outahere Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 The annual German ADAC tests of "performance winter" tires are now online. This year they tested in size 225/45-17. The top 3 overall scorers were the Michelin Alpin A4, the Conti TS830P, and the perennial favorite Dunlop 3D. http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2010_Winterreifen_Test_225_45_R17.aspx?ComponentId=40334&SourcePageId=31821 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 I had already posted a link to the summarized results of the 2010 CR test of winters in another thread, but I will post it here too. See top of page 4 of the linked page: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5022881-Recommended-snow-or-winter-tires/page4 The top chart is from 2009, and the bottom chart is from 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Scandinavian test results (from NAF and Afton Bladet) should be out in October sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Tirerack's test of 4 winter (ice & snow) tires this year: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=135 tires tested: Bridgestone Blizzak WS70, Continental ExtremeWinterContact, Dunlop Graspic DS-3 and Michelin X-Ice Xi2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Good stuff. So which tests happen at 'test world' in Finland? I was just reading some fresh test results from those, in Russian though. Hakka 7 came out first among studded, and Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice+ some how edged over both some Conti's, Hakka Rs and Xi2. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Good stuff. So which tests happen at 'test world' in Finland? I was just reading some fresh test results from those, in Russian though. Hakka 7 came out first among studded, and Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice+ some how edged over both some Conti's, Hakka Rs and Xi2. The Scandinavian tests I know of are NAF, Teknikens Varld, Motorforaren, Auto Motor & Sport, Aftonbladet and Vi Bilagare. Test World must be Teknikens Varld? I believe some of them share the same test results. Addendum: found this after some searching: "Winter test run by professional tire testers at the company Test World at their test facility in Ivalo, Finland. The Motor in Norway, Aftonbladet and Auto Motor & Sport in Sweden, Tekniikan Mailma in Finland and Russia Autorevue paying the test, select the tires and decide which properties to be tested." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Great compilation guys, thanks! dmanaenk - I've been trying to find the 2010 Auto Review (RU) article for a while now, with no success. What search terms did you use? outahere - Did you stay up late just so you can "First" the ADAC tests? I went up to bed at around 11PM last night, but left the ADAC page up on the desktop in the study, just so I could hit "refresh" first thing this AM. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Some early observations - I won't be able to do much studying on this today, as Anna and I are home because she's on holiday from school/daycare for the day. Cheesecake Factory for lunch!!!! FWIW, the super high ranking of the Nokian WR G2 in this year's CR was something that'd been gnawing away at me; it's traditionally be a very middle-of-the-road runner (if that), which, based on its specific aims, I honestly don't blame it for, at all. But it looks like - at least without quantitative data from CR - that at least the compounding has been reformulated. Look at the ice scoring on both the CR as well as the ADAC H-rated tests: relative to other known benchmarks (looks like the 3D either was not reformulated or the reformulation slightly decreased its ice capabilities, which was class-leading last year). Still surprised that it came out so far on top, on the CR. The conclusions there really confuse the hell out of me. ---- dmanaenk - I managed to scrub through the "Archives" on the Auto Review website, and find the articles I needed. Boy, was that labor intensive. Well, at least it's always around issues 17/18/19. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I went up to bed at around 11PM last night, but left the ADAC page up on the desktop in the study, just so I could hit "refresh" first thing this AM. Sorry to tell you TSi+WRX, but you have Compulsive Tire Test Result Search Disorder. CTTRSD in short. Or you are very dedicated. Krzys ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 ^ No, no, I'm in no way worse than outahere. Look, that brother took "First" with this update post, at just past 12-midnight. If I've got a disorder, he should be committed! :lol: Truth be told, I think that all 4 of us (so far on this thread, and I can think of at least one other - stevehecht - too ) should be committed, for our obsession with winter tires. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Great compilation guys, thanks! dmanaenk - I've been trying to find the 2010 Auto Review (RU) article for a while now, with no success. What search terms did you use? You know russian or used a translator? If the latter I wonder how it came out... I googled the title of the article, and I got the title from the front page, advertising their latest print edition. For older test you don't have to dig manually, just have to remember to search for 'tyre' not 'tire' when using google and such. The new one has been out in print just for a few days and the whole article is not accessible from links on the site. