rubberman Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Just got my PnP & ceramic coated exhaust manifolds from Grimmspeed. I also picked up one of their high flow crossover pipes (piece looked good with great welds), just finished wrapping it in Thermotec copper wrap and sprayed with copper spray (still drying). I really like the way that these manifolds look, everything is really smooth on the interiors. Some have mentioned that they were going with Crucial Racing for their PnP because they polish the entire interior, but I can tell you that these Grimmspeed pieces are fine. Here's a few pictures of the interior of each piece, they are very smooth with very little surface roughness. I plan to install these in a few days, will add some more pictures then. Next piece to send them is a used VF40 turbo for the same treatment... Update: See Post # 39 (page 3) for installed pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frkkevin Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I'll agree.. I run the same manifolds .. if your looking for a used VF40 I have one to spare 512whp/465ftlb 2005 5EAT Legacy (Build Log) Videos - - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Love mine, and I also have their newest flex UP too. It's amazing just how small the stock EM openings are relative to the actual ports coming out of the heads. BTW - link to the wrap and spray that you mentioned? - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Here's the links to what I used, got it from 5-starperformance / Jeremy (best price without even asking for price match): Thermotec Copper Wrap http://www.5-starperformance.com/servlet/the-758/Thermotec-Exhaust-Insulating-Wrap/Detail Thermotec High Temp Coating http://www.5-starperformance.com/servlet/the-760/Thermotec-High-dsh-Temp-exhaust-Coating/Detail I picked up a few stainless clamps from Home Depot vs getting the more expensive Thermotec snap straps. The snap straps work well for tight clearances, but I won't have any issues with that. I went the cheaper route for now until these clamps prove they won't work for some reason. I'll add pictures tonight of the COP. So far it looks pretty blingy with the bright copper spray on the wrap. Is it weird that I think a ceramic coated part is sexy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hey Rubberman, Not sure what your current setup is, but I'd love to hear your impressions after the install of these.....I've wanted to do it for awhile, as I want to go the route of near-instantaneous response. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hey Rubberman, Not sure what your current setup is, but I'd love to hear your impressions after the install of these.....I've wanted to do it for awhile, as I want to go the route of near-instantaneous response. Joe I'm right with you Joe. For now, I would like to have a very streetable setup with quick spool. I already have a used VF40 in hand that I plan to send to Grimmspeed in the next few weeks for their PnP & coating treament, once again to get that little bit of extra spool & control heat. Here's what I currently have on the car: AP Stage 2 Crucial Racing coated UP Invidia HFC DP Perrin Mid/Y w/ stock mufflers Cobb Intake w/ air box (for now, might swap back to stock intake until I get a bigger turbo later on) Perrin crank pulley IPT VB Perrin TMIC TruCool 4454 Trans cooler Longer term my weak link is the auto trans if I want to put down serious power, so I would need a full IPT trans build to support that (all of that is probably years away). So for now, I started down the road of trying to fully optimize the stock turbo & exhaust setup while keeping things cool (ceramic coatings) & quiet (very little noise). Once I get the turbo back from Grimmspeed I plan to install it, Thermotec wrap/spray the DP, and then get the car dyno tuned at TopSpeed in Atlanta, GA. That's my last planned power mod for a while and hopefully these smaller tweaks to the engine/components will make some nice streetable improvements & aid in reducing some radiant engine heat due to the turbo/exhaust. Grimmspeed install planned for Wed evening, stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atc5 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I'm right with you Joe. For now, I would like to have a very streetable setup with quick spool. I already have a used VF40 in hand that I plan to send to Grimmspeed in the next few weeks for their PnP & coating treament, once again to get that little bit of extra spool & control heat. While I don't have first hand experience with this, why not spend a couple of extra bucks and send it to Blouch for 18G wheel upgrade? Then buy a turbo blanket and you're all set for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 While I don't have first hand experience with this, why not spend a couple of extra bucks and send it to Blouch for 18G wheel upgrade? Then buy a turbo blanket and you're all set for awhile. Good suggestion, here's my reasons: 1. I am wary of putting too much power on the stock trans and I didn't want to worry with changing injectors or FP. 2. I've read about the VF40 18G mod some on here, but I am not overly familiar with it. My understanding is the 18G mod would put me on the edge fuel wise without mods? If that is indeed true, I would prefer to not run close to max IDC with stock fuel components. PnP & coat turbo is ~$230 w/ shipping. Additional turbo 18G mod costs (guessing ~$500-600+) are much greater, but w/ more potential. If I go to another turbo I want to go 20G or something similar years(?) from now and that's major money (FMIC, fuel mods, built trans, etc are already in the plan when ready for that). I considered the turbo blanket route, but I like the idea of cleaning up the stock turbo & getting it ceramic coated. It's more money, but I like the overall solution better. I can only wrap so much of the turbo and I definitely like the idea of reducing radiant heat as much as possible. I welcome your thoughts / recommendations on the 18G? