gsx95 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I was planning the same test today, sounds like its goin to be a bust. Either case i want to give it a try anyways. i report findings. i am also plan to measure voltage for stock nav voice and compare to Garming nav unit. i wonder if anyone here has contacts in kenwood, i like toget the wiring diagram for the garmin. i wonder if a member here has the wiring diagram for the oem nav unit under the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsx95 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 So spent some time looking at the stock unit diagram and comparing it against the ddx8017 unit. I think i found a minor difference, between the two specifically how they process audio. Our stock head unit has an audio isolation buffer. Simply said this audio buffer does not think there is a device connected to the stock navigation. the video and touch screen is fine as it passes through other circuits. So we need to fool the audio buffer into thinking the stock nav unit is connected. Again if you compare the wiring diagram of our stock unit against the ddx8017. the DIN pin is almost identical, but there is a difference. On our unit pin two is grounded with pin six, this ground flows into the audio isolation buffer completing the audio nav circuit. This same pin, the number two pin is not used on newer radios like ddx8017. So i guess the kna-g510 is sending current instead of ground, this makes the audio buffer not think there is nav audio. So this is a guess, again i not an electrical engineer. my guess if we ground pin two we should be able to complete the circuit and get the audio working. I like to see the schematics for the kna-g510 unit. Does anyone have access to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsx95 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I had both channels going. gsx95, did you get sound on the left or right channel? (8th or 12th pin?) Or the sound from 510 is on both channels? Tomorrow I will try to check this on my oem navi and on g510 and compare results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I have service manual for the FVZ-201. This navi unit was in my JDM Outback. I uploaded it: http://rapidshare.com/files/101907981/FVZ-201.zip.html And this is for DV3100/3200: http://rapidshare.com/files/101909812/KNA-DV3100_KNA-DV3200.zip.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsx95 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 thanks, just had a quick look, there is a mute signal on power harness. So i am still going to try to ground pin two, but might not do anything for us. We need get our hands on the kna-g510 diagram. I tried in vain to get it here in the U.S, but was told it was available only from Garmin. the Garmin folks asked me to get it from Kenwood. I hope some here has better luck getting the service manual from either Kenwood, or Garmin. I try calling Kenwood support today in U.S. I have service manual for the FVZ-201. This navi unit was in my JDM Outback. I uploaded it: http://rapidshare.com/files/101907981/FVZ-201.zip.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Yes, you are absolutly right about mute signal in the power harness. Can anyone check this signal on factory navi unit with and without speech? It may be "-", "+12", or maybe "~+5" volts. If we understand how it works, we could then emulate it. At the picture NAVI.jpg you will see line 10 and IC957=TC7SET00FU, which is Mute Signal Generation. I'm sure on 99% that the problem is in this mute signal, which is not generated by G510. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 G510 service manual is attached. It only have one page :-(KNA-G510_.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsx95 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 the mute signal is not connected on the dvd unit, neither is the parking sensor but we all know the parking sensor was not connected by subaru :} i can confirm that this true for the tribeca and spec b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 You are right. It's not connected in JDM Outback too. ok, what about pin24 on the attached picture? It's one of two monitor connectors. Could you check signal there? Or this pin is not connected too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Do anyone have possibility to check power level on audio wires (with and without speach) in 13-pin connector? We need to compare this on old oem navi with g510. Between wire 12 (audio-L) and 7 (audio-GND) The better way to do this is oscillograph, but unfortunatly I don't have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Some updates. FGZ – our OEM monitor GX201 – our OEM radio GX510 – navi unit Some theory for begin. For example, we are listening to the radio and we are using oem navi. When we hear navi voice, it sounds like that: front speakers mute and we hear navi voice from them. Rear speakers play radio without interruption. So, OEM radio controls voice and mutes it when receives navi voice. But If we take G510/520 as navi source, we don’t hear voice from navi. I spend last Saturday while tried to understand what 's may be wrong. Harness from FGZ to the GX201 has some pins interesting for us. It’s a navi mono input and a mute. If I send +5v to this mute pin I get total mute, so it’s not the same mute as I wrote above. If I send some sound/voice to the navi mono input, I don’t get mute and I don’t get this sound from the GX201. Both harness (from G510 to FGZ and from FGZ to GX201) have RX/TX wire and devices use this wire to send some commands to each other. GX201 should get some instructions to mute front speakers and pass there navi voice. GX201 could get this instructions only from FGZ. FGZ could get this instructions only from G510. The problem is misunderstanding between G510 and FGZ. Navi unit should send some command data string along with voice to tell FGZ that there is a voice data. Monitor should forward this command to the audio unit. Unfortunately, I don’t know why this happen. For me, I’ll try to do some modifications to GX201. If I put +5v to IC23 pin0, I’ll get front speakers mute and navi voice from there. Any comments? Regards, Andrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Dragoon Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Is it weird having 2 screens? Was looking into this but not sure about having 2 navigation systems in the car... The JDM is not switched to Nav, just the info screens are displayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 The JDM is not switched to Nav, just the info screens are displayed. I think it's because you don't have a navi disk. There are a lot of screens in JDM navi. Every time when you change the screen you hear japan female voice. But you don't have maps other than Japan. Anyway, I think that this is offtopic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbspecb Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 agold interesting. Now we need to make a 5volt mute switch somehow. Basically when the voice comes on from the g510 we need to send a 5volt signal to the oem radio. This can be done with arelay and stepping down the voltage, but how do we trigger the relay initially? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I do not know how to do this. But my friend knows :-) We will try, may be in the next weekend and I'll post there any results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbspecb Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Here is something interesting. While listening to the radio and in the "info" screen of the touch screen, i.e gas mileage, settings, etc. The audio mutes and you can faintly hear the voice through the front speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Yes, you are absolutely right. I checked it now and it works. Looks very funny. Some times ago, when I parked in the destination with rear camera on(which switched on automatically in R position) I got front mute and listened "You reached the destination". I was amaized but can't repeat this situation. So, at this time we have: When the monitor in any mode except navi and navi menu we hear navi sound. And the question is, how to trick monitor to get sound in any mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsx95 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 hi been busy working, but been tracking the thread. Now i am no wiring experts really wished i payed more attention in electronics class, done with disclaimer. guys take a look at the service manual, search for IC800 on page 24. the illustration has the nav pin, audio connections running into an isolation amp (IC800). I think this is the key to getting audio to work, from what i can tell this thing acts like a gate. So no audio passes through this buffer unless something tells it to pass through to the speakers. I have a strong feeling its triggered with voltage, possibly 4.5 volts. The part number for the IC800 is TDA8579T-T, its made by phillips looks like its some sort of isolation amp in between the nav and audio. Check out the following link, to the manufactures description of the part. Maybe you guys can make out how this works. http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/TDA8579_2.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 gsx95, Unfortunately, I think that this doesn't help. First of all, take a look at FGZ service manual for IC800. You will see "Isolation AMP (noise removal of a NAVI audio sound)" Anyway, I tryed to pass navi voice from KNA directly to NAVI-AUDIO pin of J803 (which connected to the radio) with no success. I think, that this is a mistake in the microchip logic of FGZ, because I can get sound while in info-monitor screen and can't get it while in navi screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 some updates. I found this video on youtube [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsPC7qjYaPc]YouTube - Kenwood KNA-G520 in Subaru outback[/ame] As I understood, he is from Czech republic (or may be Slovakia). He told, that he used some aftermarket cable (sounds like Autobenex) to connect his G520 to the subaru screen. And he told also, that he used it because authorized subaru technician said that he must do it, because this is the only way to success integration After that, I wrote a letter to Czech kenwood authorized dealer: (contact information there: http://www.hifistodola.cz/kontakt/index.htm) ========================================== > Hi, > I want to install Kenwood KNA-G520 or KNA-421 in my Subaru Outback 2005 > with factory OEM screen (kenwood FGZ-201) and navigation. Should I buy > some additional cables for it (I read on the forum about Autobenex > cable) > or it's not necessary? and the answer is: >> Hi, >> you need an adapter kit for this installation. It´s easy and relative >> quick. >> The price is 6.990,- CZK (appr. 285 EUR). On stock. >> Sncerelly, >> Jan >> Magic Acustic s.r.o. >> Úvalská 20 >> 100 00, Praha 10 >> tel: 267 311 227 >> fax: 267 343 951 >> GSM: 724 275 155 ====================================== afrer that I asked: > Hi, Jan > thank you for your answer > When I use KNA-520 with it's own cable (connected directly to my OEM > screen), navigation is ok, but voice guidance is not working if monitor is > in the navy mode (but it's works in other modes, i.e. trip computer or tv) > Does this adapter kit solve this problem and I will get voice guidance in > any monitor mode? and the answer is: Hi Andrey, this kit enable touch screen and all functions like with original Kenwood LCD units. So, I think this unit solve your problem. Regards, Jan ======================================================== So, As I understand, this kit make some translations from kenwood language to subaru language. Or may be I wrong :-) Anyway, for me it's too expansive to buy some kit (or black box) where price is the same as my G510. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Did you ask for a part number? Maybe others countries have it for much less? Plues, we might be able to figure out some technical details about this cable and what exaclty it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 I tried. But when I asked about it, he didn't answer :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Got answer: ============================================ Hi Andrey, manufactüred by ourselves, we are clever guys :o) I think you don´t find it on internat, but who knows :o) Best regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Got answer: ============================================ Hi Andrey, manufactüred by ourselves, we are clever guys :o) I think you don´t find it on internat, but who knows :o) Best regards, Jan For 285 euro that cable better be made out of gold and encrusted in diamonds. So, it looks like it is possible to intergrate the OEM screen and the KNA-G520 but we need more info. It looks like no one at Kenwood wants to help us out either:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agold Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I bought KNA on ebay for $300 and don't want to pay bigger price only for some kit. In Russia, Garmin dealers don't want to do anything with KNA but kenwood dealers don't know any technical information about KNA too :-( I think, that we need some guys, who knows about kenwood touch screen protocol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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