2008 and 2009 owners: beware of bad internals

[captainhook]

It is pretty bad when I have to go that far to prove that I know what the hell I am talking about and the fact I have helped so many out in my own free time. I don't know everything, but I am not one to BS either.

The amount of people on this forum (or any car forum for that matter) that speak from experience and not just out of there ass is typically damn low. Hence why I asked you to back up your story with proof. From the looks of it, you guys did somehow acquire a part that's technically not produced and not available. I am inspired to find out how that occurred now. For what it's worth, sorry for doubting you.

[m sprank]

^ Wow! Different kind of fireworks now. Is love in the air? :wub:

[captainhook]

. . . that's disturbing

[m sprank]

^ So is most of this thread, lol.

[captainhook]

Disturbing up close and personal:

 

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu325/tunedlgt/0914091314a-edit.jpg

[nightspeed98]

Personally, once I am established on what I do and recognized for what I do, i refuse to get in a pissing match with another member. I am impressed that blackfang went as far as he did to post his proof. I wouldn't have the patience. Obviously the man knows his shit and although he proved he wasn't bullshiting, the event is still in doubt. Somebody's pride got hurt. my opinion? He'll live. moving on.

[Dyl911]

Crap.

 

I just put a down payment on an '08 GT Limited. I pick it up on Saturday. It has 26k miles. I have no idea if it was modded, but it appears to be stock. I was thinking about a Cobb 2, but most likely, I'll keep it bone stock. Should I hit the panic button yet?

[Onthewagon]

^^ Not unless you have some reason to believe there is something wrong with (soon to be your) car. Obviously any used car purchase carries some uncertainty, but Legacies are known for their reliability. Welcome and gl

[m sprank]

I have 2 08's. 1 GT and 1 SpecB. My GT is VERY similar to captainhooks. But, I have not had his same misfortune. My GT has 27K on her and the Spec has 6K. No problems with either yet and both are modded. Not saying bad things don't happen (or won't still happen to me), but I am ready to buy a REAL block if mine goes.

 

It has been said many times before. If you want to play, you have to pay.

[captainhook]

Crap.

 

I just put a down payment on an '08 GT Limited. I pick it up on Saturday. It has 26k miles. I have no idea if it was modded, but it appears to be stock. I was thinking about a Cobb 2, but most likely, I'll keep it bone stock. Should I hit the panic button yet?

I wouldn't hit the panic button, yet, but I wouldn't buy it without a thorough look over, including a compression test. Best easy test, turn it on and let it idle for 10-15 mins, then give it a couple jabs to 4K rpm, if you see smoke, walk away. Keep in mind, people don't typically take a loss on a year old car unless it has had major problems.

 

Legacies are known for their reliability.

The NA's are.

[BradyCat]

Unfortunately there's no way I can prove it now, but FWIW my dealer definitely ordered and installed a new longblock in my old car. At least that's what they said. I didn't watch them or anything, but the dealership GM did show me on his computer the longblock they had on order from Japan.

[Dyl911]

Thanks for the information, gents. As it turns out, the car was originally sold in July '07, so it must have been produced a few months before that. (Now that I think about it, I bet it was returned after a two-year lease.)

 

Also, the last four digits of the vin are before the one on the troubled vin list I found on this board:

 

Model Body Type Chassis Number Production Date

Forester Wagon 701045 or later 2008/01/08 or later

Legacy 2.5GT-LTD 222825 or later 2008/02/04 or later

2.5GT-B 222958 or later

OBK 2.5XT-LTD 353835 or later 2008/02/01 or later

Impreza Sedan 523363 or later 2008/01/08 or later

Wagon 825183 or later

 

Still, just to be sure, I've ordered a compression/leak down/blow by test.

 

I look forward to a proper introduction once I get the car and take pictures.

 

Thanks again.

[legume]

Purchased my '08 Legacy 2.5i SE yesterday, googled the squeak I just discovered in my driver's seat when making a moderately sharp turn, and stumbled across this forum.

First I was somewhat dismayed to see so many have the seat issue with such a new vehicle with low miles, and then I found this thread. Seriously you guys have scared the crap out of me; I'm almost considering returning it as I'm still inside my 300 mile return policy. I would hate to do that as I was lucky to find this car, it is just the right price, color, options, everything I was looking for (well, almost everything, the 5 speed manual I found was sold out from under me on my way in to test drive), and it's my only mode of transport having just had my last car totaled.

A little background: I'm not exactly what you would call an enthusiast, or even very knowledgeable about cars in general, so I'm not sure if I really belong here. I have no mods and I don't plan to. I bought the car because of the safety, handling (like I said not an enthusiast but I do care about the driving experience, hence my desire for a manual), and supposedly the overall reliability of Subaru's. I have ~6,000 left on the bumper to bumper warranty.

