Avo 380 tubro

[fahr_side]

Actually I don't think the AVO380 is the most expensive. There is also the 420 and 450

Thanks for the reminder. I bet those owners are even more protective of their purchasing decisions than the 380 guys!

 

I would like to say that I'm betting avo gets a bad rep because they are bolt on and can be installed with minimum mods that this is exactly what has been happening. People put them on nearly stock cars and then dyno them at 18lbs of boost and say this turbo is laggy and makes no power when it makes the same power as any other turbo for that compressor size and mod list would and probably spools late because it's a 400hp turbo on a 330hp car with minimal stage 2 mods and low boost.

Well-constructed point, but the AVO380 vs. GT3076R graph above shows two cars with FMICs and injector upgrades. The '09 WRX there even has an STi intake manifold. I don't think these are 'basic stage 2 plus turbo swap' cars.

One of the points I'm making here is that the AVO doesn't fare well against other turbos based on the same guts. Now, whether that is the housings or some other issue I don't know. We know AVO there was something wrong with the original because they are now running a redesigned exhaust housing.

 

The other point is that the turbo cannot outperform much cheaper turbos (from reliable manufacturers) or outspool them. So that leaves the idea of it lasting forever? They say a cockroach will survive nuclear war but it doesn't make me want to date one.

[fahr_side]

People who bash the AVO380 are, in my words, ignorant. That doesn't mean stupid, necessarily, but it does mean uninformed and lacking knowledge.

 

My 05 LGT with AVO380 would stomp the living excrement out of anyone posting in this thread, with respect to 0-60 times. That takes spool, friends, spool and power early. Unless you can run successive 0-60 in 4.0 or less go home, now.

Post your plots or timeslips or go away. Not interested in street racing stories or unmeasurable mythical effects only the initiates can see. Plots or piss off.

[ehsnils]

OK, stick to being civilized or this thread will be killed.

[fahr_side]

OK, stick to being civilized or this thread will be killed.

My bad. I don't take well to being called ignorant because I disagree. While Seeya might not have deserved that, he had it coming. And, I don't see this thread going anywhere useful as none of the participants are about to change their minds.

[sumfoo1]

My personal opinion is their turbine is too small for the compressor wheels they run.

i mean the 380 has a 47mm turbine ? even a 16g uses a 55mm turbine

the 550 has a 55mm turbine... and is a 55lb/hr turbo.. that's bigger than a 3076 with a 5mm smaller turbine. A td06 20g uses a 60mm turbine too.

And i happen to think even garrett uses smallish turbines.

 

I think by the time the turbine is making the hp the compressor needs to do its job... its starting to choke... With an EWG on E85... these turbos may rock the house down. But my preference would be 20g, dom 2.5xtr, or atp3076

 

But maybe their aero is different than i'm used to.

[fishbone]

SeeeeYa (did I get the right number of a's?) has been around for a long time, has contributed a lot to these forums, has done a lot to his car, spent a lot of time, money, learned a lot, told a lot. If he says his 5EAT ran 60 back to back in 4, then that is what his 5EAT did. He has done the modding game out and out, chewed it up and spit it out. I believe his words more than a dyno plot any day, which can vary so much than it skirts the edge of being useless. I have seen 20G dyno plots. I would have never ever considered that turbo. Until I rode in a 20G-powered LGT. It was awesome. Even one of the few dyno plots you posted fahr_side "back to back", one run was done in June and another in November, one in September and anothe in December. There are so many variables that to me, if you want to post a truly relevant dyno comparison, they would have to at least be done the same week. The best, of course, would be the same car, same tuner, different turbos dynoed at the same temps.

If I hear airboy one more time I swear I'm going to have an aneurism.

Is this the Honda Ricer boards or what?

[LittleBlueGT]

I did a few logged (anal measuring tires, checking reported speed with GPS, etc..) 3.8 and 3.9 0-60s with my AVO380.

 

That being said, they do need to catch up. Maybe with a billet wheel, IDK.

[fahr_side]

SeeeeYa (did I get the right number of a's?) has been around for a long time, has contributed a lot to these forums, has done a lot to his car, spent a lot of time, money, learned a lot, told a lot.

Sorry, but I don't see him in that light. If he told me it would get dark again tonight I'd still wait and see. That diatribe about his stock TMIC has me pretty convinced he talks a lot but knows little. Maybe he just rubs me up the wrong way, and maybe I just dislike him for no particular reason. It is what it is.

[fishbone]

You may not see him in that light because you missed about 4 years of his activity around here. If he knows anything, it's his 5EAT and AVO.

