2010 Winter Tire Tests

[MikeNH]

I ended up buying the General Arctic Altimax for the Legacy. So far the only difference is potholes aren't as jarring and panic stops are very violent.

[09_Red_GT]

What is the date code on your new tires?

 

I went with the D3's instead, when i was previously looking at the D3's i was looking at the wrong size, so thought it wasn't available.

[coppertone]

So from all of this we have arrived at Dunlops being the best winter tire for our application?

[09_Red_GT]

^ Depends, if you can get the Alpin A4 or the Conti's then those are probably better, but from my deduction of this, I went with the Dunlop D3's.

[outahere]

ConsumerSearch has a good overview of the "best" winter tires, based on testing by various organizations:

 

http://www.consumersearch.com/snow-tires

[krzyss]

OK, I found Polish test (thanks mother-in-law for perfect birthday gift - she send me a magazine with winter tire test!). I tried to find it on the Internet but it seems that it is not published on-line.

Tires size 195/65R15 tested (order of final results):

Continental TS830

Fulda Kristall Montero 3

Sava Eskimo S3

Kleber Kirisalp HP2

Barum Polaris 2

Hankook Icebear W440

Debica Frigo 2

Kormoran Snowpro b2

 

I think they choose single premium tire (TS830 price 241plz) and compared it to many cheaper tires (Hankook 236 plz, Fulda 208 plz, Kormoran 170 plz). 1 USD = 3 plz.

 

Continental was named the best with balanced performance, the best in the wet and good in snow and dry. Best for money was claimed Sava (185 plz).

 

Some results:

 

wet braking

100km/h (62mph) -> 0

Conti 58.0m

Sava 59.4m

Hankook 64.6m

Debica 74.3m -> 16.3m in front of winner = 53.5 ft

 

dry braking

100km/h (62mph) -> 0

Conti 44.4m

Sava 44.5m

Hankook 45.1

Kormoran 48.9

 

snow braking

50km/h (31mph) -> 0

Debica 25.4m

Conti 25.6m

Hankook 26.9m

 

Krzys

[TSiWRX]

^ Most interesting, krzyss, thank you (and your mother-in-law, too! )!

 

 

----

 

 

ConsumerSearch has a good overview of the "best" winter tires, based on testing by various organizations:

 

http://www.consumersearch.com/snow-tires

 

^ Arrrgh! I can't believe I forgot to cross-post ConsumerSearch as a source! I first saw their write-ups in 2008, while shopping for Sara's winter tire setup, and was impressed at how complete their write-ups were - including the fact that they also seemed more than willing to bring up counterpoints, to help consumers ask the right questions.

 

But I find their recommendations this year to be somewhat interesting. They're still on the Xi2s, and the PA3s overtake the 3D. I also take exception to what they quote of the Canadian APA, in the "studded" section:

 

"In addition to offering plenty of grip on both snow and ice, they [studless ice & snow] perform much better on asphalt and are significantly quieter."

 

It seems that while ConsumerSearch's staff explored the "roughed-up" versus "slick" ice (surface), it seems that they've not done so regarding the temperature-dependent effects. I wonder which is actually "more important?"

[outahere]

CS also stated: "............ studs wear down and lose their grip faster than studless tires."

 

But this seemingly contradicts the research findings from the VTI:

 

"• No influence of age on the ice grip on wet smooth ice could be found for the fully studded (100–110 studs) winter tyres with stud protrusion 0.9 mm and higher. Stud protrusion and stud force determine the ice grip in this category. The ice grip was also superior compared to non studded winter tyres and studded tyres with less stud protrusion.

 

• The studded tyres with stud protrusion less than 0.9 mm had as a group the next best ice grip in the age range 0–5 years. Then they were equivalent to the older non studded winter tyres.

 

• The ice grip on wet smooth ice for non studded winter and studded winter tyres with stud protrusion less than 0.9 mm deteriorated with increasing age and tread rubber hardness primarily during the first 5–8 years. The variation in ice grip was large especially for the non studded winter tyres, both the new and the older ones."

[TSiWRX]

^ And the VTI stud-length data seems to be supported by those worn-tire observations put forward by both the NAF as well as the Russians, this year.

 

Hopefully, ConsumerSearch will come to realize their mistakes.

[ssbtech]

Been running the WRG2 for a couple of years now. Tread down to 7/32" (I think they start at 11/32" or something.

 

Expecting a colder winter here than normal. What usually happens is the snow falls for a couple of days then turns to ice/ice with snow on top. Lots of hills here and the road crews aren't always on top of things.

 

The G2's are good in the deeper snow, handle sluch well but ice traction is the G2's achilles heel. Combined with an already tail-happy, understeering Subaru, I'd like better ice traction.