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 ^ No, no, I'm in no way worse than outahere. Look, that brother took "First" with this update post, at just past 12-midnight. ............ I found the ADAC test at 9:00 PM last night, local time, pacific standard time. And yes, I do have a strange tire compulsion. If I had the money and space, I would have a tire museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 ...........But it looks like - at least without quantitative data from CR - that at least the compounding has been reformulated. Look at the ice scoring on both the CR as well as the ADAC H-rated tests: relative to other known benchmarks (looks like the 3D either was not reformulated or the reformulation slightly decreased its ice capabilities, which was class-leading last year).............. Yes, I agree that the WRg2 has possibly undergone some formulation changes since last year to improve its ice traction. Looks like Michelin has met their goals for the new Alpin A4. They have publicly stated that for all their tires they are focusing on improving tread life, fuel efficiency, and wet braking. The A4 beat all the other tires tested in the area of tread life, by a large margin. It tied for 1st in wet performance, and tied for 3rd in fuel efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 You know russian or used a translator? If the latter I wonder how it came out... Ran it through the Google Translator. I had two undergrad students from Russia (both first-generation, man, were they HARD workers!), but alas, no more. One moved closer to home (PA) to finish his degree, the other, I'm proud to say, has landed a paid Internship at his chosen profession. The text came out pretty well, but it fails to translate all the way through to the end of the page, so I ended up manually copy-pasting the second half. Also, it doesn't translate the .gif files for the charts, so that's a pain in the butt. I should try their "translate document" feature, for that..... I googled the title of the article, and I got the title from the front page, advertising their latest print edition. For older test you don't have to dig manually, just have to remember to search for 'tyre' not 'tire' when using google and such. The new one has been out in print just for a few days and the whole article is not accessible from links on the site. Smart!!!! ---- If I had the money and space, I would have a tire museum. ^ I'm starting to get there! I now have three active sets on my car, and I don't even race! ---- @ outahere - Agreed w/Michelin Alpin interpretation. That's pretty darned impressive, when they say they specifically targeted something, and managed to achieve it, confirmed by independent testing. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 This is 2 years in a row that Blizzak has not showed up for winter ADAC testing. The last time was in 2008, with the LM25. Bridgestone has the LM30 and LM35 available in the European market, so one has to wonder why ADAC does not test them. Maybe not available in the German market?? From tyrepress.com: "For this coming winter Bridgestone has prepared two further new-generation Blizzak cold weather tyres, both suited to the seasonal conditions in central Europe. Both tyres, the manufacturer claims, provide higher driving safety as well as environmental and economic advantages. The new Blizzak LM-30 is tuned for safety on snow and ice, with particular attention paid to wet braking, while the Blizzak LM-35 focuses on secure winter performance; Bridgestone says it delivers excellent high-speed motorway handling on both wet and dry surfaces. Both replacement market tyres have been tested by leading car manufacturers, Bridgestone adds. The void ratio, edge density and block stiffness of each tyre’s asymmetric tread pattern is tuned to reach the tyres’ different respective performance profiles. Grip on wet and wintry surfaces is enhanced by the application of multiple advanced siping technologies across the pattern blocks, producing a larger overall contact area and edge component. This is helped by the use of a new polymer in the compound, which improves silica dispersion. Bridgestone reports it has also made the new Blizzak tyres more environment-friendly and economical in comparison to the Blizzak LM-25 they replace. By reducing rolling resistance by up to 16 per cent through weight loss resulting from the optimisation of the carcass shape and belt package, fuel consumption has been cut by up to 2.5 per cent and CO2 emissions reduced by up to 4.5 g/km. The LM-30 and LM-35 also reduce pass-by noise by more than 1dB and in-car noise by 2dB. The Blizzak LM-30 targets a wide range of compact, mid-sized and family cars up to T and H speed ratings. It offers, says Bridgestone, safe all-round winter driving with maximum control on snow and ice, and the reassurance of short braking distances on slush and wet. Features of note include new “3D Washboard and slit” siping on the centre rib for extra grip and block stiffness, high edge density in the centre area for maximum bite on hard-packed snow and ice, and continuous Z-shape lugs which enhance edge effect and snow shear force in all driving directions. According to Bridgestone, test results versus its LM-25 predecessor (size 205/55 R16 on VW Golf 5 TDI) show significant gains in snow traction and braking, superior wet performance and up to 16 per cent less rolling resistance. The Blizzak LM-35 targets high-powered cars up to V