agold Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Garmin GVN-52 is old, discontinued model, GVN-53 is a new one. If you look at the back side of device, you will see: Kenwood KNA-G510 and garmin part-number: 010-00495-xx (GVN52) 010-00668-xx (GVN53) As I remember, GVN-53 have a new SirfIII GPS chip inside. If you order a new Kenwood KNA, you will get this one: 010-00668-xx (GVN53) Anyway, both old and new ones have the same problems when connecting to subaru oem monitor. You can't use GVN52(53) firmware in the KNA. And, don't forget: all of G510(usa)/520,420,421(europe) and etc. have a list of supported kenwood monitors. http://www.kenwood.eu/support/monitors_navigation/ Our OEM monitor is not in the list. Unfortunately, I'm sure, that no one in kenwood/garmin will not try to make some researching to correct their firmware for us (there are no so much suba's owners). But anyway, good luck :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Hey agold, Anyword if we can get more of those adapters made and sent over to North America? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 delivery...I found that the cheapest way is by EMS Garantpost. 100g-500g =>1670 rbl (~$70), 500g-1kg =>1950 rbl (~82) prices above is for sending from Moscow to NY so, it will not expensive to send some adapters in one package Anyway, I need a approximately adapters qnt to ask a guy for a final price for that. sorry, in russian language only (USA is a 3rd tariff zone): http://www.emspost.ru/tariffs_and_terms/international_tariffs/tariff_zones_of_the_international_net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Well I would definately be interested in one of these if we don't get a good response from Garmin. I would also be willing to serve a the forwarding point in the US if you want to ship them in bulk. I am in the Seattle area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Well, I got the following responses from Garmin: Dear Jason XXXXX, Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I have forwarded your request to the appropriate departments for review. The highest complement a customer can give our company is to offer suggestions for improvement of our products. We appreciate your comments and opinions! We send e-mails with suggestions to the design team, as they are always interested in customer feedback. We also pass all suggestions on to our engineers for consideration. While we cannot promise that Garmin will use your suggestion, in one way or another we use about 80% of the suggestions we receive. They are a big part of our product improvement program. Again, thank you for your effort on behalf of our products. We very much appreciate your help and concern. With Best Regards, Ryan C Product Support Specialist Automotive Team Garmin International 913-397-8200 800-800-1020 913-397-8282 (fax) Att: Ryan C http://www.garmin.com and Dear Jason XXXX, Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I will be happy to assist you with this. Unfortunately, the "Mute On" setting is not supported by your Garmin device. The KNA-G510 was designed through Kenwood specifications. I have forwarded your email to the design team as they are always interested on customer feedback. Many of the comments/suggestions we receive (such as yours) are often evaluated towards potential implementation into future Garmin products or current unit software releases. We cannot guarantee that what you have suggested will occur, however we do appreciate you passing along your opinions. With Best Regards, Maria S Product Support Specialist Automotive Team Garmin International 913-397-8200 800-800-1020 913-397-8282 (fax) Att: Maria S www.garmin.com Basically, we will take it under advisement. I sent a reply asking them to let me know if they make any headway but it is doubtful they will be able to. It seems that Kenwood basically gave them an interface to work with and this change might violate that interface. We shall see though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 It's nice to see that Garmin actually reads your messages. Rather then looking for keywords to punt off the issue to another company. Maybe, Kenwood will take the request more seriously, if Garmin forwards the issue to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I rule!!!!! I have just figured out how the nav unit sends the voice guidance to the radio! You can see in the attached picture the pin we are interested in. If we feed a any voltage to this pin (I used a AA battery) it will mute the audio. Also, when you monitor this pin when the nav speaks it shows a variable ~4V signal indicating this is the actual sound signal coming through. This means that all one needs to do is feed the audio signal from the KNA-G510 to this pin and we should have a fully functional system!! I am supposed to receive my KNA unit on Monday and I will give it a shot. After looking through the service manual for the FGZ unit (the screen) I figured out how it handles the audio input from the nav brain. It watches the serial comms from the brain and when it is told the brain wants to speak it basically unblocks the feed from the brain through Q17 (pg 2 in the manual). This allows the signal to continue through to the pin on that connector and out to the radio. When the radio sees this audio coming in it activates the front speaker mute and puts the incoming audio though to the fronts. Man I hope this works!! The one concern I have is that if the KNA unit outputs too much voltage when not speaking it may trigger the mute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I rule!!!!! I have just figured out how the nav unit sends the voice guidance to the radio! You can see in the attached picture the pin we are interested in. If we feed a any voltage to this pin (I used a AA battery) it will mute the audio. Also, when you monitor this pin when the nav speaks it shows a variable ~4V signal indicating this is the actual sound signal coming through. This means that all one needs to do is feed the audio signal from the KNA-G510 to this pin and we should have a fully functional system!! This is a total mute pin and you a right, if you put there some voltage all audio will be mute. But it doesn't help us with navi voice, I tested it already. Without right commmand (i.e. "navi voice