TSiWRX Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 29, 2010 Author Share Posted October 29, 2010 This google translation at the bottom of the Russian page was amusing: "Spetstest. Directional tires backwards: gay" Don't run your directional tires backwards, unless you want to send a message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 29, 2010 Author Share Posted October 29, 2010 ^ Now that's a glass-half-full kind of thinking! I was more thinking about slipping on the studded set, to break them in. I'll be damned if temps. aren't expected to be in the 50s, though! You can always ship the tires to me, and I will give them a test. We're expecting above average snowfall and below average temperatures. What tires are on your LGT right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 29, 2010 Author Share Posted October 29, 2010 ..........these newer reports are available from the Swedish National Road and Traffic Institute (VTI): 2004-09-10 Friction on ice for new and used winter tyres 2004-06-28 The friction on wet smooth ice for new and used winter tyres. An investigation concerning the influence of age, tread depth, tread rubber hardness, stud protrusion and stud force. 2003-11-11 The correlation between grip on rough ice of winter tyres and their age, tread depth and tread rubber hardness 2003-09-09 The friction on smooth ice for new and used winter tyres...................... English summary of report 2003-09-09: http://www.vti.se/templates/Report____2797.aspx?reportid=2423 "Studded tyres are superior on icy roads. No significant influence of age on the ice friction of winter tyres. The results show that on ice near zero degrees C, studded tyres as a group still are superior to non studded tyres including the specialised studless winter tyres often called ”friction tyres”. The differences in friction within the groups are however quite large. The new winter tyres were clearly better than the average of the older tyres. In the age range 5 to 15 years however no significant influence of age on the ice friction of winter tyres could be found regardless of if they were studded or not. The aim of the investigation which is sponsored by the ”(Personal Registration) Plate Fund” of the Swedish National Road Administration and of the Norwegian Public Road Administration is to investigate the correlation between ice grip of winter tyres and their age, tread depth and tread rubber hardness and for studded tyres also stud protrusion and stud force. The investigation comprises 20 studded and 33 non studded winter tyres and 4 summer tyres mainly of the in Sweden popular brands Gislaved, Michelin and Good Year of size 185/65 -R15. Most of the tyres had been driven in ordinary traffic and varied in age from three (1998) to fifteen (1986) years. Tyres from 1994 only used in two earlier investigations also sponsored by the ”Plate Fund”, one on ice and one on wet asphalt, and a small number of new winter tyres were also tested. As reference some new summer tyres were tested as well. The tests in this part investigation were carried out on smooth black ice near zero degrees centigrade (-3°C). This type of surface is one of the most dangerous with respect to traffic safety and has justified the development of studded tyres. Investigations on rough ice and wet ice will follow in the next few years. The test results from this investigation do not answer the question whether or how the performance of a stored unused tyre is reduced with time. Results from an earlier investigation by VTI presented in this report indicates that a winter tyre can be stored at least up to 3 years without reduction of its ice friction performance. Design changes can result in positive or negative change in ice friction depending on which properties the manufacturer has focused on. Of the four tested summer tyres one tyre in each of the two speed categories T and V were manufactured one year earlier than the other. The older V-tyre had better results but the older T-tyre worse. The best of these summer tyres were however from the same manufacturer and also had the hardest tread rubber why the differences probably is caused by construction rather than age. In the investigated tread depth range from 4 to 10 mm a significant improvement of the ice grip could only be found in the range from 6 to 10 mm and with the strongest tendency for the studded tyres with a stud protrusion of 0,9 mm and over. Increasing rubber hardness gave a decrease in friction in the range from 45 to 60 Shore. In the interval from 60 to 75 Shore no correlation could be found between ice friction and tread rubber hardness. The new tyres had the lowest shore numbers i.e. were the softest. In the range from 5 to 15 years no correlation between age and tread rubber hardness could be found. Stud protrusion and stud force had the strongest effect on the ice friction. Some very old tyres with large stud protrusion and stud force had among the best ice friction results comparable to those of the new studded tyres. Studded tyres with stud protrusion less than 0,9 mm and stud force below 90 N had clearly lower friction values comparable to the mean of the non studded used winter tyres in the investigation. The variation in results for the non studded tyres was also large and could not be explained by the studied variables age, tread depth and tread rubber hardness. The explanation lies probably in tread pattern and other rubber characteristics than hardness. The non studded tyres in general have a substantially larger drop in friction than the studded tyres from maximum friction condition to 20 degrees side slip angle or locked