speed rating. The pattern design features four wide grooves designed to accommodate fast drainage from the contact patch and effective braking and acceleration, 3D-shaped block edges to increase resistance to hydroplaning, and a longitudinal cast groove on the shoulder blocks for maximizing cornering stability. Testing versus the LM-25 predecessor (225/45 R17 on Golf 5 TDI) confirms, says Bridgestone, the Blizzak LM-35’s active, secure driving performance with increased grip and stability at higher speeds in wet and dry. Results show rolling resistance is reduced by up to 14 per cent, with consequent benefits in fuel efficiency and emission reductions. The two tyres will be launched in Europe from June 2009. The Blizzak LM-30 is initially available in 31 sizes from 14 to 17-inch rim sizes, with the Blizzak LM-35 available in four 16 and 17-inch sizes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 ^ So the LM60 isn't a direct replacement for the LM22/25, after all..... But yes, one's got to wonder, why the absence of the Bridgestones, from the European tests. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Found this to be very interesting, in the Auto Review (RU) 2010 test: Now the asphalt. Опираясь на результаты измерений, мы в очередной раз хотим развеять миф о том, что шипованные шины на асфальте работают хуже нешипованных. Based on the results of measurements, we again want to dispel the myth that the studded tires on asphalt work worse than non-studded. Взгляните на таблицу, где приведены значения тормозного пути на мокром асфальте: первые девять результатов — за шипованными шинами! Look at the table where the values of stopping distance on wet pavement: the first nine results - for the studded tires! И среди них, кстати, есть «пожилые». And among them, incidentally, is "mature." Объясняется это просто: в большинстве случаев структура протектора у «скандинавских» нешипованных шин мягче, чем у шипованных, а на асфальте «мягкие» покрышки работают хуже. The reason is simple: in most cases the structure of the tread of "Scandinavian" non-studded tires softer than a studded, and on the asphalt "soft" tires work worse. Хотя бывают исключения. Although there are exceptions. Например, при выполнении «переставки» с торможением на мокром асфальте лучший результат — у нешипованных шин Goodyear UltraGrip Ice+. For example, when performing "perestavki with braking on wet pavement the best result - a non-studded tires Goodyear UltraGrip Ice +. И на сухом асфальте эти покрышки хорошо показали себя с точки зрения управляемости. And on dry pavement, these tires performed well in terms of manageability. Значит, на них стоит обратить внимание жителям крупных городов. Hence, they should pay attention to the inhabitants of large cities. From what I can remember, last year was the first where outahere led the charge here, to point out the fact that in many European tests over the past half-decade, it's being repeatedly proven that modern premium studded tires are not "dangerous" on clear wet or dry roadways. This, I feel, needs to be further reinforced, as every time the discussion comes up, no matter what, someone will always come forward with this same unfounded claim. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 It was long time ago that I was able to read Russian and understand it I think that: «переставки» - "perestavki" probably mean manouvers. Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 ^ The Google Translator does me well enough. I wish I had my Russian students back, though. I'm a first-generation Taiwanese (Chinese by ancestry) immigrant, having moved here when I was 8/9. At one point, I was able to read/write Chinese...sadly, no more. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskiTrombone Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Maneuvers is right. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Unless 'maneuver' has a meaning I'm unaware of - it's not right. "perestavki" basically means something like moose/deer evasion via quick intense braking and a subsequent lane change. The test itself seeks to determine the highest safe speed to do this on a given tire. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/maneuver "(US) A movement, often one performed with difficulty. Parallel parking can be a difficult maneuver" Changing direction during the test can be called "maneuvers" in my dictionary (not that I can spell it properly on first attempt :-) Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 24, 2010 Author Share Posted September 24, 2010 It was long time ago that I was able to read Russian and understand it I think that: «переставки» - "perestavki" probably mean manouvers. Krzys As in the "moose avoidance maneuver". The test that I believe the Blizzak WS50 failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 24, 2010 Author Share Posted September 24, 2010 Here is an indirect link to 2010 Auto Zeitung Winter Tyre Tests: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-Auto-Zeitung-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm This time, the Alpin A4 came in 7th, instead of 1st as in the ADAC test. But the dunlop 3D repeated its 3rd place finish. It appears that Autozeitung does not test for performance on ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 ^ Most interesting.... Does tire size also factor into this equation? <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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