[sumfoo1]

I did a few logged (anal measuring tires, checking reported speed with GPS, etc..) 3.8 and 3.9 0-60s with my AVO380.

 

That being said, they do need to catch up. Maybe with a billet wheel, IDK.

 

 

i think a billet wheel would only exacerbate the problem if the small turbines are the issue.

 

From what i've seen with the billet tech... it makes small turbos act larger, pushes boost threshold back some. What everyone says that i have no basis for comparison on is "the response is soo much better" which would make sense given the lighter wheel, but its also hard for me to prove its not delusions (feelings) trying to make people feel better about buying the more expensive turbo.

[fahr_side]

You may not see him in that light because you missed about 4 years of his activity around here.

I was lurking around here looong before I joined up.... on and off since about 1999. But, it's nice of you to stick up for him.

 

Fact is, time has moved on since the knowledgable people were using the AVO, and that was because there was nothing else out there in the bolt-up, stock-location class. Times have changed, the bar has been raised. Despite AVO changing the exhaust housing (I heard the old one was just too restrictive) they are in a dead-end with this. A billet wheel will help with flow but probably hurt spool, and that's already not at the front of the pack. More $ is difficult as the AVO already costs more than a GTX or EFR. I don't see where they can go next but a complete redesign.

[scoobydoobie]

AVO 380 requires FP/Injectors correct?

[fishbone]

I was lurking around here looong before I joined up.... on and off since about 1999. But, it's nice of you to stick up for him.

You are being needlessly brutal.

[fahr_side]

You are being needlessly brutal.

That wasn't my intention.

 

Waitaminit... this isn't the PM screen!

[sumfoo1]

At this point in this thread.... i would have went with "thats what your mom said"

but restoring civility is a nice gesture.

 

Anyone have some AVO 500 graphs.. that thing looks like it might do well.

its a AVO 450 with a bigger turbine.

[bosco]

I loved my AVO 380.

 

search > Bosco's tune day

[Scooby2.5]

Unless you bought it used. By the track record of these cartridges, i'd say that would make a worthy investment. Yes the deadbolt was expensive but that came with a lifetime rebuild warranty (now defunct since they no longer exist) and ported out of the box. I've got access to one so if my Avo turns out to be a "turd" , i'll side with your buddy in the avo bashing.

 

The guy you bought it from didn't think so did he? Can't remember his username.

Course we will never know until you install the dang thing

[Scooby2.5]

I think seeeeeya has it correct, "Ignorance".....

 

Here is my favorite part of this quote.....

 

How about we take a look then at the ATPGT3076R which has an assuredly similar Garrett BB center housing as your beloved AVO, but costs less.

 

 

Anybody want to chime in on what a garrett GT3076R is and why it might put down more power than an AVO380???? As you know it most assuredly has a similar center cartridge so it MUST be..... the housings....

 

Joel might be able to tell us

 

I don't know who tuned those cars, but I think Illl stick to my tuner trained by Tim Bailey....

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJa_0gT6HAg&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - ‪RalliTEK Stage3 Kit R&D‬‏[/ame]

 

 

Im done, I concede the AVO380 sucks and Id much rather have your BNR16g.....

 

He said it all in his profile, NOT ME:

 

About fahr_side

 

Location:

Lost

 

Occupation:

Village idiot

 

Car

'08 short wheelbase BNR16G LGT (aka WRX)

[joeleodee]

The guy you bought it from didn't think so did he? Can't remember his username.

Course we will never know until you install the dang thing

 

 

It was edmundu and he loved that turbo. Now it's been ported and coated so we shall see.......sometime. Now i'm waiting for my injectors. Just got built and will be shipping after some flow testing. It's always something. Rest assured, I will post plots of both 93 and e85 tunes so all can hate.

 

And I don't think you need me to explain the differences between the GT3076r and Avo 380 are as far as the center cartridges go.

[fahr_side]

Scoobie2.5, It's pretty sad if the only way you can continue to defend your purchase is with personal attacks or putting words in my mouth. I have come to view you with such contempt that I refuse to engage you further. At this point I'd add a snub but people I actually respect would be accusing me again of needless brutality.

 

I just wonder how many of the other 380 owners and ex-owners, given all of the new offerings that are now available, and now choosing a turbo for their current build, would again buy the AVO. If you were in the same position as at purchase time, had to buy new, but now had all the other choices... what would you buy?