wheel friction condition. This was especially true for the summer tyres in the speed class V which are common on new cars. This means that a vehicle with non studded tyres has lower performance limit and is more difficult to handle under limit conditions on ice at temperatures near the melting point. An unexpected strong reduction of braking or cornering performance during maximum braking or cornering is seen as a serious accident risk factor especially as the yaw stability of the vehicle is seriously reduced if the friction of the rear wheels is drastically reduced during a rear wheel skid. As a measure of stability in braking performance a braking stability factor has been defined as the ratio between the locked wheel friction and the maximum braking friction As a measure of yaw stability a steering stability factor has been defined as the ratio between the 20 degree side slip angle lateral friction and the maximum lateral friction. Studded tyres with large stud protrusion and stud force have compared to non studded tyres not only better braking and cornering performance but also better braking and steering stability factors. The steering and braking performance of the tyres has been measured in a special climate controlled indoor high speed flat bed test facility developed by the VTI. Very good correlation has earlier been found between results from the facility and lap time results from ice track circuit tests with cars as well as pure braking and cornering tests with cars on ice tracks. The results from the tests are intended for use by ordinary consumers as a guidance in estimating the performance of used tyres for example when buying used tyres or deciding whether their own used winter tyres are good for another season. The results can also be used as support for decisions concerning possible changes in present tyre regulations. Furthermore the results can be used by researchers in the subject area." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 29, 2010 Author Share Posted October 29, 2010 ..........these newer reports are available from the Swedish National Road and Traffic Institute (VTI): 2004-09-10 Friction on ice for new and used winter tyres 2004-06-28 The friction on wet smooth ice for new and used winter tyres. An investigation concerning the influence of age, tread depth, tread rubber hardness, stud protrusion and stud force. 2003-11-11 The correlation between grip on rough ice of winter tyres and their age, tread depth and tread rubber hardness 2003-09-09 The friction on smooth ice for new and used winter tyres...................... English summary of report 2003-11-11: http://www.vti.se/templates/Report____2797.aspx?reportid=5955 "The aim of the investigation which is sponsored by the Vehicle Deparment of the Swedish National Road Administration and Norwegian Public Roads Administra¬tion is to investigate the correlation between grip on rough ice of winter tyres and their age, tread depth and tread rubber hardness and for studded tyres also stud protrusion and stud force. The investigation comprises 22 studded and 42 non studded winter tyres and 4 new summer tyres mainly of the in Sweden popular brands Gislaved, Good Year, Michelin of size 195/65 -R15. Most of the tyres had been driven in ordinary traffic and varied in age from zero (2002) to 21 (1981) years. Tyres from 1994, 1988 and 1982 only used in earlier investigations on ice and on wet asphalt also sponsored by the Swedish National Road Administration were also tested. In addition a small number of new winter tyres and as reference some new summer tyres were tested as well. The tests were carried out in the autumn 2002 on rough ice near zero degrees centigrade (-3°C) as complementary tests to those on smooth ice carried out in the autumn 2001 which are published in VTI Meddelande 923. The results on rough ice resemble those obtained on smooth ice except that the friction level is higher. The average of the new winter tyres were clearly better than the average of the older tyres. In the age range from about 8 to 21 years, however, no significant influence of age on the ice friction of winter tyres could be found regardless of if they were studded or not. The test results from this investigation do not answer the question whether or how the peformance of a stored unused tyre is reduced with time. Results from an earlier investigation on smooth ice by VTI presented in VTI Meddelande 923 indicate that a winter tyre can be stored at least up to 3 years without reduction of its ice friction performance and there is reason to believe that this is valid also for rough ice. In the investigated tread depth range from 3.7 to 10 mm a significant improve¬ment of the ice grip could only be found for the studded tyres with a stud protrusion of 0,9 mm and over and only in the range from 6 to 10 mm. Increasing rubber hardness gave a clear decrease in friction in the investigated range which was from 42 to 70 Shore. The new tyres had the lowest Shore numbers i.e. were the softest. In the range from 8 to 21 years no correlation between age and tread rubber hardness could be found. The results show somewhat unexpected that studded tyres as a group still are superior to non studded tyres including the specialised studless winter tyres often called ”friction tyres”. The differences in friction within the groups are however quite large. Stud protrusion and stud force had the strongest effect on the ice friction. Some very old tyres with large stud protrusion and stud force had among the best ice friction results comparable to those of the new studded tyres. Studded tyres with stud protrusion less than 0,9 mm