Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and DW750s

[LittleBlueGT]

I thought that would be an 8% difference when comparing cross sectional area.

 

 

MAFv wouldn't go up by 8%, MAF g/s would.

 

I had to look at the general curve of the intake scaling to guesstimate were the HTA68 would flow on a 70mm intake.

[LittleBlueGT]

Have any good comparisons to your 380 with what you have done so far with the 68?

 

Noting yet, as the AVO380 was run on alky w/ EWG, but so far no hta68 on alky.

 

It flows about 30 g/s more air and spools a couple hundred rpm faster. Nothing huge, but just enough to be a noticeable difference in both spool and power.

 

I think that when Garrett has the new GT28 comp wheels out, that might make the AVO380 a real nice turbo. (expect that to take a year or more)

[LittleBlueGT]

Got fed up with our gas and a TMIC. On long 4th gear runs I would get knock as the TMIC started to heat up, even in the 0F weather we have had lately.

 

So I will try my luck with a FMIC. The itsme's FMIC is small, but bigger then any TMIC, and hopefully that size will work half-decent for the hta68. I hope the medium size of the FMIC will allow decent throttle response, a decent pump tune, and I am sure it will allow for a respectable alky-tune.

 

I just got scared when I think about my EGTs at 4th gear WOT at 5000 rpm but only running 11 or 12 degrees of timing (running more now, but when the weather is 70F it would be about 11 or 12).

 

I can do single gear (3rd) runs without much trouble, but if doing a multiple gear run, or a long 4th gear run it is obvious that it is heat-soak causing the detonation.

 

I theorize I should be able to add 2 degrees of timing to what I can run on a single gear run, which will end up being an additional 4 degrees from what I run now.

 

Stay tuned.

[Ridgeracer]

Hummm....I run 12 degrees at peak torque and 19.5 @ redline. I could run a degree more up top with CT gas vs NYC for some reason. Can't wait to give you some comparisons when I install mines. I think I have all that I need to install my 68hta, just need time and a warmish day to do it.

[Legend]

So I will try my luck with a FMIC.

 

Cool! I'd like to see you run the exact same tune (only initially) to see what changes the IC alone makes.

[05lgt5spd]

hta68, k&n, dw's, fmic=FTW! when I had my car dyno'd, there was an sti, exact same mods as me, but he had a perrin tmic. I have the x02 fmic. I pulled 10 more ft/lbs than him at the same psi. do it

[yamie700]

05lgt5spd what MAF voltage do you reach with the typhoon and the hta68? Also what is it scaled to at 5v?

[LittleBlueGT]

I should change the title of thread, as I run the KSTech intake now.

 

I will try and show back to back from TMIC to FMIC on the same tune.

[wsmith30132]

^ Please don't show that..... All of your posts and data has given me the confidence to stick with my setup. Man, if you switch and show all of your patented graphs and details on the comparisons i'm screwed!!! Better yet, you should just go ahead and give me your contact info as my old lady will have some choice words for you and your influences...

[Legend]

I will try and show back to back from TMIC to FMIC on the same tune.

 

I'd love to see it. A guy with about a similar setup as me but with FMIC last week made 10whp more peak (same day/dyno/fuel/turbo). Both of his power curves were shifted to the right though. I surmised it was the different TMIC (although it could have been tune or the fact his car is an '09 WRX).

 

Anyhow, is that what you would expect? Greater peak whp and curves shoved a little to the right?

[Scooby2.5]

hta68, k&n, dw's, fmic=FTW! when I had my car dyno'd, there was an sti, exact same mods as me, but he had a perrin tmic. I have the x02 fmic. I pulled 10 more ft/lbs than him at the same psi. do it

 

I think this shows us how good the STI TMIC is!

[Scooby2.5]

So littleblue can you give us a run down of your old setup to what you are now running?

[LittleBlueGT]

I'd love to see it. A guy with about a similar setup as me but with FMIC last week made 10whp more peak (same day/dyno/fuel/turbo). Both of his power curves were shifted to the right though. I surmised it was the different TMIC (although it could have been tune or the fact his car is an '09 WRX).

 

Anyhow, is that what you would expect? Greater peak whp and curves shoved a little to the right?

 

I expect about 10 whp more with the same tune. I expect about 25+ whp more once I can run decent timing that is not kept low to deal with heat-soak.

 

I actually also expect a good 15+ whp more on alky, but that will be hard to show for sure as I still haven't done an alky run.

 

I do not expect the curve to shift to the right at all. I surmise that your low end power was better then your buddies to do good old fashioned TLC in your tune.

 

The FMIC will take a few ms more to pressurize, this will not show up at all on a WOT run, or on a dyno.

 

It will show up when driving it and you notice the slight difference in throttle response. I don't think it will be too bad, as this FMIC has fairly small piping, and is not at all big. Also, the HTA68 is very responsive, much better then any of the STI (or VF52) that I have tuned/logged locally. It may be my ELH, but I get to boost (and more importantly airflow and power) slightly before the VF52 or VF39 I have messed with.

[LittleBlueGT]

Of note on timing. I don't have nice (patented ) graphs showing it, but I seem to pick up 10 whp with 1 degree of timing where I am at right now. I think if you plotted out torque vs timing it would be a non-linear graph.

 

ie: running 13 climbing to 23 degrees of timing may be optimal for my set-up on really really good gas, but dropping 1 degree from that ideal might be a loss of 4 whp. But in the timing range I am in it seems to be on the sharper part of the curve, and results in a bigger change.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[LittleBlueGT]

So littleblue can you give us a run down of your old setup to what you are now running?