[SeeeeeYa]

Scoobie2.5, It's pretty sad if the only way you can continue to defend your purchase is with personal attacks or putting words in my mouth. I have come to view you with such contempt that I refuse to engage you further. At this point I'd add a snub but people I actually respect would be accusing me again of needless brutality.

I just wonder how many of the other 380 owners and ex-owners, given all of the new offerings that are now available, and now choosing a turbo for their current build, would again buy the AVO. If you were in the same position as at purchase time, had to buy new, but now had all the other choices... what would you buy?

 

Now we are getting somewhere.

 

When I replaced my LGT's VF40 I did so primarily to gain reliability. There were no other options with a BB CHRA. Everything else was a hacked 18 or 20G, or prototypes that were mostly not available. I got what I wanted at the time.

 

But it was certainly not a drop in. TGV Deletes were not an option, but necessary for clearance, the TGV modules are incompatible with the turbo, and even then some filing of the TGV housing was necessary. At best it wasn't a great fit... but then NO stock location turbo is a great fit, IMO. After burning too much oil for a long time I found its CHRA was overwhelmed by oil pressure. A restrictor orifice cured that, and also increased spool, FWIW. No one talked about that.

 

Most of the positive results I got from the AVO380 had to do with my 5EAT's torque converter... and meth. ANY turbo, any setup, will benefit from meth and eclipse results from the identical setup without meth. Until E85 came along, that is. But E85 is not in some of our futures. With E85 or meth a lot of the hand-wringing over spool disappears.

 

Faced with choosing a new turbo today, for my WRX's essentially identical setup, it might not be an AVO380. I'd still get one with a BB CHRA, but which exact one is a subject I don't intend to explore. After the AVO experience I convinced myself that were I ever to go through the exercise again I would go rotated. At this point, however, I have a car I'm happy with... mostly.

[lieutenantcolumbo]

I bought mine as part of the RalliTek stage 3 kit and got a bunch of maps w/ it: valet, theft, 15 psi 93 oct, 18 psi 93 oct, 20 psi 93 oct, and a couple varying psi E85 maps as well (not widespread enough in sw PA). Tim Bailey did the original maps and Sean Sexton from RalliTek reviewed my logs and dialed in the tune for my car. So that saved some money on tunes (which I considered in the overall price when making the decision). Plus the tunes are Cobb approved, so there's some level of safety in them.

 

I'd do it again if the kits were still available, but unfortunately they just offer the individual components without the tunes.

[fishbone]

I thought BNR offerings were a no-brainer but the few failures seem to indicate they are not as bulletproof as I/we thought. As such, I am back to square 1, looking at the AVO380.

[SSpeed]

A few failures definitely, but he stands behind his products and has been top notch. Also remember, his turbos were recommended by a lot of people, and for a lot of people, for catastrophical vf40 failures. Cars which suffered that disaster already had a few nails in the coffin, unfortunately that transferred to new turbos added to them as well. That wasn't all cases of failure and it's yet to be seen if larger oil orifices on the oil lines have caused the other problems.

[SeeeeeYa]

I thought BNR offerings were a no-brainer but the few failures seem to indicate they are not as bulletproof as I/we thought. As such, I am back to square 1, looking at the AVO380.

 

See, that's the place I was in 'back when.' It is hard enough to do it once, doing it again "with a warranty" was not an option.

 

The AVO380 was worth that kind of peace of mind to me. It still is, and until that turbo comes along with a proven BB CHRA and is as reliable as the AVO is, it remains at the top of the available turbos I would consider. I will admit, however, I haven't looked for one.

 

The AVO380 on my old 05 LGT is still working the same as it did when I installed it, at ~100k as of last week. FWIW, I believe the smaller orifice I put in the oil supply corrected a couple wrongs I had for a while. With the correct equipment as installed the turbo's bearings were overwhelmed by Subaru's high oil pressure. That is appropriate pressure for our plain bearing turbos, but on the AVO with its BB CHRA it interfered with the operation of the bearings, and lost oil past them. With the reduced oil pressure the turbo was considerably different, easily evidenced by logging and by listening. Spool was more audible, and after shutting the car off and exiting the turbo would continue to spin down for many seconds. Previously it quit when the engine shut off. Calls to AVO revealed only their product info, and that "it comes with the correct orifice." Not.

 

LBGT got me all hot and bothered about the new turbos from FR, but that is quieted down. Other's offerings are either too new or too unproven for me. Doesn't matter, I prefer the size turbo that came with my car, the VF52. It is a fine DD turbo, and I've yet to hear of one eating a motor like the VF40. One thing for sure, no AVO380 is ever going to eat a motor.