I don't race or drive like a nut, but I do like to open it up on the freeway every now and then (love the sound of the boxer). I thought I may have smelled burning oil at a stop light after some steep acceleration, but I'm also very paranoid having had very bad luck with cars in the past (including 2 Accords). It could have been another car, I'm not sure.

 

 

Any advice? Should I be worried? Last 6 digits on my VIN: 209689

[mwiener2]

^no. there is no issue for you to be worried about

[legume]

Thanks, I hope you are right, as I love the car, and intend to drive it to 200,000 miles or beyond. The AWD will be a life saver (possibly literally) through brutal MN winters.

 

I'll mention the oil smell when I bring it in for the seat, hopefully it's just my imagination.

[TSiWRX]

We're all friends here - we shouldn't all have to go to such lengths to "prove" ourselves.

 

In any case, what I can contribute:

 

I can assure you I know more about what Subaru does and doesn't send a dealer;)

 

Our dealership service dept, myself, and my technician had a long block sent to us for a customers Forester XT last year by SOA( being we couldn't order the long block, they had one sent in) already assembled in a crate minus the turbo/intake manifold and those top end components. We had to replace the turbo and swap over the intake manifold and other top end parts.

They may not sell replacement motors for every dealer to order as protocol, but they do produce them for certain circumstances. As in our case, we were told not to even go into the engine and they were going to ship us a new long block. So yes technically they do make them, the dealership just can't go an order one. My bad, I must lay off the damn drugs then:lol: No better yet, I won't waste MY time arguing with you because you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

 

I know from reading this thread that blackfang has already proven himself (despite the now missing picture of the work order that blackfang had, I believe, once posted - and I can definitely understand why he elected to remove it, once he's proved his point), but I still wanted to share, as I think I have pertinent information.

 

My wife's '09 FXT's engine went at approx. 4200 miles on the ODO.

 

I did the first oil-change at 1K miles, of which I also utilized the prescribed Subaru break-in procedure, as stated in the Owner's Manual. The next oil change came at just around 3800 miles (my father's stuck the "3K miles or 3-months, whichever first" mantra in my brain, and I just can't get it out), right before a road-trip from Cleveland to Monroe, Michigan.

 

It was during the return part of that trip when I believe I heard the first signs of something gone awry, but nothing truly manifest until about 100 miles later (between 4100 and 4200 miles). At that time, after coming off a short jaunt on the highway, when I threw the car into park, the engine made a series of knocking noises - akin to sticking your knuckle into a fan with plastic blades. The noise stopped after perhaps only 15 seconds, but it was plainly audible, when it was. At the time, we'd just reached our dinner destination - on our return trip, about 2 miles away from home, the noise returned, noticeably increased in intensity and duration (whenever engine speeds dropped), and the oil-pressure light flickered. I immediately pulled-over, thinking that something must have happened to allow the car to lose oil, that it was my fault, but when I extracted the dipstick, it still showed "full." This was confirmed when I drained the about 4 and 1/2 quarts of oil from the engine and filter the next day.

 

We had the car flat-bedded to our dealer.

 

No powertrain mods, if you discount the about one week's worth it spent with the intake resonator pulled - which the wifey got tired of, so I replaced. The vehicle is leased, and she told me to: "not f*ck with it" - her words, not mine.

 

Yes, our VIN falls within the range of the '08 "Stop Sale." We signed the lease at the end of March, '09, and yes, the car had supposedly been "tested," and passed.

 

Service Advisor took one listen to it, and said it wasn't good. This I'd figured, as I'd heard enough, from the various YouTube videos of this particular concern.

 

They called the next day, and said that it'd be a new longblock. I was surprised enough, thinking that it would be a new shortblock, so I asked again, "longblock?" - but the Service Advisor repeated and confirmed, "longblock."

 

Here's the paperwork, which we got at sign-out, some one and a half week later:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u259/TSi_WRX/RockyLongblock1.jpg

^ Those who've known me here for a while (I've been here since May of '05) or from other communities - or in real-life - can confirm that's my wife's real name. Local LERSOC (Lake Erie Regional Subaru Owners Club) and/or Forced4s members can also see this document, first-hand, if they wish.

 

I never went back to see if an old longblock was there, in their bays. All I can say, after this weekend's break-in oil-change, is that the drain plug that's on the vehicle was, indeed, painted onto the pan, and required my 24" 1/2-inch drive breaker-bar to loosen.

 

While the FXT was in their possession, since we had that little accident with our loaner (an '09 Forester X), I did get a chance to speak with one of their techs, who said that yes, it's a new longblock, that he's put one in before, about a half-year ago, for another '09 FXT.