begin") in the serial comm, you didn't get voice in the speaker. After looking through the service manual for the FGZ unit (the screen) I figured out how it handles the audio input from the nav brain. It watches the serial comms from the brain and when it is told the brain wants to speak it basically unblocks the feed from the brain through Q17 (pg 2 in the manual). This allows the signal to continue through to the pin on that connector and out to the radio. When the radio sees this audio coming in it activates the front speaker mute and puts the incoming audio though to the fronts. Man I hope this works!! The one concern I have is that if the KNA unit outputs too much voltage when not speaking it may trigger the mute. Correct about serial communications. But this is not correct: "When the radio sees this audio coming ..." When the radio get command in serial communication "begin navi voice" it mute front speakers and after "end navi voice" unmute it. So, everything is done via serial communication (i.e. TX/RX pins) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Nope, I am willing to bet that if I feed audio to this pin it will mute the stereo and feed it through to the fronts. The reason I believe this is that when I monitored the voltage on this pin I noted it was a variable voltage around 4 volts. This indicates that it is not just a "Mute-On" signal but is also the audio itself. In looking at the audio schematic attached it shows the selector taking in the nav mono input and the fronts input. I bet that this selector watches for a threshhold voltage to come in on the audio feed from the nav and then selects that feed for the fronts. If you look at the second attachment you can see the aduio coming in from the nav brain. It is then passed through an isolation amp and mixed into a mono signal. It then passes through a mute switch (Q17) ad then out on J803 which is the connector I referenced earlier. This is what is sent out on that pin. I don't have an easy way to put audio into this pin right now or I would confirm this theory. I plan to do the install on Tuesday and we will know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Well, I tried tieing in several audio sources but did not have any luck. One thing I have figured out though is that the audio is definately passing through J803. If I unplug this connector I get no voice guidence even if I put voltage to the red wire, I do get front mute when I put voltage on this wire but I do not get audio. This tells me that the voice over audio must go through this connector. I think the trick here is to figure out what format the audio is in. As I said, when I monitor the red wire while the nav is speaking I get ~4.7 volts. This is much higher than what my iPod is putting out on the headphone jack (~0.02 volts). I really do not think that the nav audio is being converted to serial data for transmission to the radio. I do wonder what that isolation amp (IC800) is doing to the audio though. I think it may be stepping up the voltage of the signal but I don't know. I wish I could tap into the audio pins in the 13-pin connector to see what is coming in but I can't do this without unplugging the connector and that make the nav non-functional. I guess I will need to wait until I get the KNA to continue testing. I still think the proper way to fix this is to fix the firmware to correct the communications protocols so it works like stock but if I can figure out this wire and feed it proper signal we can work around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Well, I think I know a little more now. The red wire is indeed only a mute but it is a mute specifically for the nav. The radio head unit needs a 5V signal on this wire to know to switch over to the nav audio feed. Now, the nav audio feed is also in this same connector and is the two wires on the end of this connector (red/blk and red/yel).These are the nav audio and nav gnd wires (not sure which is which yet). So in order to make this work we need to feed a +5V signalto the red wire and the nav audio signal to these two wires. I figured this out by looking at the schematics for the radio had unit in this thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=636485 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Well, I installed the unit and it is working as expected. I tapped into the wires for the right and left channel audio and routed it to the aux in port for now. What this does afford us is that if we would like to use the XM traffic module you can recieve XM radio on this as well. That means we can have XM radio with the artist and title displays on the nav screen. I have figured out that the red wire is the mute signal for the nav voice and presents a +5V signal that mutes the front speakers. I we put the nav voice output onto the other two wires and provide a +5V signal on the red wire when the unit speaks we would have full functionality. Unfourtunately it doesn't look like the G510 outputs a mute signal like the GVN53 does (I checked the pin and I don't get a ground when the nav speaks). It looks like our only options for making this unit 100% functional are a module like agold had made or getting Garmin/Kenwood to update the firmware in either the G510 or our nav screen unit. I would be curious to see the service manual for our nav screen (the ones we have are for the FGZ000 rather than the FGZ203 that ours is). Perhaps there is something in the proper manual. In either case, this is a major improvement over the OEM nav. The user interface for the Garmin is just so much better to use. We lose the dead-reckoning ability of the OEM unit but that is a small price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvr Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Zimm, Any news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I have not heard anything from Garmin/Kenwood on this. I do not think they are going to do anything as the products were never meant to work together (they just happen to be almost 100% compatible). I think our only option is the module like agold had made but I do not know where to source something like this. For now I have been piping the sound through the aux in port for the nav voice. Sorry I don't have better