and stud force below 90 N had clearly lower friction values comparable to the mean of the non studded used winter tyres in the investigation. The variation in results for the non studded tyres was also large and could not be explained by the studied variable age, tread depth and tread rubber hardness. The explanation lies probably in tread pattern and other rubber characteristics than hardness. Design changes can result in positive or negative change in ice friction depending on which properties the manufacturer has focused on. Of the four tested summer tyres one tyre in each of the two speed categories T and V were manufactured one year earlier than the other. The older V-tyre had better results but the older T-tyre worse. The best tyres were however from the same manufacturer and also had the hardest tread rubber why the differences probably is caused by construction rather than age. The non studded tyres in general have a substantially larger drop in friction than the studded tyres from maximum friction condition to 20 degrees side slip angle or locked wheel friction condition. This was especially true for the summer tyres in the speed class V which are common on new cars. This means that a vehicle with non studded tyres has lower performance limit and is more difficult to handle under limit conditions on ice at temperatures near the melting point. An unexpected strong reduction of braking or cornering performance during maximum braking or cornering is seen as a serious accident risk factor especially as the yaw stability of the vehicle is seriously reduced if the friction of the rear wheels is drastically reduced during a rear wheel skid. As a measure of stability in braking performance a braking stability factor has been defined as the ratio between the locked wheel friction and the maximum braking friction. As a measure of yaw stability a steering stability factor has been defined as the ratio between the 20 degree side slip angle lateral friction and the maximum lateral friction. Studded tyres with large stud protrusion and stud force have, compared to non studded tyres, not only better braking and cornering performance but also better braking and steering stability factors. The steering and braking performance of the tyres has been measured in a special climate controlled indoor high speed flat bed test facility developed by the VTI. Very good correlation has earlier been found between results from the facility and laptime results from ice trackcircuit tests with cars as well as pure braking and cornering tests with cars on ice tracks. The results from the tests are intended for use by ordinary consumers as a guidance in estimating the performance of used tyres for example when buying used tyres or deciding whether their own used winter tyres are good for another season. The results can also be used as support for decisions concerning possible changes in present tyre regulations. Furthermore the results can be used by researchers in the subject area. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 English summary of report # 2004-06-28 The friction on wet smooth ice for new and used winter tyres. An investigation concerning the influence of age, tread depth, tread rubber hardness, stud protrusion and stud force. http://www.vti.se/templates/Report____2797.aspx?reportid=2460 "No significant influence of age on the ice grip on wet smooth ice of fully studded winter tyres with stud protrusion over 1 mm. The ice grip for non studded winter tyres deteriorates with age and increasing rubber hardness. Fully studded tyres with stud protrusion over 1 mm are superior to non studded winter tyres on wet smooth ice. The aim of the investigation, which is sponsored by the Swedish National Road Administration and of the Norwegian Public Road Administration, is to investigate the correlation between ice grip on wet smooth ice of winter tyres and their age, tread depth and tread rubber hardness and for studded tyres also stud protrusion and stud force. The investigation is part of a series of tests comprising the study of ice grip on three different ice surface conditions: Wet smooth ice, smooth ice at -3ºC and rough ice also at -3ºC. The tests on the two last mentioned surfaces were carried out in 2001 and 2002 and have been reported in VTI meddelande 923 (2003) and VTI notat 34-2003. The tests in this part investigation were carried out on wet smooth black ice. This type of surface is one of the most dangerous with respect to traffic safety that has justified the development of studded tyres. The investigation comprises 23 studded and 42 non studded winter tyres and four summer tyres mainly of the in Sweden popular brands Gislaved, Michelin and Good Year primarily of size 195/65-R15. The tyres were manufactured from 1981 to 2003 and the majority had been run in ordinary traffic. Some of the older tyres had only been used at earlier tests on ice and had been stored at VTI. A smaller number of new tyres produced 2001–2003 were also tested including four summer tyres used as reference to the winter tyres. The results of the investigation, which show similar trends as in the two earlier studies can be summarised as follows: • No influence of age on the ice grip on wet smooth ice could be found for the fully studded (100–110 studs) winter tyres with stud protrusion 0.9 mm and higher. Stud protrusion and stud force determine the ice grip in this category. The ice grip was also superior compared to non studded winter tyres and studded tyres with less stud protrusion. • The studded tyres with stud protrusion less than 0.9 mm had as a group the next best ice grip in the age