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atc5 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I hear you as I have an 5EAT too (obviously ) I just don't think it's worth it to spend the $230 on coating. In fact, I would suggest you spend those funds on a fuel pump and injectors (walbro + used DW injectors) would put you at about $350. I did look into having Blouch do an 18G conversion, then the VF52 came out. That said, even with an 18G conversion, you're likely better of doing a VF52, selling your VF40, and calling it a day. While I realize your 'short term' goals for better spool, etc...I just do not think the VF40 is worth investing in as the gains would likely be quite marginal from the PNP and coating. That said, I'm all for optimization and if you end up seeing great results, then sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Is heat-coating the turbo a good idea? I feel like maintaining it's heat is not a good goal, given that it's oil-lubricated and most oils are already pretty taxed... I don't know enough about this, just raising the possibility. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 atc5, you might be right about the overall value in putting money in the stock VF40, but I figured if I was going to be at this level for a while I might as well make the most of it. I'm also curious how the porting & coating will affect this little turbo, probably not much, but call it curiosity or simply experimentation. The VF52 does have me seriously interested in seeing how people like them with TMIC & fuel mods. I'd like to see how some 5EATs hold up over time before I jump though (if only IPT built trans weren't ~$6k installed). (Also, that IPT VB is still holding up fine.) I saw your VF52 FS, damn temptation around every corner on here... Joe, I've searched/read some material about coating turbos and the concerns related to heat retention. Most posts ended in no real evidence that it did shorten the life of the turbo (at least I didn't find any factual evidence). If you find any info, I'd be interested. I can also look at the high end turbo offerings by Deadbolt and others, generally they seem to offer ceramic coating on most more expensive units. If it were a significant issue, I don't think that many companies would offer the option. That said, if it does have an impact on a VF40, well, I'm prepared to live with that. AFAIK, some VF40's die after 50k miles or less without any coating or reason so I'm not sure that a coating would really impact it that much if they are prone to an early death anyway. (lol) This thread has gone all over the place, but good questions and discussion are always ok in my book. Thanks for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Some turbos will operate better with less lubrication than others I imagine. Materials and build setup is my guess. Definitely share with us your feedback of the VF-40 with PnP exhaust mani, as your mods are not dissimilar to the direction I'd like to go. FYI - I thought the 5EAT with trans cooler was pretty solid up to well over 300+whp? Shouldn't you put a trans cooler on now to be on the safe side, since you are obviously worried about it and it will only extend the life of your trans the earlier you put it on? I'm curious about the VF 40 because I think it's knocked for it's lack of top-end, but it seems to be a pretty good all around turbo for a daily driver application. Maybe I'm wrong. VF-52 seems like a better turbo for an everday driver, bwahahah.. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 You are probably right about the turbos and build quality, much what I was thinking. Start with a good mfg unit and it's probably not an issue. Forgot about that part, I added the entry up above for my trans cooler, already installed when I went stage 1 almost a year ago. They are supposed to add some headroom on the trans, I'm just treading carefully and watching the failure rate as time passes to make a better judgment for maybe a VF52 as intermediate step. A VF52 & fuel mods with my current trans mods seems entirely reasonable, just more $$ as always and I've got to pause money-wise for a while. I keep reminding myself that if I want acceleration, I've got a sportbike in the garage that is much cheaper...that is until track days start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Interested to hear why you'd wrap/spray your thermally coated bits. I've just left mine uncovered as the thermal coating seems to achieve the needed results. Does the extra wrap/spray induce that much of an external thermal radiation drop/internal heat retention? - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTkansan Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Id love to see a before and after set of number if you get them. I have yet to see the results from anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Interested to hear why you'd wrap/spray your thermally coated bits. I've just left mine uncovered as the thermal coating seems to achieve the needed results. Does the extra wrap/spray induce that much of an external thermal radiation drop/internal heat retention? I read over on nasioc that some people starting hearing a pronounced tick sound after swapping the stock crossover pipe with a high flow unit like the Grimmspeed, solution was to wrap the pipe. Here's an example: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1425979&highlight=crossover+pipe+tick When I ordered everything, I spoke with Rich at Grimmspeed and he confirmed that you can hear the ticking sound more after the swap and that exhaust wrap would pretty much resolve it. So, I picked up the exhaust wrap more for sound, but if it helps a little with whatever slight radiant heat is coming off then that's ok as well. The spray was used to protect the wrap from oil, fluid spills etc since Thermotec recommends it. I probably won't have before/after turbo coating dyno results because of the cost and difficulty of driving 2 hours each way to the dyno facility. I'll just have to read what I can out of the results based on spool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Rubberman - What trans fluid are you running with that trans cooler? I'm not an expert in these areas, but I think the killer of trans is when the power/usage overwhelms the trans fluid ability to absorb the pressure/heat the transmission puts on it. Hence the need for a trans cooler. I would imagine a high quality synthetic fluid would, again, extend the life of your trans. Random thought: Has anyone ever built heat-sinks which you could actually physically attach to the transmission housing? I don't know how much heat could actually be dissipated through this, but I wonder if it would help add to the overall cooling of the transmission. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atc5 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I read over on nasioc that some people starting hearing a pronounced tick sound after swapping the stock crossover pipe with a high flow unit like the Grimmspeed, solution was to wrap the pipe. . I can confirm this. The ticking drove me nuts a bit w/ the Grimmspeed crossover pipe on my car. I hope the wrap helps reduce and/or eliminate the sound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 subscribe I'm in the same boat as Joe and rubberman, trying to get smooth early power and probably keeping the stock catback, or at least the cans to keep noise level down. I've been shopping around used this winter and got a Cobb catted DP ($425 shipped), and recently the Grimmspeed P&P manifold w/Crossover pipe and a Grimmspeed UP (all coated black) for $300 shipped (!!). Also have a perrin crank pulley that I've had sitting for 4 years. Currently stage 1 , but sometime in the spring I will get everything installed and get a tune. I've got the Cobb turbo heat shield, both DP gaskets, just need more gaskets for UP/COP/EM, a transmission cooler, and $$$ for a tune. I plan to wrap my COP before installing because I've read about the ticking issues mentioned. Also with the proximity to the oil filter and radiator, even with coating it will still put off extra heat near those areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Absolutely no ticking sound yet from mine. What would cause this? - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Rubberman - What trans fluid are you running with that trans cooler? I'm not an expert in these areas, but I think the killer of trans is when the power/usage overwhelms the trans fluid ability to absorb the pressure/heat the transmission puts on it. Hence the need for a trans cooler. I would imagine a high quality synthetic fluid would, again, extend the life of your trans. Joe You may very well be right about trans temps being the ultimate culprit. I've done some reading, but I'd like to do more about auto trans functionality. One engineering co-op job that I had back in school was working with a heavy equipment powershift trans expert & gear design/mfg guru. Now I kick myself for not bugging the isht out of both those guys about the functions and componentry. Torque delivery was a big deal for transmissions and something that he designed custom torque curves for each application optimized for trans duty cycle, loads, etc. I sure wish we had somebody at JATCO to pummel with questions, I'd love to explore the trans controller functions and understand more about the trans components/gears themselves. Currently I'm running Subaru 5EAT fluid (already swapped twice in 54k miles for safety). After talking to a tech at the dealer and him looking up some paperwork, it indicated that the Subaru 5EAT fluid is a synthetic fluid. I'm a bit leary of other synthetics in the trans based on their fluid properties in comparison to the Subaru J-type trans fluids; diffs on the other hand currently have Redline synthetics already. Mixing different fluids and/or additives with wet clutches/plates can have very different results. I've seen a few reports & images on bobistheoilguy.com of what some additives do to trans/gear lubricants and it is NOT pretty. Some probably work, but how to definitively tell and achieve a proper balance for our specific trans is a big question in my mind. Several folks here are using Amsoil & BG (sp?)additive which seems to work well, but I haven't seen any fluid analysis reports yet to prove/disprove anything. I would prefer a good synthetic for the flow & temp advantages, but if the stock fluid is synthetic and has the recommended additives for a JATCO trans, I'll just keep using that with regular drain/refills until I find some factual info otherwise. A trans heat sink could help, but then it's a measure of surface area and air flow rate over the trans housing. Now if the whole trans housing had a finned surface, then we might be talking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 That's what I'm saying: Some sort of finned surface with an adhesive back that would transfer heat well into the attachable heat sink. Maybe maybe it small so that it could easily attach to the various surfaces of the trans. And then maybe make a skidplate to cover them but direct under-car up over the trans specifically. Regarding fluid: Sounds like you've got a plan. From what I understand, most auto trans will hold up as long as: they are able to lock-up quickly and they have good fluiid in them. Keep changing it out more often than needed and you'll have the second covered at least. Joe P.s. Odd question, but why aren't trans surfaces finned? It's not like the engine/exhaust manifold where you want the heat to help the exhaust flow quickly out. Heat kills trannies. Maybe I'll go make some Joe's-Custom-Trans-Finnifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/arcinternational/imgs/4/3/43596425.JPG http://www.arcinter.co.jp/english/arc/products/other/coolfin/00.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 bastards beat me too it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow05gtRI Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 subscribe I'm in the same boat as Joe and rubberman, trying to get smooth early power and probably keeping the stock catback, or at least the cans to keep noise level down. I've been shopping around used this winter and got a Cobb catted DP ($425 shipped), and recently the Grimmspeed P&P manifold w/Crossover pipe and a Grimmspeed UP (all coated black) for $300 shipped (!!). Also have a perrin crank pulley that I've had sitting for 4 years. Currently stage 1 , but sometime in the spring I will get everything installed and get a tune. I've got the Cobb turbo heat shield, both DP gaskets, just need more gaskets for UP/COP/EM, a transmission cooler, and $$$ for a tune. I plan to wrap my COP before installing because I've read about the ticking issues mentioned. Also with the proximity to the oil filter and radiator, even with coating it will still put off extra heat near those areas. where did you find the Manifolds, Crossover, and UP all for $300? I've been looking to buy this package for awhile and might pull the trigger if that's the price you're finding.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.