, FMIC vs TMIC, what other supporting mods. Did it have a full 3 inch exhaust, was it on a mustang or dynojet dyno etc. etc. etc. Then that video I posted above with Tim Bailey and seeeeya and littleblue were getting great results. You can see some of this in the AVO turbo thread I started. Nobody said a word when Tim bailey put down 375/430 to the wheels on E85 with an AVO STI TMIC on a Mustang Dyno. Even though almost all the 20g graphs were FMIC which should be even better. Anyway long and short of it, I see too many guys not comparing things fairly and and to me it was ALL OVER THIS THREAD AGAIN. For example, your ATPGT3071 or 3076 turbo is a garrett 3.0 series cartridge not a 2871R used in the AVO turbo. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Another example. AVO380 is a 2871R, AVO420 is a 2871R with larger housing (IMHO not a good match) but the AVO450 is a garret 3.0 series. Most do not know this. I think the tuner makes a big difference as well, as you can see from some of the different AVO graphs, that still cant be totally compared. Too many variables. I was at Cobb plano when two identical STI's came in for E85 tunes. They were friends and one wanted to out do the other. One did put a bit more power/torque down than the other one and we were trying to figure out why. Shortly it was discovered/remembered that one had a catted downpipe (If I remember correctly) and the other didn't. It would have been dead even otherwise. Thats the way the cars should be compared. Side by side same mods, same dyno, same tuner, only difference the turbo. Period. All the rest is speculation at best. Im not a die hard AVO380 fan nor do I do marketing for AVO. I just know from experience THIS turbo has gotten a bad rap and all the bashing is just not true. Anyway you asked me a good question..... If I didn't have the AVO at the moment and I was looking I would probably go with a straight garrett 3071 maybe, or HTA68 or 20g, or maybe even the new borg warner turbos. Would I consider the AVO380 in all this. Yes. I do factor in the reliability as I drive 30,000 miles a year working in the X-Ray field, so I would probably stay with some sort of BB cartridge. Hell the cartridges on the ATP site are 800 or more. Just do me a favor, go back from the beginning of this thread and just read all your quotes, some of them unfounded IMHO and put yourself in Paul Hanson's shoes. You flat said some things that were not true, were unfair IMHO and Paul is selling products for AVO. I am sure that is great for business when people are posting graphs by a tuner that cant tune to save his life. Then everyone says AVO sucks.... All the guys on this forum that have had an AVO380, the correct supporting mods, a good tuner, good fuel, have never had the complaints that you and others in the past have said. Interesting factor in that......They never owned one! So to all those looking at the AVO380, while I might purchase something different to try something different, if I had to do it over again, I might also purchase the same thing I now have. Ask Littlebluegt, he switched to the hta68, has it been a bit better, sure, but it is also a larger rated turbo and has the newer style compressor wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 A few failures definitely, but he stands behind his products and has been top notch. Also remember, his turbos were recommended by a lot of people, and for a lot of people, for catastrophical vf40 failures. Cars which suffered that disaster already had a few nails in the coffin, unfortunately that transferred to new turbos added to them as well. That wasn't all cases of failure and it's yet to be seen if larger oil orifices on the oil lines have caused the other problems. Just look at this guys signature....Have mercy its at altitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Just look at this guys signature....Have mercy its at altitude I don't get it... I'd love to dyno at your altitude, actually I love anytime I take any car from up here down to the midwest, so much more power... I wouldn't have the fuel to make that happen safely right now... OK Ok, I'll change my signature, that way when people ask why my stage 2 dyno was only 220ish and the new turbo is only 260 I'll have to explain the whole absolute vs relative pressure thing and how air at 5500' is less dense so we make considerably less power here... I lust for sea level air, although V8s get affected badly here too, so that is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Is Mobil 1 OK for turbo use? Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I don't get it... I'd love to dyno at your altitude, actually I love anytime I take any car from up here down to the midwest, so much more power... I wouldn't have the fuel to make that happen safely right now... OK Ok, I'll change my signature, that way when people ask why my stage 2 dyno was only 220ish and the new turbo is only 260 I'll have to explain the whole absolute vs relative pressure thing and how air at 5500' is less dense so we make considerably less power here... I lust for sea level air, although V8s get affected badly here too, so that is nice. Im proud of you for posting DETAILS about your tune....if you didn't somebody would come along and say...your turbo stinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 LBGT got me all hot and bothered about the new turbos from FR, but that is quieted down. I hope to get you all hot and bothered again, but delays are annoying. I have delayed my next car to a 2012 STI, in hopes that the EFR stuff will be all sorted out by then. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2092229&page=7 Post 154. Guy is from Washington so I am pretty sure Tim Bailey did the tune... Cobb/Surgeline MUSTANG DYNO if I am correct that he tuned it. Very similar numbers to what Tim and Sean did on the STI with STI AVO TMIC. "My sleeper-ish 08. The headlights no longer have tint and I'm stealthing the front mount if it doesn't sell. Mods include AVO 380 turbo, AVO front mount, 850cc injectors, and supporting mods for E85. On E85 she put down 380whp/440wtq." FUEL and the TUNA....with correct supporting mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I am just honestly over the years sick and tired of the people on this board who get out here and start comparing turbos of the month (RAO) and really in all honestly as Paul and others have said are not doing FAIR Comparisons. Keep me out of this. Also, my comments about the turbo of the month serve the exact opposite purpose. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 He only meant to give you credit to the "turbo of the month" expression. You're entirely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Exactly, I was just using RAO's coined phrase that I agree with. Guess I should have phrased it different or put quotes around it. Always love it when he says that, cracks me up LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Is Mobil 1 OK for turbo use? Ask uncle scotty on NASIOC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Lets see fahr_side here is a good comparison to my AVO380 vs a friend of mines BNR16g both on E85 and on the same Mustang dyno by the same tuner, Calvin Dotson at Cobb Plano and pretty close to same mods.... Shawns Car - 05 LGT - E85, AVO tmic, DW 850cc's, Cobb downpipe, stock cat- back, stock intake. Turbo=BNR16G Gregs car - 05 XT - E85, AVO tmic, DW 850cc's, Cobb downpipe, 3" cat - back , AVO intake. Turbo=AVO380 http://accessecu.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&rpm=1&sl=1&sln=1&runid1=2453&rgb1=000000255&runid2=81&rgb2=204000000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 ^^ Great comparison. 380>>16G throughout the powerband. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 The 380 is better down low, and up top it simply laughs and runs away. No surprises here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Agreed, there is a 2psi difference between those two plots though just for posterity sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Just FYI mine was only 20 PSI, they had a problem with the dyno where it was reading one point high when I was there but not when Shawn was. They corrected it after I was there. Also compare these two cars and tunes to the EFI logics tune Fahr_side posted up in POST #72. I don't know who did the tune but both of ours are much better. It helps to have a tuner that was trained by Tim Bailey one of the best in the country. Not to mention Calvin and Tim have worked on many of the standard Cobb AP mapping. It's all about fuel quality and the tuner once all the other things are similar. Anybody wonder why I drive 8 hours for my tune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Oh and by the way, I have a FMIC going on my car in the next few weeks. Cobb is going to do the final tune sometime in October. Ill be sure to post up the lousy AVO380 with FMIC results when I get the plot. My goal is to get close to what Bailey and Sean got in the video in post number 93. We shall see..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieutenantcolumbo Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for the great information Greg. I also have the AVO 380 with Tim Bailey maps (93 octane) tweaked by Sean Sexton (RalliTek Deluxe Package). So it's great to see what these things can do since I've never had mine on a dyno. Still on the fence about a FMIC since I have a Labonte meth kit for safety/cooling purposes. I'll be anxiously awaiting your results to see if I "need" to get one of those next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kits gt limited Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Where do you think I would be with a BNR 16g, or AVO 380 on this set up AVO TMIC DW 740's 94 octane rocket racket rally DP Stromung cat back 70mm intake 5EAT IPR valve body Crawford oil separator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Where do you think I would be with a BNR 16g, or AVO 380 on this set up AVO TMIC DW 740's 94 octane rocket racket rally DP Stromung cat back 70mm intake 5EAT IPR valve body Crawford oil separator Probably Vancouver knee slapper! It's between you and your tuner if you want to squeeze every last drop of power or run conservatively...especially with your trans. Talk with them to see what they think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kits gt limited Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ball bearing all the way, Is what they think. I was curious more on Octane to e85. They had a grin on their face when they suggested AVO 380 with HS6 kit, but that has been discontinued. They feel trans is good to about 300 on their dyno. Pat is a good tuner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieutenantcolumbo Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 They feel trans is good to about 300 on their dyno. Pat is a good tuner! ^^ Good luck with that, its a roll of the dice. Get a valve body upgrade before you put in the AVO 380, it will be much cheaper. Had my AVO 380 installed in December '09. Had my transmission totally rebuilt and upgraded in mid February '10. If you don't get the valve body upgrade you could prolong your tranny's life by using manual mode (higher line pressure) and making sure you never go wot in 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 ^^ Good luck with that, its a roll of the dice. Get a valve body upgrade before you put in the AVO 380, it will be much cheaper. Had my AVO 380 installed in December '09. Had my transmission totally rebuilt and upgraded in mid February '10. If you don't get the valve body upgrade you could prolong your tranny's life by using manual mode (higher line pressure) and making sure you never go wot in 5th. That about parallels my own 380 experience. IPT to the rescue... to the total tune of many $$$. Went to pass on a hill in 5th, tranny downshifted and hit the limiter. Toast. Hobbled around on the first three until I parked it to be repaired a couple weeks later. The IPT replacement 5EAT and TQ, however, made the car very quick. At the 750hp min IPT quoted I never worried about it either. If it weren't for the cost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieutenantcolumbo Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I currently would recommend the HexMod Valve Body over IPT's since it has come to light that all IPT does is put a single heavier spring in their "valve body upgrade." In fact, I had an IPT valve body in my car before the tranny failed. Sold it and had a local shop adapt a TransGo kit to my car along with extra 4th & 5th gear clutches, borg warner clutches, high stall rewelded torque converter, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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