lowering springs recommendations/suggestions please

[king_j]

i currently have tein h-tech on stock shocks. i originally wanted the eibach pro kit. now that its available (eibach or msi), is it worth changing?

 

i know they are almost identical, but the tein springs have a bang/crash sound when going over sudden large bumps. would this be eliminated with the eibach springs?

[dr_sharp]

That sound would probably be eliminated by proper installation.

[CBRRICH]

I'l let you knowhow I fare. I actually picked up a "banging" especially with passangers in the back. Did not notice it with the stock setup. Added the Ralitek rear swaybar, AVO mounts for it (which pushed it close to the exhaust pipe) and Bilstiens. Rallitek suggested I install longer mounts that dropped the exhaust about 1/2 inch. Seems to have helped but I'm not sure it's completely gone. we'll see what happens after I put the springs in. I may consider removing the AVO mounts. A lot to be said for adding things one at a time.

[SlickSpur]

I'l let you knowhow I fare. I actually picked up a "banging" especially with passangers in the back. Did not notice it with the stock setup.

 

This is with the Eibachs? Or you mean this is from adding the rear swaybar, mounts, and Bilstiens, before the springs went on?

 

Edit: Forgot to mention, got the Pro Kits in from TireRack yesterday. Ground shipping, took only 3 days to get here.

Edited July 29, 2010 by SlickSpur

[CBRRICH]

Correct, still have the stock springs at present. As best as I can tell, as the supension compresses in the rear, the rollbar roatates aft and hits the exhaust pipe if it goes far enough. The exhaust lowering donuts gave the pipes a little more clearance, but I still hear the banging, just not as often.

[SlickSpur]

Correct, still have the stock springs at present. As best as I can tell, as the supension compresses in the rear, the rollbar roatates aft and hits the exhaust pipe if it goes far enough. The exhaust lowering donuts gave the pipes a little more clearance, but I still hear the banging, just not as often.

Do your Eibachs say 7716.001 and 7716.002 on the front and rears?

 

Mine also have part #298445 and 296033 on them, not sure what that means.

 

Just want to make sure they sent me the right part number before I install them.

 

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/6952/imag0140f.jpg

 

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1232/imag0141fb.jpg

 

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2216/imag0142.jpg

Edited July 30, 2010 by SlickSpur

[blackturboblack]

Just installed the MSI/Eibachs and I hear a little clicking every now and then. Sounds like from the rear. It's not loud and doesn't happen constantly. To be honest, I don't know if it's been there all the time. Maybe it's just the springs settling? Any thoughts? I don't know. I do know this thing is sweet now. No more drifting. And curves are stupid. Can't wait to put on sways. BTW, now I have a set of stock LGT springs with 30k on them. Garbage?

[CBRRICH]

A little late for the fronts, I just finished putting them in but the rears have the same numbers, I assume all is good. Thie fonts went in fine, droped the front 1" as advertised, hopefully they will not "set" any lower because this is exactly where I want them with the Bilstiens: Back to stock ride height. The rears go in tommorow.

[CBRRICH]

Just installed the MSI/Eibachs and I hear a little clicking every now and then. Sounds like from the rear. It's not loud and doesn't happen constantly. To be honest, I don't know if it's been there all the time. Maybe it's just the springs settling? Any thoughts? I don't know. I do know this thing is sweet now. No more drifting. And curves are stupid. Can't wait to put on sways. BTW, now I have a set of stock LGT springs with 30k on them. Garbage?

Guess it would be hard to tell unless you did not have it before. Check to see that everything is tight for sure and make sure there is adequate clearance between the rear sway bar and the exaust pipes. That is one place I was getting contact but I also have AVO reinforcement mounts from Rallitek and thier rear swaybar which is larger in dameter.

[blackturboblack]

Guess it would be hard to tell unless you did not have it before. Check to see that everything is tight for sure and make sure there is adequate clearance between the rear sway bar and the exaust pipes. That is one place I was getting contact but I also have AVO reinforcement mounts from Rallitek and thier rear swaybar which is larger in dameter.

 

No. Now that I think about it, it wasn't there before. I think you may have something there. That's just what it sounds like: contact between the exhaust and something. It has that 'tinny' sound. I'll take a look, but really, I'm going to change my cat-back anyway.

[CBRRICH]

No. Now that I think about it, it wasn't there before. I think you may have something there. That's just what it sounds like: contact between the exhaust and something. It has that 'tinny' sound. I'll take a look, but really, I'm going to change my cat-back anyway.

Pretty easy to make out, just look for the closest place between the two parts and see if ther is amoark on both, there was on mine at the point of contact.

[SlickSpur]

A little late for the fronts, I just finished putting them in but the rears have the same numbers, I assume all is good. Thie fonts went in fine, droped the front 1" as advertised, hopefully they will not "set" any lower because this is exactly where I want them with the Bilstiens: Back to stock ride height. The rears go in tommorow.

 

Thanks.

 

Do the Bilstiens raise the car an inch?

 

As far as install/spring orientation, I assume you just want the numbers reading regular, not upside down?

[blackturboblack]

Pretty easy to make out, just look for the closest place between the two parts and see if ther is amoark on both, there was on mine at the point of contact.

 

That will have to wait. My clutch went out on me. And I had smelt it a few times and started to have it changed when I did the springs. :mad:

[CBRRICH]

Thanks.

 

Do the Bilstiens raise the car an inch?

 

As far as install/spring orientation, I assume you just want the numbers reading regular, not upside down?

