2010 Winter Tire Tests

[outahere]

^ Most interesting....

 

Does tire size also factor into this equation?

 

I'm not sure. CR claims it does not. One reason for the differences in ranking is that AutoZ appears to give equal weighting to dry, wet, and snow scores, whereas ADAC has a totally different weighting scheme. I checked the AutoZ site for more test details, but could not find anything.

[TSiWRX]

I'm not sure. CR claims it does not.

 

^ Definitely interesting - I thought it was decently well agreed/documented that footprint can have significant effect on at least dry braking? I can't help but think that there's a whole bunch of pluses and minuses pulling and pushing each other, in terms of sizing, for the various winter-testing tasks.

 

The other question I have would be regarding speed-rating/compounding

 

One reason for the differences in ranking is that AutoZ appears to give equal weighting to dry, wet, and snow scores, whereas ADAC has a totally different weighting scheme. I checked the AutoZ site for more test details, but could not find anything.

About the ADAC weighing - why does their test add up to 105% this year?

 

I didn't have time to look at the AutoZeitung data before dinner, but I'm trying, now. I'm having a devil of a time finding the 2010 test referenced by TyreReviews, though. A little help, please?

 

On the plus side, there's a lot of cool new reading.

[outahere]

^ Definitely interesting - I thought it was decently well agreed/documented that footprint can have significant effect on at least dry braking?..................................

 

About the ADAC weighing - why does their test add up to 105% this year?

 

......................I'm having a devil of a time finding the 2010 test referenced by TyreReviews, though. A little help, please?

 

 

I should have been more clear, in that CR says, as I recall from their forums, that tire size does not change the ranking in their winter tests.

 

I don't think AZ has this test online yet. TyreReview must have gotten a preview?

 

There are some typos in the ADAC summary chart. For instance, the tire wear score for the Alpin should be 1.0, and not 0.5

 

The Conti TS830 seems to be quite the all around winter performer, doesn't it? At least according to both ADAC and AZ, but Consumer Reports disagrees. I wonder if we will see it here? It's available in Canada.

[TSiWRX]

I should have been more clear, in that CR says, as I recall from their forums, that tire size does not change the ranking in their winter tests.

 

Ah, gotcha.

 

I wonder how that goes, though? Wouldn't it make sense that since dry performance was a part of their equation, that it would matter - and furthermore, if sizing includes variations in tread design alone, shouldn't that matter in terms of snow acceleration and braking?...counterbalanced by the tire's altered footprint?

 

Dunno. Wish I'd taken more physics and engineering classes.

 

I don't think AZ has this test online yet. TyreReview must have gotten a preview?

 

Again, thanks - just so I wasn't going nuts!

 

There are some typos in the ADAC summary chart. For instance, the tire wear score for the Alpin should be 1.0, and not 0.5

 

Glad to see that precise Germans aren't complete devoid of the human potential for small errors.

 

The Conti TS830 seems to be quite the all around winter performer, doesn't it? At least according to both ADAC and AZ, but Consumer Reports disagrees. I wonder if we will see it here? It's available in Canada.

 

I'm wondering why the CR results seem to be flying in the face of everything else, this year.

 

What's the difference between the 810-series and the 830?

 

Indeed, perhaps as everyone seems to be consolidating, we'll see the 830s take over our market, too?

 

But in wrapping back to your first comment of this particular paragraph, yes, I do agree - not only in terms of the 830, but also in terms of, seemingly, Conti's entire lineup nowadays.

[outahere]

After a little more research, I see that there is the Conti TS830 (tested this year at AutoZeitung, and last year at ADAC) and the new TS830P (tested this year at ADAC and CR). Two totally different tread designs. The TS830P is designed for improved braking. And of course the TS810 is yet another tread design. See: http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/ca/en/continental/automobile/themes/pcar/winter/contiwintercontact_ts_830_p/contiwintercontact_ts_830_p_en.html

 

There are plenty of technical details and videos about the 830P at the above link, but for some reason the sound was not coming through for me (on Safari).

[outahere]

Looking at the Dunlop 3D vs Conti TS830(P) pairing in the 2009 and 2010 ADAC tests, it appears that the TS830P has improved a lot in the area of ice traction. In 2009 as the TS830 it trailed the 3D by 0.4 points, but in 2010 as the TS830P it beats the 3D by 0.4 points.

 

Regarding snow traction, in 2009 as the TS830 it beat the 3D by 0.4 points, but in 2010 as the TS830P it beats the 3D by 0.7 points.

[outahere]

Here are some interesting comments from the new VP of sales and marketing for Continental Tire the Americas:

 

".............We are working on raising brand and product awareness, making more of a connection to the end-consumer so that we can take advantage of their buying behavior and preferences. This market, I think, is more of an emotional purchase market than Europe. In Europe, consumers rely heavily on press tests. If you win the magazine tests you sell a lot of tires. And if you don’t, you don’t. So for a company like ours that is driven heavily by R&D and development, that situation really works. In this market, it is a little different. You only have a couple of opportunities like that, maybe with Tire Rack or Consumer Reports or some smaller things. So you need more in the toolbox in order to connect with the consumer, What we’re trying to do is tap into that. We’re trying to make more of an emotional connection with consumers than what we have ever invested in the past. Before we even talk about ‘purchase behavior,’ we have a big challenge just in terms of brand awareness............"