 

I don't think that particular tech is blackfang, though - nor the dealers one and the same.

 

I'm in Cleveland, Ohio.

 

Oh, and BTW, I also had to call the dealership so that I could reclaim my Fumoto Valve, which I'd left on the old engine/pan, and which I didn't discover was still at the dealership until the night we came home with our newly transplanted FXT, and I looked underneath. They wrenched off the valve for me the next day. Although I did not personally witness the procedure, the tech came out from their back bay with a wrench in-hand, and cleaning my valve with a shop-rag. I think that'd have been a little too far to go, for subterfuge.

[m sprank]

More blackfang redemption.

[nightspeed98]

dude, my motor went at about the same mileage (4700)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! scary. how do i verify long or short block? what are the benefits of one over the other?

[Soda Popinski]

My subaru dealership continues to insist that the white puffs of smoke I get after 15 minutes of driving, sitting at a light in "D" is normal. It doesn't happen every time, but once a week, I'll be sitting at a light and see white smoke wafting from the back slightly.

 

They claim this is completely normal for a newly rebuilt engine.

 

I digress, this car will be the end of me, lol!

[captainhook]

/\ Yeah, it will be if you don't unload it while you can. That smoke is NOT normal.

 

After a bit of digging+research by Subaru-employed friends it seems the motors produced during the stop-sale that blew up are being replaced with long blocks as a sort of quiet recall. So quiet that many Subaru employees aren't even aware of it until they have to deal with one. But it's specific to only those vehicles, no one else is eligible for receiving the mystical long block Subaru "doesn't offer." lol. Bummer for me.

[TSiWRX]

^ I wonder if you made some more noise, if they will offer it as a way to "make good."

 

Of the engine-replacements that I've kept track of, Subaru seems to have told their dealerships to roll out the red carpet, literally, for people like us.

 

Given that AutoWeek's long-term FXT just blew up at around 15K on the ODO, this is becoming quite the black-eye on Subaru. IIRC, CR even dropped the reliability rating of the FXT down a notch, because of this specific concern.

 

Maybe you could use that to your advantage?

[captainhook]

Yeah, I tried that and they simply told me, "your vehicle is not in the effected batch." However, if I do end up having problems with this short block I really won't have any reasonable choice but to drop the Lemon Law bomb. . . we'll see.

[TSiWRX]

^ I've got my fingers crossed for you.

[captainhook]

Lol, thanks. I think something is up though . . . the motor sounds rough and like it's struggling from ~1800-2300 rpm and I can feel the vibration through the seat. I'm not sure if it's anything a tech would pick up, but after putting 15K on the car I'm pretty in-tune to what is normal and what is not. At idle it seems like the car shakes far too much as well, but I hear no audible knocking sound. Something else odd is that the oil pressure reading on my STi-gauge set is reading MUCH higher since the new shortblock went in. By higher I mean 700-800kPa as opposed to 200-300kPa when cruising at 50 mph in 4th gear (5EAT) at maybe 5% throttle just to keep speed on a level road. Now I'm not sure if the old motor wasn't getting enough oil pressure and that's why it died or whether the new motor perhaps has a blockage somewhere that's causing the high pressure. The old short block's oil pressure topped out around 800 kPa at WOT, I only have ~400 miles on the new short block and refuse to boost it until I get a good 1000 miles on it. But if it's at 800kPa just cruising . . . what the hell is it going to go up to when I eventually floor it? The gauge maxes out at 1000kPa. I brought up the pressure change to some tech's I'm buddies with at the dealership and they told me more pressure is good . . . idk if I'm buying that though. Any thoughts on what normal operating oil pressures should be in these motors???

[TSiWRX]

That pressure seems on the high side to me, too.....

 

But look here at what killerbmotorsport had to say - it made sense to me:

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78603&page=28

 

Post #418 and 419.

 

Now, though, given that you're using the same gauge, same sender - and I assume that you're even getting the pressure reading from the same place you were getting it from, before....why so high, now? Your WOT figure for your old block seemed reasonable, but I honestly don't know if your 50 MPH/4th gear (5EAT)/~5% throttle figure of 200-300 kPa (30-43 PSI, right?) figure would be too low.....

 

I think we're all more or less used to seeing approx. pressures as detailed in these past posts:

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117898&highlight=idle+pressure

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104658&highlight=idle+pressure

 

As I keep saying, my technical pool-of-knowledge is quite shallow , so I'm ill-equipped to really render much advice, but off-hand, what I've been told is that as long as pressure is not too *low*, you're fine.

 

But shouldn't there also be an upper limit, or does it not work that way?