news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanahjoe Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Wow agold's progress on this is impressive. If we could get one of these grey boxes we could reverse engineer it to figure out what kind of protocol translation it is doing. It might something simple in the direction Zimm was going. Sadly my electronics knowledge is limited and would probably not be much help. I'm very interested in getting the GVN53 to work with my OEM screen even if I have to go with the powered speaker route or the Aux input. I do use the Aux input for my Zen Vision:M though. Oh well. Will do this some time down the road. I'd be willing to donate some money to help send the adapter to someone knowledgeable for duplication, or sign up for a group buy. edit: Just noticed that the adapter would be about $100 plus about $70 shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsx95 Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 ive got all the parts to build the IC amp to bump the voltage up, just been reall busy with work. i really do think that the 510 does not have an amp built, so it wont open the IC800 to let the audio in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Hi guys, sorry for delay. Final cost for adapter is $140. I've a few items ready. Postal delivery to USA is $30, but may be will be cheaper (~15) if I could send it like a small packet. I've already sent one, so it will take 2-3 weeks for delivery, may be less, it's depends on a postal service. For other questions, please PM me Regards, Andrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildoutwhitegsr Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Hey guys. I'm new here and understand the basic of what is required for this mod so I did some searching. I think I found the basic's of the adapter and how it works. Link http://www.d-reinhardt.de/reinhardt_eng/pdf/mute_info_eng.pdf Does that sound about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildoutwhitegsr Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I think they may be called mute leads..... A telemute audio loom will both silence the car audio system when a call is received and re-direct the incoming caller's voice through the front speakers of the car. When the call is terminated the sound will return through the car audio system. http://www.avrmobiles.co.uk/images/audioloom.jpg How does it work? The telemute loom, or audio loom as it is also known, is a simple but effective piece of equipment. Every telemute / audio loom is specially designed for each cars year, make & model. There are thousands of various options and we can only select the correct one once we know the year, make and model of your car. The telemute loom / audio loom is a series of wires with plugs at either end; these plugs are different for each year, make and model of your car. In the middle is the main control module, this module is the main part of the loom which controls the whole system. The engineer will install the lead by connecting this to the back of your stereo. This is then connected to the car kits main junction box, and the stereo loom is then fitted to the telemute / audio loom. Once a call comes in on your new car kit then the telemute / audio loom will start to work; firstly it mutes the stereo for you and the call is answered. Your stereo will display 'call' 'mute' or 'phone' depending on what type of stereo you have (some stereo's may display nothing). You can now clearly hear your call through your car stereo speakers. You may notice that the sound comes from the front speakers only; this is exactly how the telemute / audio loom is supposed to work. Once you have finished your call the telemute / audio loom will then release the mute and your music will be restored. Once the loom is installed, all of the above is done in seconds without any delay.http://www.avrmobiles.co.uk/tele_mute_audio_loom.html http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/cat/Mute-Leads.htm?page=1 http://www.blueunplugged.com/c.aspx?c=53891 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanahjoe Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Anyone been able to get any updates on this? Did someone buy the adapter from agold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbspecb Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I have the adapter from agold and have tested it now for about 3 weeks. Everything works like the factory nav did regarding muting the radio and having the TTS voice come over the car speakers. THe adapter has a power and ground wire. and then 2 other wires that are spliced into the harness. THe unit itself is a little box with tons of ic chips in it and a usb port on the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 How much did this cost all said? I would be interested in picking this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I have the adapter from agold and have tested it now for about 3 weeks. Everything works like the factory nav did regarding muting the radio and having the TTS voice come over the car speakers. THe adapter has a power and ground wire. and then 2 other wires that are spliced into the harness. THe unit itself is a little box with tons of ic chips in it and a usb port on the outside. Zoinks!!! Why have you been holding out on us!! That's good news. Have you found anything in North America that is comparable or the same in function? Is this something that is completely custom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbspecb Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 I was curious and did pop it open. It was way way advanced in there with tons of IC circuits, transisters, etc. Agold can give you more info on the adapter and if his friend makes them or knows how to reprogram them to do what we need. Whatever it is, the sucker works and works well!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlipNap Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I hope there is a way to completely mute all of the speakers with this adapter. If all of the speakers are muted, then there's a chance the XM radio function can be used through the Garmin unit. It would be nice to see what's playing on multiple XM stations on the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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