AVO Project Outback part 1

[Pawlwawl06]

Subscribed! This is really interesting! Interested in seeing the results from the intake.

[GEE-OTTO]

Paul,

 

I could see staged N/A kits the dealt more with handling than power as a first step in the N/A direction. With what you have in the above picture would make most 2.5is leaps and bounds better.

 

Is that a Anti-Lift kit?? What size bar will you be using? to connect all those goodies

[thestratomaster]

They should totally make stage kits for the 2.5!

[apexjapan]

Yes, that's the anti-lift kit (aka CAB bushing).

 

We'll be doing suspension bits first, but that doesn't mean we'll ignore stage kits either. It'll just take time to get everything done - I haven't even had time to look at anything today.

 

I've had some time to drive it around a bit more, chuck it through a few more corners. The base suspension in the 2.5i isn't horrid, but I can tell one of it's biggest shortcomings is the shocks, it's very underdamped. It also suffers from the usual problems. The cheap tires on it hides a lot of them because they don't have much traction, the suspension on these cars get overloaded quite fast once you have decently grippy rubber on them.

 

The lower arm bushings will help cure the front's toe changes in the corners. The stabilizer bar mounts in the rear will help with the "snap" you get from the rear, that happens when you load up the rear bar and the standard mounts start bending. Haven't gotten a final sizing on the front/rear stabilizer bars, but I'm imagining something like a 23mm front/20mm rear. I know that sounds like a recipe for understeer, but combined with the front lca bushings and some other bits and pieces, it makes for a good, fast setup on the track that isn't going to bite you badly if you overcook a corner.

 

The area that I really have to look at past those is the dampers and springs. Going to really need better damping, but I'm planning to attach a hitch to it, so we can take a trailer to events. So it will be interesting to balance all that out.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[BoozeRS05]

I'm subscribed..

[GEE-OTTO]

@ Paul,

 

Yeah 20mm solid in the rear and 23mm up front seems right good thing I didnt buy that Perrin 25mm kit F&R Basically replace your struts and springs, LCA, and F&R bars, links mounts ??

[apexjapan]

I'll be honest, I can't imagine a need for a 25mm f/r kit outside of some very hardcore track duties. The Outback isn't that heavy, and you'd need to be running slicks on a short, hot course to start feeling that need. IMHO.

 

I'd like to put front and rear underbraces on, but sadly only the rear underbraces fit on non-turbo models. I'll be putting those in at least, every little bit helps. Right now at the beginning the car doesn't feel that bad, but by the time we have the turbo kit in with some decent rubber and suspension and are doing track events, I'm going to want to tighten up the body every which way I can. Putting in stiffer suspension increases the amount of impacts and cornering forces on the body itself.

 

That's another reason I don't like to go too overboard on stabilizer bars and struts/springs/coilovers. After a certain points, all you are doing is making the body do all the suspension duties. Only so much of that it was engineered for.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[juicy0828]

Paul,

 

Thank your for speaking with me on Sunday about the cold air intake and such. Looking forward to following along with what you are doing with the non-turbor motor.

 

Jim

[GEE-OTTO]

Yeah AKLGT told me the same months ago when Perrin had that nice sale on the RSB I figured a solid 20mm in the rear and a 22mm would work fine like the Whiteline bars

[OhBe1]

Looking forward to dyno results on the intake, but especially what you come up with for damping that

a) doesn't lower much;

b) is commuter friendly;

c) fits in say, a $600 budget.

And - thanks for doing this. It's been a pain getting reliable upgrade info for this thing.

[thestratomaster]

^^Ditto that!

[apexjapan]

Sorry for no updates earlier - I was working on getting the logging sorted, and then was installing these:

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/07_july/underbrace/brace_001.jpg

 

I'll have a full write up of the install with some tips on it. It can be fairly easy, or fairly difficult, depending on tools you bring to the job and what shape the car is in. Let's just say one side took longer than the other.... >.<

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[apexjapan]

Hmmm, where to start.

 

Well, first off, if you are going to do this car, you need to make sure you have two 17mm sockets, a 19mm socket, and a 22mm/7/8ths socket. A 17mm wrench wouldn't hurt as well. I used ramps to put the rear in the air, but you could probably use some jackstands as well. You should have one additional jack, such as the car jack, as well. And maybe a beer or two. Or JD.

 

Get it up on the ramps, get some safety glasses on, and take a look at it all:

 

General area you will be working on. Big 19mm on the right, two 17mm in the middle there

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/07_july/underbrace/brace_004.jpg

 

Find the rear camber adjustment bolt, and mark it. Otherwise you will end up needing an alignment afterwards.

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/07_july/underbrace/brace_002.jpg

 

17mm at the rear of the bolt, where you will be putting the brace.