range 0–5 years. Then they were equivalent to the older non studded winter tyres. • The ice grip on wet smooth ice for non studded winter and studded winter tyres with stud protrusion less than 0.9 mm deteriorated with increasing age and tread rubber hardness primarily during the first 5–8 years. The variation in ice grip was large especially for the non studded winter tyres, both the new and the older ones. • Increasing tread depth in the investigated range from 6 to 10 mm gave a positive effect on the ice grip for the studded tyres probably due to a co-variation between tread depth stud protrusion and stud force. The correlation was weak however. For the non studded winter tyres no correlation could be found between tread depth and ice grip on wet smooth ice in the investigated range from about 3.5 to 10 mm. • Increasing tread rubber hardness diminished the ice grip for non studded winter tyres and studded tyres with stud protrusion below 0.9 mm. For studded tyres with stud protrusion 0.9 mm and more no clear correlation between hardness and ice grip could be found. As the hardness of the tested tyres increased with increasing age especially during the first years of use it seems as expected to be the primary reason for deterioration of ice grip with age. • The ice grip increased with increasing stud protrusion and stud force. The stud force tended to increase with increasing stud protrusion. Worn tyres had normally lower stud force than new tyres with the same stud protrusion. • The tested summer tyres had as a group the lowest ice grip. • There was a large variation in results for the non studded tyres of the same age that could not be explained by the studied variables age, tread depth and tread rubber hardness. The explanation lies probably in tread pattern and other rubber characteristics than hardness. An unexpected strong reduction of braking or cornering performance during maximum braking or cornering is seen as a serious accident risk factor especially as the yaw stability of the vehicle is seriously reduced if the friction of the rear wheels is drastically reduced during a rear wheel skid. As a measure of stability in braking performance a braking stability factor has been defined as the ratio between the locked wheel friction and the maximum braking friction. As a measure of yaw stability a steering stability factor has been defined as the ratio between the 20 degree side slip angle lateral friction and the maximum lateral friction. The braking stability on wet smooth ice was acceptable for all tested tyres. The steering stability on wet smooth ice was fully satisfactory for all the tested studded tyres i. e. they had values over one. The non studded tyres had significantly less good steering stability somewhat deteriorating with age. The mean value was about 0.8. New tyres with soft tread rubber were best with values close to one. The steering and braking performances of the tyres were measured in a special climate controlled enclosed high speed flat bed test facility developed by the VTI. Very good correlation has earlier been found between results from the facility and lap time results from ice track circuit tests with cars as well as pure braking and cornering tests with cars on ice tracks. The results from the tests are intended for use by ordinary consumers as a guidance in estimating the performance of used tyres for example when buying used tyres or deciding whether their own used winter tyres are good for another season. The results can also be used as support for decisions concerning possible changes in present tyre regulations. Furthermore researchers in the subject area could use the results. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 English summary of report #2004-09-10 Friction on ice for new and used winter tyres http://www.vti.se/templates/Report____2797.aspx?reportid=2461 "The investigation does not support the introduction of a general age limit for winter tyres. The ice grip of non studded winter tyres deteriorates with age and tread rubber hardness for non studded tyres. No significant influence of age on the ice friction of winter tyres. Studded tyres are superior of non studded winter tyres on icy roads. It has been argued that the grip of winter tyres on ice and snow deteriorates with age to such an extent that winter tyres above a certain age e. g 10 years should be forbidden to use. Little research data do however exist. This investigation has been carried out by VTI sponsored by the Swedish National Road Administration and of the Norwegian Public Road Administration in order to get a better background for legal decisions. The results would also be of use for ordinary consumers as a guidance. It comprises three part studies on different surfaces, wet ice, smooth ice -3ºC and rough ice -3ºC. The aim of the investigation is to investigate the correlation between ice grip of winter tyres and their age, tread depth and tread rubber hardness and for studded tyres also stud protrusion and stud force. The investigation comprises 20–23 studded and 33–43 non studded winter tyres and four summer tyres mainly of the in Sweden popular brands Gislaved, Michelin and Good Year of size 185/65-15, 195/65/-15, 185/70-14, 165-15. All were radial tyres manufactured between 1981 and 2003. Most of the tyres had been driven in ordinary traffic. A small number of new winter tyres were also tested. As reference some new summer tyres were tested as well. The steering and braking performance of the tyres has been measured in a special climate controlled indoor high speed flat bed test facility developed by the VTI. Very good correlation has earlier