The B4 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 looks like next year my hatch will be for sale [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Once you start selling Subarus you will see how slim the market for any of these proposed concepts. Subaru sells foresters and outbacks period. If they built a forester xti it would be sitting on the lot for a year. I have been selling subarus for 2 months and just sold my first and probably last 09 lgt today. The problem is that very few educated consumers are in the high performance market. Most people who arent gear heads (99 percent) want a nice badge on the front of their new car so people will know how much they spent. In Europe they are far more educated and europeans keep cars way longer than americans. If Subaru built these legacy sti/forester xti cars they would be dreams for us who know what the hell is going on and a flop to all the dumbasses going out and buying fwd acura tl-s's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Ok. So According to Jordan's VAST 2 months of experience of selling vehicles in the worst automotive market in decades, the affordable performance car should just evaporate. Because Europeans are different and by definition, better. Americans are of course slothful, greedy, or both, and either uneducated or attention whores. Or again, both. So why bother, just accept the crap you are given, and keep caving in to the marketing that says you need another, bigger auto appliance this year, after buying one just last year, that now you are upside down on. And if you have a beater, because you can't afford a new Government Motors car, the Government wants you to go into huge debt to buy a new car to bolster up this wonderful pattern of buying cars, that they'll subsidize some of the purchase price, through "cash for clunkers", so you can go from clunker to brand new, and float both the banking AND auto industries at the same time, when otherwise it wouldn't be smart financially for you to accrue debt for a new car minus $4500 worth of voucher. Instead, they'll steal that money from taxpayers, and their children, and children's children. If you happen to be an unpretentious, knowledgeable, enthusiasts buyer, and by the slim chance, American, and even slimmer chance, on a budget, there are so few of you (or 'us', as the case might be) that nobody gives a rip, so buzz off and quit bothering people asking for better product at an affordable price, all the time. Nobody in the market of making cars really wants to compete, or make their previous products, or other company's products look bad, and actually set a precedent for success, so they're ALL gonna keep building the declining-quality crap, whatever they feel like shoveling onto the market that can appease CAFE, and all you good sheeple keep lapping up the monetary incentives to keep buying the marginal product that they could have built better or differently, but just didn't feel like doing... No offense, Jordan, but the whole "Europeans good, Americans stoopid" argument is getting thin, and the state of the US auto industry cannot be blamed on the consumer, when the US car companies are bankrupt due to not really doing well to appeal to customers demands, and then wondering why US subsidiaries of imported cars are doing the same thing... chasing government regs, not customer demands. The whole industry gets more bland, almost as quickly as the news cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dude i dont know what your talking about but subaru sales are up 2 percent from last year and it sounds like you are trying to agree with me in the most combative way possible... dont forget to take your meds. I didnt say anything about americans are stupid or whatever but I did state a well documented fact that europeans do hold on to their cars longer and are more educated consumers so I guess I am going to have to tell you to go **** yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest heightsgtltd Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 looks like next year my hatch will be for sale Really? You seriously prefer the uglier sedan over the already ugly hatch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp3 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dude i dont know what your talking about but subaru sales are up 2 percent from last year and it sounds like you are trying to agree with me in the most combative way possible... dont forget to take your meds. I didnt say anything about americans are stupid or whatever but I did state a well documented fact that europeans do hold on to their cars longer and are more educated consumers so I guess I am going to have to tell you to go **** yourself. I wonder if the sales increase is becase of loyalty returns or because there's a natural subaru customer who has been buying $35000-55000 sedans/suvs and deciding value matters (and every subaru is a good/great value relative to the competition). I expect that is the latter, which means that a modern subaru dealer is seeing a customer cross-shop Legacys against 40-50k cars, Forresters against 35k-45k SUVs and Tribecas against 50k SUVs. That feedback of seeing what is keeping them from closing a sale is important. Even a 2 month sales person may have authority because he has his 2 months and the feedback of a dozen other salesmen on the brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 If they make an STI Sedan soon... i'd be sorely tempted to trade in on a sedan 2011 STI Sedan is coming. I got that info from an SNE Rep who went to that big meeting recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest heightsgtltd Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 That was the point of his quote with the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 hatchback/wagons > sedans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 -The problem is that very few educated consumers are in the high performance market. -Most people who arent gear heads (99 percent) want a nice badge on the front of their new car so people will know how much they spent. -In Europe they are far more educated and europeans keep cars way longer than americans. -If Subaru built these legacy sti/forester xti cars they would be dreams for us who know what the hell is going on and a flop to all the dumbasses going out and buying fwd acura tl-s's. Those sound like personal values judgments to me, Jordan. And maybe europeans