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/07_july/underbrace/brace_005.jpg

 

 

You'll be taking out that big 19mm bolt (it is quite long) and then the 17mm nut and bolt at the top of the arm there. That 17mm is going to be the hardest part. Especially if you have a car whose suspension is tweaked a bit back there. When you finally get that nut and bolt out, you can toss it - that is what the long black AVO nut/bolt replaces (also 17mm).

 

TIP: Place the spare jack underneath the bottom of the rear damper, and screw it up a bit. This is to put enough pressure to keep that lower arm in place. Otherwise, a 15 minute job will take 2 hours as you try to wrestle the old bolt out and kill a kitten trying to get the new bolt in.

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/07_july/underbrace/brace_007.jpg

 

The 17mm nut at the rear of the camber bolt comes off. Leave the thick washer and the epileptic washer in place.

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/07_july/underbrace/brace_009.jpg

 

The install process is generally simple - make sure you have the bracket for the correct side of the car (it's hard to mess up, as they won't fit otherwise) and torque all the nuts down to factory specs. Make sure to match the camber bolt up with the marks you made on it earlier!

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/07_july/underbrace/brace_008.jpg

[sulk]

Paul, thanks for keeping us updated, and so often.

Us 2.5i guys have been in the dark for so long, and this project seems like it will turn out to be something big.

 

Even if there are small updates, it would be great to stay updated on them.

 

Kinda don't know how to say it, but thanks for the updates, and please keep them up! Really looking forward to this project.

[N.sane]

^+1!

 

I have the rear lower arm bars on my to-do list, your walkthrough will help along with the install. Thanks!

[apexjapan]

No worries guys, doing what I can.

 

Feedback on the modification: It does actually tighten up the rear on the car, actually a bit more than I expected. Keep in mind, though, the car has 182k on the chassis, so things are feeling a bit loose all over. There may not be as noticeable an effect on a new car. On the other hand, it'd probably help a new car from getting as loose as mine as you pile on the mileage.

 

I've driven it around a bit now, and I'll get back underneath and re-torque the bolts one more time. It always helps to do that after you fitted it and it's had some time to settle.

 

Logging is mostly sorted, but I'm trying to add a few more parameters to the Tactrix 2.0 standalone logging. I don't mean to complain, but the information on setting it up for standalone logging isn't in exactly the clearest english. Dumbing it down for the people that don't speak programmerlish wouldn't really hurt.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[apexjapan]

OK - I did a couple of runs with the car. First, I did a baseline run with the stock panel filter, then I did a run with the AVO panel filter. This run was from 40-60mph in 3rd gear.

 

One thing I pulled from the data is that differences are much smaller on the NA side of the world than on the turbo side. Only went from a 6.9 second run to 6.4 second run. If you look at the logs, the intake air temperatures increased from 61 degrees to 64 degrees degrees. Ignition timing went from 21 degrees to 23.5 degrees though, so the AVO filter had a significant difference despite the increase in heat over the day. I haven't reset the ECU at all, I'll see what we get once I do that.

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/media/baseline.csv

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/media/avo_panel.csv

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[dschultz]

And here's power and torque comparison between your two runs.

The reference trace is the baseline while the current (thicker) trace is the AVO panel run.

Runs up to 6000rpm are best. The baseline run probably didn't get to peak power.

[thestratomaster]

I must be reading that wrong. The filter gave it 13hp and 7lb/ft???

[N.sane]

And here's power and torque comparison between your two runs.

The reference trace is the baseline while the current (thicker) trace is the AVO panel run.

Runs up to 6000rpm are best. The baseline run probably didn't get to peak power.

[OhBe1]

I must be reading that wrong. The filter gave it 13hp and 7lb/ft???

 

Ditto. Amazing if correct.

[underground000]

Find the rear camber adjustment bolt, and mark it. Otherwise you will end up needing an alignment afterwards.

 

The Outback has rear camber bolt? Didnt know that, I know the Legacy's dont have one...The Outback one should work on the Legacy??, and its not very technical so it cant be that expensive

 

edit: I remembered I bought that part at dealer before and bolt length was too short...wondered if I got the wrong part

[thestratomaster]

Ditto. Amazing if correct.

 

I guess he said the baseline run didn't hit full power

[dubunderpar]

Since I own an 07 OB this project is near and dear to me and if the final cost isn't astronomical than I am down. But like most things, I hope it isn't just cheaper to sell mine and by an XT.

[GEE-OTTO]

Since I own an 07 OB this project is near and dear to me and if the final cost isn't astronomical than I am down. But like most things, I hope it isn't just cheaper to sell mine and by an XT.

 

.........it is