been found between results from the facility and lap time results from ice track circuit tests with cars as well as pure braking and cornering tests with cars on ice tracks. The new winter tyres were clearly better than the average of the older tyres. In the age range 5 to 15 years however no significant influence of age on the ice friction of winter tyres could be found regardless of if they were studded or not. The results also show that on this surface studded tyres as a group still are superior to non studded tyres including the specialised studless winter tyres often called ”friction tyres”. The differences in friction are largest on wet ice and smallest on rough ice. The test results from this investigation do not answer the question whether or how the performance of a stored unused tyre is reduced with time. Results from an earlier investigation by VTI showed no deterioration within three years of storage. The results from the tests are intended for use by ordinary consumers as a guidance in estimating the performance of used tyres for example when buying used tyres or deciding whether their own used winter tyres are good for another season. The results can also be used as support for decisions concerning possible changes in present tyre regulations. Furthermore the results can be used by researchers in the subject area." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 This google translation at the bottom of the Russian page was amusing: "Spetstest. Directional tires backwards: gay" Don't run your directional tires backwards, unless you want to send a message. ^ Hey now, hey now - I make no judgments, with the exception of snickering at the person's tire know-(not)-how. Come to think of it: taken literally, that could be quite correct - there's perhaps more "fun" to be had, running directional tires backwards...in a deserted parking lot, at least! ---- You can always ship the tires to me, and I will give them a test. We're expecting above average snowfall and below average temperatures. I wonder how much cutting I'll have to do, with the angle-grinder, to get everything packed into one USPS Flat-Rate box. I'm soooooooo jealous if that forecast comes true (I've been checking the long-range projections since August ). We're going to fall right on the edge. We're either not gonna seen nothin', or we're gonna get buried. What tires are on your LGT right now? I switched over to the 3Ds two weeks ago - I was pursuing a weird noise from my driver's side rear (hey, keep the comments of my weight to yourself! ), and thought that it was a good opportunity. It was an early switch (my usual switch-time would've been this weekend), but it turned out favorably towards the end of this week, given low night-time temperatures and slick surfaces. A good set of HPAS would be great right now: temperatures are truly getting too cold for my summer tires, and it's not quite cold enough for the winter tires to truly be of best benefit, yet. We're supposedly looking at a possibility of snow showers on the 5th. I might change Sara's FXT over some time next week, if that looks to be more of a possibility. Typically, I don't switch her over until before the first true snow, in December. Are you on your winters yet? <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Is it just me, or are reports: 2003-09-09 2003-11-11 2004-06-28 - either very, very similar, or near-verbatim repeats of each other? --- Nevertheless, that's some wonderful reading. Thanks for copying it over here. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Crossing this one over from NASIOC: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2078358 Garandman's OP, in-particular, has some Finnish and Swedish data I don't remember seeing, so far. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 ......I switched over to the 3Ds two weeks ago - I was pursuing a weird noise from my driver's side rear (hey, keep the comments of my weight to yourself! ), and thought that it was a good opportunity. It was an early switch (my usual switch-time would've been this weekend), but it turned out favorably towards the end of this week, given low night-time temperatures and slick surfaces. A good set of HPAS would be great right now: temperatures are truly getting too cold for my summer tires, and it's not quite cold enough for the winter tires to truly be of best benefit, yet. We're supposedly looking at a possibility of snow showers on the 5th. I might change Sara's FXT over some time next week, if that looks to be more of a possibility. Typically, I don't switch her over until before the first true snow, in December. Are you on your winters yet? I will make the winter switch within the next ten days. Daytime temps this week are in the 40s, next week will be in the 50s. No snow or ice yet. Still have my Michelin summers on, but not overly worried about it, given how surprisingly well the summers performed at low temperatures in the Auto Express test. "At near freezing temperatures the Dunlop and Continental winter tyres out performed the summer tyre [Continental’s Premium Contact 2] during the wet braking test. At 7c [45F] this result was reversed, but in both tests the results were extremely close." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 Is it just me, or are reports: 2003-09-09 2003-11-11 2004-06-28 - either very, very similar, or near-verbatim repeats of each other? --- Nevertheless, that's some wonderful reading. Thanks for copying it over here. There is a little bit of redundancy, in that they reiterate the previous findings, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I will make the winter switch within the next ten days. Daytime temps this week are in the 40s, next week will be in the 50s. No snow or ice yet. Still have my Michelin summers on, but not overly worried about it, given how surprisingly well the summers performed at low temperatures in the Auto Express test. "At near freezing temperatures the Dunlop and Continental winter tyres out performed the summer tyre [Continental’s Premium Contact 2] during the wet braking test. At 7c [45F] this result was reversed, but in both tests the results were extremely close." ^ Yep, I usually don't switch until the week/end of Halloween - that' usually when our daytime temps will dip down into the 40s, and we start seeing the potential for overnight slick spots. I got lazy this year: the tires were already off, so I was like, what-the-heck. --- There is a little bit of redundancy, in that they reiterate the previous findings, I think. ^ Indeed, perhaps the translation/summary is causing it to read near-verbatim. Good point. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 1, 2010 Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 Here is another article in Russian: http://www.zr.ru/a/16906/ The graphs are quite self-explanatory.................... From that article, an interesting quote: "Of course, we are interested in the opinion of specialists from different companies, but received a rather cautious answers. Engineers Continental and Michelin, for example, argue that the temperature of the "equinox" studded and non-studded tires - 15 ° Celsius. If warmer, the ice spikes are more effective, cooler - Velcro. It is very important in the ice ... and the weather" This shows up in the line graph for the tested tires, and you can clearly see an "equivalence point" in the vicinity of -15C (5F) where the studded and non-studded (aka velcro) tires have roughly equal traction on ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 ^ I was reading at work, missed that. Oooooh, interesting...... [ On a side note, I wonder how it would feel to drive Velcro tires? ] <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Adding in brother ehsnils's sighting of the latest from his neck of the woods: They recently published a winter tire test in a Swedish newspaper: http://extra.expressen.se/pdf/101109-dacktest.pdf Translations: IS = Ice SNÖ = Snow VÅTT = Wet TORRT = Dry VATTENPLANING = Water Planing ÄLGTEST = Evasive Maneuver Test (evade that darn moose that did show up) RULLMOTSTÅND = Roll Drag Red marker = Studded Tires Blue Marker = Nordic Climate Design Green Marker = Central European Design Of course - not all of the tires in the test may be available in the US. And pick tire according to what road conditions you expect. The Continental TS830 is probably fine if you live somewhere around New York City, but if you live in Vermont you probably want the Nokian Hakka 7 (If you are allowed to use studded there...). <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 ^ Very surprised to see the non-studded Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice+ receive the same score for ice braking as the studded Hakka7. But if the test was done at -20F, then the result is believable. In the NAF tests, the Goodyear was well behind the Hakka7 (and other studded tires) in the ice braking test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 Auto Bild recently tested 8 "winter suv" tires in size 215/65 r16. The aging;) but still very competent Dunlop 3D was rated first overall. No ice testing was done. Interesting snow scores: Dunlop 3D: score of 10 Nokian WRG2: score of 3 Blizzak LM25: score of 6 http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-Auto-Bild-Winter-4x4-TyreTest.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09_Red_GT Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 So after reading all of this, I am no closer to picking my tire. Outahere and Tsi+WRX If you were to choose out of these three, which one would you pick. Pilot Alpine A4 Dunlop 3d Conti TS830 I live in Boston and drive a lot all over new england to ski and see relatives and such, and am just looking for the best out of these 3. Also I have not been able to find a place to by the Alpine A4 anywhere, it is the same as the Alpine PA3? Also no luck finding a place to buy the TS830's? Thank you in advance for the help. habitual derail-er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Of those three, I'd go with the 3Ds, based on availability alone...... <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09_Red_GT Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Nevermind went with the dunlops habitual derail-er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 I think you can buy TS830 in Canada. Alpine A4 I think is not available in North America. 3D is oldest of them. A4 the newest. I would pick the best one in wet if you can find reports. PA3 may be Pilot Alpin PA3 or Primacy Alpin PA3. Which one are you asking about? Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09_Red_GT Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 ^ Thanks I ended up with Dunlop Winter Sport M3's they seem like for the price, and for the driving I do, that these will be the best for the $$$. habitual derail-er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 M3 is ancient design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 11, 2010 Author Share Posted November 11, 2010 ^ Thanks I ended up with Dunlop Winter Sport M3's they seem like for the price, and for the driving I do, that these will be the best for the $$$. What is the date code on your new tires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.