keep cars longer because they drive them less, and therefore wear them out less, and are in more centrally urban areas. The US is not Europe, and drawing value judgments without context, to make US customers look stupid is getting irksome. And If you can make those judgements, I can disagree with them, and don't need your insults or cursing. I don't hold customers in contempt, as you seem to. Why should I ever buy a car from someone who does? And I also don't blame customers for buying what is made available, when car companies put out lame crap, and Subaru's direction is not AWAY from lame crap with this new Legacy, and that says something about Subaru's decision making. What to you think that portends for the next revision of WRX and STI? Subaru has already made them needlessly ugly, but that is not news. Car companies are going BANKRUPT, and dealerships are getting their franchise agreements cancelled. People like you are losing JOBS, because companies can't figure out how to build good products, or are being prohibited from it from greedy union labor, and onerous government regulation that favors light trucks over cars. Forester and Outback, as well as Tribeca, are classified as light trucks under CAFE, last I heard. No wonder they have been emphasized for a decade or more, along with that trend across the automotive industry. That isn't the fault of consumers, enthusiast or otherwise, even if they have purchased merely what has been made available to them, and looking for a good deal, because money doesn't grow on trees. Something some folks, like the US Government doesn't seem to get. Hence they pass things like TARP, Auto bail outs, and even cash-for-clunkers, now. So perhaps next time, you can realize you aren't speaking to someone you like to pass judgements on, and you can hold your cursing, and keep this forum a bit more civil. Or you could be more civil regardless of who I am or am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjay1089 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Americans are definitely more brand-conscious than Europeans. A lot of marketing researchers will tell you. But holy hi-jack.. I havent heard much about proposed STi changes. I'm starting to like the STI styling. The flared fenders and that nice exhaust and diffuser set up in the back look pretty good. The WRX still looks silly though. I dont like the interior designs. The center console has a weird look that doesn't flow at all. Reminds me of the cheap-looking set up in cars like the Dodge Charger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest heightsgtltd Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Europeans can be equally brand conscious, but the extension of the brand from lower price to higher price is what's different.. You can buy BMW 3 series or even 7 series with low power engines for a lot less money, that doesn't fly here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dude your getting way to into this the fact remains regardless of your superceeding experience that nobody is going to buy those cars if they are made. I sell cars in a area that you can barely go a day without seeing an m3/m5/m6/continentalgt/astonmartin everyday multiple times. I am telling you right now that NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY A FORESTER XTI people who buy subarus get outbacks and foresters Im glad you think your so smart but my observations are aided by my colleges who have been selling these things for over a decade each who tend to agree so continue thinking you know everything and while your complaining I will be selling brand new legacy and outbacks which by the way EVERYBODY LOVES. These cars arent for us they are for the vast majority and like I said before a car with more room than its compitition and 31mpg with awd is going to explode and we the performance minded will have to settle for sti's in the future. Dont get me wrong I would be just as happy to see a legacy sti/ forester xti as you but I just dont see it happening. I dont even see a spec b. happening. When I started selling Subarus I wanted to be selling lgt's and sti's. I would ask my collegeus about spec.b's and they would laugh in my face. In fact in my now 3 1/2 months selling subarus we havent had one spec b. on the lot. People who come to subaru for performance get wrx's and Sti's period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dude your getting way to into this the fact remains regardless of your superceeding experience that nobody is going to buy those cars if they are made. I sell cars in a area that you can barely go a day without seeing an m3/m5/m6/continentalgt/astonmartin everyday multiple times. I am telling you right now that NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY A FORESTER XTI people who buy subarus get outbacks and foresters Im glad you think your so smart but my observations are aided by my colleges who have been selling these things for over a decade each who tend to agree so continue thinking you know everything and while your complaining I will be selling brand new legacy and outbacks which by the way EVERYBODY LOVES. These cars arent for us they are for the vast majority and like I said before a car with more room than its compitition and 31mpg with awd is going to explode and we the performance minded will have to settle for sti's in the future. Dont get me wrong I would be just as happy to see a legacy sti/ forester xti as you but I just dont see it happening. I dont even see a spec b. happening. When I started selling Subarus I wanted to be selling lgt's and sti's. I would ask my collegeus about spec.b's and they would laugh in my face. In fact in my now 3 1/2 months selling subarus we havent had one spec b. on the lot. People who come to subaru for performance get wrx's and Sti's period. grammar > you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 grammar > you college does not equal colleague He does make some very valid points. Although others like to poke holes in what people post, we should acknowledge that he works at a Subaru dealership and is far closer to what we hypothesize about. Even if somebody worked at a Subaru dealership for only a month, it's a month more than almost everybody else on the forum who theorizes about what this guy sees everyday. We should be grateful for his contribution. On a side note, I bet the new Sti sedan will look a lot like the wide body kit WRX sedan that was at