 

A lot of the Nokian reviews seem to be in foreign languages, so I was wondering what the general consensus is on the Hakkapeliitta R especially when it comes to ice.

 

I don't want anything studded as a lot of our winter is just rain/dry as well.

[outahere]

..........so I was wondering what the general consensus is on the Hakkapeliitta R especially when it comes to ice...............

 

My impression is that the HakkaR is consistently in the "top third" for ice traction when a group of non-studdable winter tires is tested.

 

Look at the extensive NAF tests and data tables for a good idea of its strengths and weaknesses. Google translate does a decent job with Norwegian.

 

"Nokian is just as good on ice Conti, but slightly worse on snow. Test drivers praise the deck for a stable and secure driving feel both on snow and ice. It's good for slush and wet asphalt, and has the lowest rolling resistance test. It does little for the car's fuel consumption and CO2 emissions. Low noise."

 

http://www.naf.no/Forbrukertester/Dekk/Dekktester/Vinterdekktest-2010/Piggfrie-dekk/

[TSiWRX]

My impression is that the HakkaR is consistently in the "top third" for ice traction when a group of non-studdable winter tires is tested.

 

^ That's my rough impression as well, and I think that's a very good sign that a tire is a "good" one.

 

The way I see it, there's always one or two tests where the data may stand out - either better or worse - but if there's a consistent trend, then it's a good sign that's what can be expected of the tire in the real-world.

 

 

----

 

 

I don't want anything studded as a lot of our winter is just rain/dry as well.

 

^ That's not a valid argument.

 

Remember that a function of how well either studded tires or their "Studless Ice & Snow" cousins perform is temperature based. With this in-mind, search up some past posts here dealing with studded tires versus studless, and you'll see that the long-held old thinking that studded tires are somehow "dangerous when clear wet/dry" is clearly no longer true, particularly at the temperatures that we're likely to see in the lower-48. Instead, base your studded/Studless choice on the temperatures/conditions that you're likely to see.

 

However, if you want to say that you don't want studded tires because you don't want to deal with the noise or potential legal/usage restrictions, those *are* both valid arguments.

[outahere]

Any ice yet in Ohio?

Winter has arrived in north Idaho with a bang! 8" of snow over the last 2 days. A blizzard last night.

Will be around -10F on Wednesday morning, and maybe 5F during the day. Lots of slide offs being reported on the news, for the usual reasons: inadequate tires and/or poor driver judgement. Looking forward to Sunday, when it will be a balmy 30F.

 

My Blizzak LM25s still doing well on snow, but unimpressive as always on ice. It was easy to give my ABS pump a good workout (after doing a brake fluid flush).

[ssbtech]

My Blizzak LM25s still doing well on snow, but unimpressive as always on ice. It was easy to give my ABS pump a good workout (after doing a brake fluid flush).

 

My ABS pump seems to develop a bad case of tourettes even with my WRG2, stopping from <10km/hr.

 

I can't believe how anyone could get by on regular all-seasons.

[TSiWRX]

Any ice yet in Ohio?

 

Luckily, no.

 

And yep, man, that hill in Seattle!!!!

 

Winter has arrived in north Idaho with a bang! 8" of snow over the last 2 days. A blizzard last night.

Will be around -10F on Wednesday morning, and maybe 5F during the day. Lots of slide offs being reported on the news, for the usual reasons: inadequate tires and/or poor driver judgement. Looking forward to Sunday, when it will be a balmy 30F.

 

It's weird how our perceptions change, isn't it?

 

In the summer, we're wearing Ts and shorts, and complaining that the house feels hot, at 64 deg. F. Yet in the winter, the house is set to 64 at night (yes, we elect not to heat ourselves, as we're truly a family of polar bears: our lack of heating costs in the winter is offset by our A/C costs in the summer), and we're under two down comforters.

 

My Blizzak LM25s still doing well on snow, but unimpressive as always on ice. It was easy to give my ABS pump a good workout (after doing a brake fluid flush).

 

I'm finally going to start break-in of the Pirellis, today. The temps are finally cold enough - and should stay decently cold enough.

 

Depending on how things go after next week, I may pull them again, though.

[09_Red_GT]

^ so what is the deal with breaking in winter tires?

[TSiWRX]

Same as summer tires, or any tires, you'll want the mold release to be scrubbed-off from the tread elements. Take it easy for the first couple of hundred miles, and remember to see if your inflation pressures need adjusting, after the tires "come in."

 

The 3Ds aren't exactly geared for icy roadways, but you'll actually be able to notice that their ice/hardpack-snow performance to be better, after they've "broken-in."

[outahere]

............Yet in the winter, the house is set to 64 at night (yes, we elect not to heat ourselves, as we're truly a family of polar bears: our lack of heating costs in the winter is offset by our A/C costs in the summer), and we're under two down comforters. ..............................