 

Sure:

 

TMIC, AVO380, EWG, ELH, TBE, TGV, inlet =

 

Boost would taper down to 17.5 psi at red-line. Of note is that this would be 19 psi at red-line on most cars, but I found that headers, TGV, and inlet all increased the efficiency of the motor, but didn't change the overall airflow. I just was flowing the same amount of air at a lower psi, but couldn't get anymore out of it.

 

All the same but HTA68 =

 

Boost tapering down to 19.5 psi at red-line, flowing about 20 g/s more then AVO380. Spool is about 250 rpm faster, 3rd gear. Guessing here, but 2nd gear spool is about 350 faster, 1st gear spool is likely about 500 faster.

 

Other then that it is about the same.

 

 

 

(rant: I have been avoiding saying this for some time, but there are a whole bunch of mods that vendors [like Grimmspeed, who does have nice products] say increases whp by 10 whp or so, and they DO NOT!!!!!!! They run before and after dyno plots at the same psi/AFR/timing and show a 10 whp increase. I believe the car gained 10 whp, but it is misleading. If the turbo was being maxxed out before, the car would not have gained 10 whp. All the mods did was make the whole thing more efficient, and change slightly where in the comp range the turbo now is running. If the turbo was pushing the best it could before the changes, then the overall MRP would drop and the MAF would stay the same. I even believe this is true for EWG. I was suppose to run a full write-up on the GS EWG, but didn't cause it would make them look bad [and I like GS]. It made boost control great, but my turbo didn't flow anymore air. Even on my HTA68, I have run it on IWG [disconnected EWG, and put IWG actuator back in] and say very little increase in flow, just had to go to a higher psi [previously unattainable] to get it. I think bigger turbos may benefit more from things like TGVs, inlet, and EWG, but anything sub 50 lb/min is gonna be a very small change. [many tuners I have spoken with agree with me on this, especially the ones that are not trying to sell anything])

[Legend]

Of note on timing. I don't have nice (patented ) graphs showing it, but I seem to pick up 10 whp with 1 degree of timing where I am at right now. I think if you plotted out torque vs timing it would be a non-linear graph.

 

ie: running 13 climbing to 23 degrees of timing may be optimal for my set-up on really really good gas, but dropping 1 degree from that ideal might be a loss of 4 whp. But in the timing range I am in it seems to be on the sharper part of the curve, and results in a bigger change.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Shhhh... try running timing no lower than 20 degrees minimum and see what that does for torque. Wish you had access to good fuel, LBGT!

[LittleBlueGT]

Shhhh... try running timing no lower than 20 degrees minimum and see what that does for torque. Wish you had access to good fuel, LBGT!

 

That is why I run alky as soon as it is above freezing. In the winter I am worried about my tranny, cold temps and 380+ wtq might take it out), and it is usually icy snowy anyways, so the power can be hard to put down. Just this morning I tried twice to do some logs, looked like good pavement, but I just spun all 4, even in 4th.

 

I will do a torco plus alky tune in the future, but that future is gonna be about May.

 

But trust me, I have read enough about E85 that I think I could have my car 90% tuned for it before I even filled it up.

[Ridgeracer]

Legend...Is it because of your altitude that you can run that much timing up top? I wonder how much more timing I can run with this smaller hotside...?

[Infamous1]

Legend...Is it because of your altitude that you can run that much timing up top? I wonder how much more timing I can run with this smaller hotside...?

It is because of his E85.....

[Legend]

It is because of his E85.....

 

Ahh.. E85..

[Infamous1]

Ahh.. E85..

Almost makes me wanna supercharge the Z06 just to run it....

E85...

[Legacy_GT_Pilot]

I'm curious - are you suggesting that on a 3rd gear pull from say 2k rpm, your timing doesn't drop below 20 degrees? Do you have any logs showing your boost and timing values.

 

I never really tried pushing my timing around my torque peak when tuning my 20G. I had it dropping to about 12 degrees just before full boost, and then climbing very evenly to about 25 degrees at 6.5k rpm. I'm curious as to how your tune compares.

 

Shhhh... try running timing no lower than 20 degrees minimum and see what that does for torque. Wish you had access to good fuel, LBGT!

[LittleBlueGT]

I'm curious - are you suggesting that on a 3rd gear pull from say 2k rpm, your timing doesn't drop below 20 degrees? Do you have any logs showing your boost and timing values.

 

I never really tried pushing my timing around my torque peak when tuning my 20G. I had it dropping to about 12 degrees just before full boost, and then climbing very evenly to about 25 degrees at 6.5k rpm. I'm curious as to how your tune compares.

 

 

Alky and Torco and I am sure I can run the same timing as you. That will make a nice comparison. Can you say 375-385 whp?

[Legend]

I'm curious - are you suggesting that on a 3rd gear pull from say 2k rpm, your timing doesn't drop below 20 degrees? Do you have any logs showing your boost and timing values.

 

Yep. I run a lot of timing at peak torque. I don't want LBGT's thread to go too far astray from his tune so I just posted a graph on my tune thread.

[j255c]

This is what mine looks like. Very easy to keep the car in vacuum if needed and the throttle response is a lot better.

-Franz

 

http://www.subyshop.com/images/dbw.jpg

 

You mind posting your target throttle settings?