SEMA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Dude your getting way to into this the fact remains regardless of your superceeding experience that nobody is going to buy those cars if they are made. I sell cars in a area that you can barely go a day without seeing an m3/m5/m6/continentalgt/astonmartin everyday multiple times. I am telling you right now that NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY A FORESTER XTI people who buy subarus get outbacks and foresters Im glad you think your so smart but my observations are aided by my colleges who have been selling these things for over a decade each who tend to agree so continue thinking you know everything and while your complaining I will be selling brand new legacy and outbacks which by the way EVERYBODY LOVES. These cars arent for us they are for the vast majority and like I said before a car with more room than its compitition and 31mpg with awd is going to explode and we the performance minded will have to settle for sti's in the future. Dont get me wrong I would be just as happy to see a legacy sti/ forester xti as you but I just dont see it happening. I dont even see a spec b. happening. When I started selling Subarus I wanted to be selling lgt's and sti's. I would ask my collegeus about spec.b's and they would laugh in my face. In fact in my now 3 1/2 months selling subarus we havent had one spec b. on the lot. People who come to subaru for performance get wrx's and Sti's period. I hope you weren't listening to the same people with the decade of experience, that lead SOA into believing the Tribeca was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Good grief. Use the return key ever before? Dude your getting way to into this the fact remains regardless of your superceeding experience that nobody is going to buy those cars if they are made. I sell cars in a area that you can barely go a day without seeing an m3/m5/m6/continentalgt/astonmartin everyday multiple times. I am telling you right now that NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY A FORESTER XTI people who buy subarus get outbacks and foresters Well, not every place in the US has that sort of money. I live in a place where I have NEVER seen a Bentley or Aston Martin out in the "wild". I live in a place where people have to live within their means, and their means aren't that extravagant for the most part. Where that is the case, and where it snows in the winter, a pragmatic, yet FUN car, that serves it's versatile purpose, might sell. Subaru is not in the business to compete with Bentley, or Aston Martin. Im glad you think your so smart but my observations are aided by my colleges who have been selling these things for over a decade each who tend to agree. so continue thinking you know everything and while your complaining I will be selling brand new legacy and outbacks which by the way EVERYBODY LOVES. Maybe you don't speak to people who don't like the new Legacy or Outback. Maybe they don't feel like telling you your product sucks to your face. Maybe they are more polite than that, or don't feel the need to speak to a salesman about that fact. Maybe some people, not me, learned from their parents that if you have nothing positive to say, then don't say anything. I am sure there are salesmen who have worked for a long time, and have put positive spin on the schlock coming out of the industry, from MANY brands, even when the products were downright POOR. People have been selling GMs and Chryslers, and problematic VWs, and early Hyundais and Kias before they were good cars... and all of them probably got good spin. These cars arent for us they are for the vast majority and like I said before a car with more room than its compitition and 31mpg with awd is going to explode and we the performance minded will have to settle for sti's in the future. Telling your customers to "settle" for something is telling your customers to "piss off." ESPECIALLY an enthusiast. Dont get me wrong I would be just as happy to see a legacy sti/ forester xti as you but I just dont see it happening. I dont even see a spec b. happening. Considering the state of the 2010 Legacy GT, I will be surprised if it lasts long. That is Subaru's CHOICE. And a choice that will cost them my future sale. How can you measure how many others will also pass Subaru dealers by? When I started selling Subarus I wanted to be selling lgt's and sti's. I would ask my collegues about spec.b's and they would laugh in my face. In fact in my now 3 1/2 months selling subarus we havent had one spec b. on the lot. People who come to subaru for performance get wrx's and Sti's period. Maybe that is the case, because SUBARU has made that bed. They didn't advertise the Legacy as a performance car. Or advertise it at all. The Spec B was denied STI grades of equipment, and even a color choice. How do you sell a car without even a color choice? If SUBARU wanted to build a better Sports Sedan, they had the opportunity, and chose to go the other direction. You cannot blame customers for the product not being in front of them, or even really made at all. They probably sold every last one of the S402s in Japan. They had special editions every year, from WR Limited, to Tuned by STI, to Blitzen. Japan is not the US either, but FHI decided that they actually wanted to TRY to sell the car that way. They don't even TRY here, so customers can't buy a fictional car. Customers have a hard time buying a car that they don't know about that IS on the lot, like 05-09 Legacy. Nobody recognizes my car. That is POOR market awareness. Again, not a customer's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 If you go to Japan you will see more legacies than you thought existed. The legacy was marketed poorly here however its balance between sportiness and functionality were on a fine line that most didnt want to cross. A Subaru customer is by nature a well educated consumer who sees the value in the product and is not easily swayed by what the masses do, how many people around you are like that? Exactley Subaru wants to sell cars and what the 2010 legacy will do is sell. By the way have you seen/driven a 2010 legacy because that would be sad for you to make such negative comments about the thing without even laying eyes on it. And no I dont breath down customers throats to love the legacy and outback they come up to me and tell me, and ask WHEN WHEN WHEN can I see all the colors and options and test