The front springs were evident, the rears I monted with the tighter coils on top because that is the way the stock ones looked (closer to "flat" pressing against the rubber spring perch where the one on the bottom "butts" up against the edge). The fronts ended up pretty much exactly back to stock height with the Bilstiens. They raised it an inch and the springs lower an inch, net zero change. The rears are strange, with new springs and shocks there is still a 1/2' difference between the left and right. No sure how that is possible. I have 3/8 and 1/2 spacers to add to the rear. Hopefuly that will make everything back to normal or I might talke back one of the spacers to level things out.

[NZGT]

So what's the point in installing new springs if the car doesn't sit any lower? I had this issue with my cobb springs, the front ended up pretty close to stock height so I cut a coil off to lower it evenly with the rear

[CBRRICH]

The problem was when I installed the Bilstiens, they raised the front 1" (go figure). I was happy just to get back to level. Also a lower car does not fare well in New England. Between the bad roads and the Winters, you don't want to give up too much ride height. I've had other lowered cars, I got tired of bashing exhausts and bottoming springs. I could have cut the front spring but when you do you change the spring rate. The front spring has 3 active coils, you cut 1/2 a coil, your spring rate goes up 17%. A whole coil would be 33%. Would not work for me.

[peteyjr]

Good point

[Norm Peterson]

Evidently the gas pressure in the Bils is high enough to take load equal to 1" of spring compression off of the springs. 1" sounds a bit high though - half an inch is more what I recall being mentioned for gas pressure shocks in general.

 

Question - was this measurement taken before or after driving the car a little? (When you first drop your car off of the jack, the suspension normally does not find its static position because that requires a bit of lateral tire scrub from the droop position. Until you roll the car some, lateral tire grip is actually holding the car up.)

 

If there is no special position for both ends of the spring to be in, I don't see any reason that you'd need to cut in half coil increments. You might be able to estimate about how much based on the coil spacing with the car's load being fully on the wheels. IOW, if the loaded coil spacing is 3" center to center of adcacent coils and you need to lose 1", you'd be cutting about 1/3 coil. About 10% change is about the smallest that you'd notice.

 

It's also possible that the springs didn't get seated quite right, so check that (and fix if necessary) as well before doing any cutting.

 

 

Norm

Edited August 6, 2010 by Norm Peterson

[CBRRICH]

Here's my summary: I read though the various forums, this one in particular for springs and a "sticky" that Unclemat had well researched and verified himself on the fitting of Bilstiens. In brief , the Bilstiens front struts are meant to be mated to spec B top hats and springs and when you use the tophats and Bilstien struts with ANY spring, you ride height goes up about an inch relative to the same springs with stock struts and top hats. That is what I experienced when I replaced the stock struts and tophats and kept the stock springs.

I bought the Eibach springs with Bilstiens and Spec B Top hats because I wanted roughly stock ride height, the better control of Bilstiens, and a little stiffer ride but not harsh. My best reseach pointed to this combination. The fronts hit it pretty much exactly back to original ride height, the rears required me adding 7/8 of spacers from Paranoid Fabricators to offset the 7/8 drop from the Eibachs. Remember this is a wagon and the springs are intended for the sedan. We'll see where it finally settles and I'll let you know what I think about the overall handling and ride after a few weeks but first impression is the ride has not changed appreciably and control is somewhat improved.

I alligned the camber using a camber gage and approximated the toe with a tape measure, after a month I'll get the whole car alligned. Ride height on level ground (driving to the spot so everything was "settled") is ~14 1/4" front and 14 1/8" Rear fender well to hub center. The manual says nominal should be 15.0" front and 14.8" Rear so the car is lowered ~3/4" with brand new springs and shocks.

[CBRRICH]

When I considered that option, I measured 2" from coil to coil meaning I would have to cut 1/2 coil to get back the inch.

[SlickSpur]

Okay, it's been 5 days now since I installed my Eibach's. The rears sit nice, about a two finger gap, but the fronts are still about the same as stock. Its a 3 finger gap. Should it be taking this long to settle, or is there perhaps an install problem?

[NZGT]

Okay, it's been 5 days now since I installed my Eibach's. The rears sit nice, about a two finger gap, but the fronts are still about the same as stock. Its a 3 finger gap. Should it be taking this long to settle, or is there perhaps an install problem?

It's a Bilstien problem, cut half a coil off your front springs. I had to do this with my cobb springs as the front didn't go much lower than stock

[peteyjr]

It takes sveral days if not weeks for the springs tro completely settle

[SlickSpur]

It's a Bilstien problem, cut half a coil off your front springs. I had to do this with my cobb springs as the front didn't go much lower than stock

 

I have a GT though, so it's not Bilstiens.

 

The ends springs aren't seated all the way up against the "notch/ramp" on the bottom, both seemed to move away from it about 3/4" when I was decompressing the springs. I'm wondering if that was enough to change the height.

 

I may take them out again and try to redo the fronts. I may also try to re-adjust the tophat a bit.

[Siper2]

Okay, it's been 5 days now since I installed my Eibach's. The rears sit nice, about a two finger gap, but the fronts are still about the same as stock. Its a 3 finger gap. Should it be taking this long to settle, or is there perhaps an install problem?

 

I've not paid attention to this whole exchange, so forgive me if this is incorrect, but...

 

I recall needing "butt spacers" for the rear suspension, with the Bilstein struts and aftermarket springs. Some of the aftermarket vendors sell them, in a couple different widths.

 

Correct?