 

http://www.tirereview.com/Article/74726/new_vp_sees_numerous_opportunities_for_conti_to_score.aspx

[TSiWRX]

Very interesting stuff..... Looks like the P-variant has come a long way.

 

My connection is being funny - I'm pulling up the tech pages, but the vids are not playing.

 

Interesting how the Conti VP says that the NA market is more subjective, and that it's important to win press-organized tests in Europe.

 

If he's insulting us as being stupid and not thoughtful of our purchases, I think I'll return the favor by saying that I find the latter amusing, given their past history.

[outahere]

.......My connection is being funny - I'm pulling up the tech pages, but the vids are not playing........

 

I can see the videos, but there is no sound, with Safari on a Mac. With Firefox, there is no video and no sound.

[TSiWRX]

^ I'm on the latest revision of Firefox, and there's no sound - the videos play.

 

The opening page graphics play with sound, though, so I'm almost wondering if there's just no sound recorded (yet?)..... Real bummer, though, as like you said, it looks like there's a lot there to digest!

[outahere]

Another test, from Auto Bild:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-Auto-Bild-Performance-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm

 

The aging Dunlop 3D received a 1st place ranking. Dunlop is getting a lot of good out of this tire!

[TSiWRX]

From only what tyrereview.com has written, it looks like this one's weighed, and weighed differently than some of the others.

[TSiWRX]

Holy crap! Going down to 41 degrees on Saturday night - rain is predicted.

 

I better get my winters on, or I'm gonna die, for sure.

 

[stevehecht]

^OHMIGOD! And you haven't even had time to break them in! YOU"RE GONNA DIE FOR SURE!

[TSiWRX]

^ :lol:

[RuskiTrombone]

Unless 'maneuver' has a meaning I'm unaware of - it's not right. "perestavki" basically means something like moose/deer evasion via quick intense braking and a subsequent lane change. The test itself seeks to determine the highest safe speed to do this on a given tire.

 

Pere is a suffix for "re-" as in "re-build", "re-move", "re-construct".

 

Stavit is a verb that means "to put" or "to move" as in to put something in place or to move something. When you put the two together, you get a Russian word that I would most closely say means to perform maneuvers.

[krzyss]

So I bought November CR.

Interesting notes:

 

Out of 15 winter tires tested 11 are V or W rated, 2 R, 1 H and 1 T.

 

3 recommended tires:

 

Nokian WR G2

Hankook Winter I*cept Evo

Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3

 

Not so typical order (compared to German ADAC) may have something to do with being V rated (ADAC tested H rated tires).

 

First five summer tires:

 

Goodyear Eagle F1

Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT

Michelin Pilot Sport PS2

Contnental Extreme Contact DW

Hankook Ventus V12 evo

 

Hankook is the bargain tire (even bigger with $60.00 mail in rebate) from 5 recommended/winner tires.

 

All season high performance:

 

Pirelli P Zero Nero All Season

Sumitomo HTR A/S P01

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus

Continental Extreme Contact DWS

 

Michelin is twice as expensive as Sumitomo but it may last twice as long (excellent tread wear compared to good - I wish they provided raw numbers so one can decide on one's own).

 

Krzys

[outahere]

In the CR footnotes, do they mention their snow testing protocol? Is it limited to an acceleration test on snow?

[krzyss]

"Snow traction reflects the distance our test car needed to accelerate from 5 to 20 mph on moderately packed snow."

 

Krzys

[TSiWRX]

RE: CR data (winter only) -

 

As I said on NASIOC, although I see the value of a cross sub-genre test (and as we've discussed this, and lamented such testing as what Car & Driver put forward last winter), I continue to be puzzled as to how CR could make a sweeping recommendation/"rank in order," given the distinct and noted strengths and weaknesses of these tires.

 

Certainly, that they only cater to a limited market (that of the US) does help - but even so, winters in Rochester or Ashtabula or Madison can be quite different from winters in Baltimore or Columbus or Seattle....

 

Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't get it. :redface:

[outahere]

"Snow traction reflects the distance our test car needed to accelerate from 5 to 20 mph on moderately packed snow."

 

Krzys

 

Apparently, CR doesn't think stopping or turning in the snow is important.

[outahere]

RE: CR data (winter only) -

 

As I said on NASIOC, although I see the value of a cross sub-genre test (and as we've discussed this, and lamented such testing as what Car & Driver put forward last winter), I continue to be puzzled as to how CR could make a sweeping recommendation/"rank in order," given the distinct and noted strengths and weaknesses of these tires.

 

Certainly, that they only cater to a limited market (that of the US) does help - but even so, winters in Rochester or Ashtabula or Madison can be quite different from winters in Baltimore or Columbus or Seattle....

 

Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't get it. :redface:

 

They need a disclaimer at the top of their summary chart:

"For best results, ignore overall rankings, look only at individual performance rankings"

[krzyss]

^

good suggestion.

[TSiWRX]

^ +1. And to also go to perhaps a ten-point or otherwise decimal scale.

 

---

 

Apparently, CR doesn't think stopping or turning in the snow is important.http://legacygt.com/forums/../images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Hey, we all know forward-motion is where it's at!

[krzyss]

Unless one needs to break or change direction.

 

Krzys