drive a gt/3.6 you need to step out of your box and understand that you just dont know it all buddy ok you probly have never even driven the damn thing and all your doing is spitting out unfounded arguments for you the older legacy was practical as it was for me and the others on this site and im sorry that you dont understand the the vast majority of consumers dont agree with us but thats the way it is and I was suggesting that WE the people who saw the value in our cars would have to settle for a sti which is not to much of a freaking comprimise buddy. Oh and by the way i donut kare aboutt hoah i spel on the INTURNET because im not getting graded hurr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 If you go to Japan you will see more legacies than you thought existed. The legacy was marketed poorly here however its balance between sportiness and functionality were on a fine line that most didnt want to cross. A Subaru customer is by nature a well educated consumer who sees the value in the product and is not easily swayed by what the masses do, how many people around you are like that? Exactley Subaru wants to sell cars and what the 2010 legacy will do is sell. By the way have you seen/driven a 2010 legacy because that would be sad for you to make such negative comments about the thing without even laying eyes on it. And no I dont breath down customers throats to love the legacy and outback they come up to me and tell me, and ask WHEN WHEN WHEN can I see all the colors and options and test drive a gt/3.6 you need to step out of your box and understand that you just dont know it all buddy ok you probly have never even driven the damn thing and all your doing is spitting out unfounded arguments for you the older legacy was practical as it was for me and the others on this site and im sorry that you dont understand the the vast majority of consumers dont agree with us but thats the way it is and I was suggesting that WE the people who saw the value in our cars would have to settle for a sti which is not to much of a freaking comprimise buddy. Oh and by the way i donut kare aboutt hoah i spel on the INTURNET because im not getting graded hurr. Really? If that were the truth we would see people actually researching Legacy on the internet more. Instead, internet interest in Legacy is near an all time low, even though it has been referenced more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Really? You seriously prefer the uglier sedan over the already ugly hatch? I seriously hate the tail lights on the sedan. 2011 model year should be just in time for a refresh. I will live with them for flared sedan and big wing. By next year, I may have a new STI and a 2010 LGT in the garage. I'm hoping and praying that the misses doesn't decide to go automatic. I have a feeling the 3.6 Legacy is going to have enough pull to satisfy her, I just don't want to drive a damn auto! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutru01 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Dude your getting way to into this the fact remains regardless of your superceeding experience that nobody is going to buy those cars if they are made. I sell cars in a area that you can barely go a day without seeing an m3/m5/m6/continentalgt/astonmartin everyday multiple times. I am telling you right now that NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY A FORESTER XTI people who buy subarus get outbacks and foresters Im glad you think your so smart but my observations are aided by my colleges who have been selling these things for over a decade each who tend to agree so continue thinking you know everything and while your complaining I will be selling brand new legacy and outbacks which by the way EVERYBODY LOVES. These cars arent for us they are for the vast majority and like I said before a car with more room than its compitition and 31mpg with awd is going to explode and we the performance minded will have to settle for sti's in the future. Dont get me wrong I would be just as happy to see a legacy sti/ forester xti as you but I just dont see it happening. I dont even see a spec b. happening. When I started selling Subarus I wanted to be selling lgt's and sti's. I would ask my collegeus about spec.b's and they would laugh in my face. In fact in my now 3 1/2 months selling subarus we havent had one spec b. on the lot. People who come to subaru for performance get wrx's and Sti's period. Your assumption is wrong. First of all, you live in McLean VA. I lived in the Fairfax/DC area for 5 years (2003-2008). The market up there is much different than in other areas. People in the DC area in general might not be be all that interested in Forester XTI simply because its not practical in a area full of traffic and pretentious assholes. In more rural areas and even OTHER cities, you have those who like Foresters a lot, myself being one of them. There is life outside of the DC metropolitan area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutru01 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 As for this 2010 WRX Sti, can we find some credible information and quit posting erroneous pictures and hearsay/rumors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I doubt it. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I have a feeling the 3.6 Legacy is going to have enough pull to satisfy her, I just don't want to drive a damn auto! Teach her to drive stick fast! My ploy to get the misses into stick cars...she wants a convertible and i require her to have AWD. Used Audi TT only came in stick, and its a perfect car for what she needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportwagon Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 I doubt it. PLEASE, No more banter about subaru in north america vs. europe, run on sentences, mentions of the govenrment, poor grammar, poking holes in each others posts, or posts with way too much text... BOT Please! From now on ONLY post pictures of and discuss the new STi and talk about the differences in sedans vs. hatchs or the new and existing features (specifically related to the 2010+ Impreza WRX STi)... I don't even want to see or hear about the 2010 LGT, unless you have a pictue of it humping a 2010 STi... Oh yeah, and no more re-post pictures of that STi concept! Just the USDM '10 Impreza WRX STi in this thread! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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