I'm finally going to start break-in of the Pirellis, today. The temps are finally cold enough - and should stay decently cold enough..........

 

64F overnight is sweltering! I have my thermostat set at 58F overnight.:lol:

 

I'm interested in your impressions of the NVH aspects on the studded Pirellis.

[outahere]

On the news this morning I some footage of the slipping and sliding in Seattle, on the hills. The irony is that WA DOT is opposed to the use of studded tires, even though they are legal.

[TSiWRX]

^ Irony indeed. Those conditions - temperature included - seem tailor made for studded tires.

 

64F overnight is sweltering! I have my thermostat set at 58F overnight.:lol:

 

:lol: You should just sleep in the garage. An unheated garage!

 

I think we're barely polar, compared to you guys, then!

 

When Anna was a baby, we kept the house at 60. She wouldn't sleep, otherwise.

 

Now, she seems to have become slightly more normal. Still, if the temperature (as determined by our one and only thermostat downstairs in the dining room) is above 64, she'll toss and turn and complain.

 

I'm interested in your impressions of the NVH aspects on the studded Pirellis.

 

Still too early to tell, as I'm doing the break-in thing, so I'm keeping speeds low.

 

Cruising between 30-35 MPH, I barely notice anything from the driver's seat, with the windows up and the moon-roof closed. The one caveat, though, is that I do have an aftermarket CBE (BL-specific Invidia Q300) in addition to the usual "Stage II" pre and post-turbo piping.

 

There's definitely a crunching/pebbles/hail-like sound, though, when accelerating/decelerating between 5 to 20 MPH that's noticeable to both me and Anna.

 

With the radio at a reasonable level (*NOT* the level at which Anna and I enjoyed The Beastie Boys' Sabotage, this AM ), it's really barely noticeable.

 

Those are my typical in-city speeds. My speed-limits are low. 35 MPH is as fast as it gets around here, on my usual routes.

 

I'll report back with more, later.

[Garandman]

My ABS pump seems to develop a bad case of tourettes even with my WRG2, stopping from <10km/hr.

 

I can't believe how anyone could get by on regular all-seasons.

What car?

 

I took our 06 OBW 3,0R to the Team O'Neal Winter Safety School. It had Nokian RSI's and the ABS was much more active than several other cars I rode in. The 06 has VTD but not VDC. My 09 WRX is less dramatic.

 

 

//

A lot of the Nokian reviews seem to be in foreign languages, so I was wondering what the general consensus is on the Hakkapeliitta R especially when it comes to ice.

 

I don't want anything studded as a lot of our winter is just rain/dry as well.

I have Nokian WR's and RSI's for the Outback, WRG2's for my WRX, Nokian R's on a work Ford Transit Connect, 1st gen X-Ice on another van, and just bought Michelin X-Ice Xi2's for my wife's Mazda MPV, which previously had WR's.

 

Suggesting what the right tire is for you is pretty difficult, since your profile doesn't say where you live or which Subaru you have. We have five company cars and two POV's so I have a chance to drive cars back-to-back in the same conditions. This winter will be even more interesting as their are now 3 WRX/STI at work with different snows.

 

Comparing the R's to the RSI's that preceded them their snow and ice traction seems a bit better, while they are much quieter and seem to have lower rolling resistance and dry handling.

 

We put RSI's/R's on the vehicles that spend the winter Manchester NH and North, and WR's/WRG2's on those that spend it mostly south, although there is big overlap. Simply put, if the area gets less than 100" of snow a season, we use WRG2's.

[09_Red_GT]

Same as summer tires, or any tires, you'll want the mold release to be scrubbed-off from the tread elements. Take it easy for the first couple of hundred miles, and remember to see if your inflation pressures need adjusting, after the tires "come in."

 

The 3Ds aren't exactly geared for icy roadways, but you'll actually be able to notice that their ice/hardpack-snow performance to be better, after they've "broken-in."

 

Thank you for the input/advice.

 

Another quick question. Will a 225/45/R17's fit on a 215/45/R17 wheel. basically going up 10 mm.

[krzyss]

OE 09 LGT tire is 7" wide.

As far as I remember it is minimum width for any 225/45R17 tire.

 

Krzys

 

PS I have 05 OE wheels and BBS RK 17x7 (aka Saabaru wheels). 225/45R17 on both sets.

[09_Red_GT]

^

Thanks for the info, I believe the original factory tire is 215/45/r17... so I just wanted to make sure it fit.

[krzyss]

Some claim that 225/45R17 should have been OE size instead of 215/45.

 

225/45R17 fits OE wheel and car just fine.

 

Krzys