My ‘05 OBXT journal

[xt2005bonbon]

Nice work!

[RumblyXT]

"Have good ends, good highs, good lows, no out lights, ready in the back. Here we go!"

[RumblyXT]

46 minutes ago, xt2005bonbon said:

Nice work!

Thank you

[RumblyXT]

Some sad new today unfortunately.. The motor on the Outback is done..

Took the car to 85-90mph on a straight road this afternoon and ended up with a spun rod bearing   The engine has the typical tac tac tac tac noise and started overheating. I shut it off immediately, had to tow it home. 

Car is for sale $1,700 OBO locally if anyone is interested..  Everything else works, I no longer have time to rebuild a motor.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by RumblyXT

[subisubisu]

My condolences.  Just got my shortblock on the stand this evening after waiting a week for tiny parts, I feel you on the engine build.  Best of luck with the sale!

[Infosecdad]

Dang, nice clean outback. Wish I could come pick her up and work on her, but have my daughters wedding coming coming that has consumed any funds (and then some)

[RumblyXT]

Since I already have the USDM motor with all its Cam Gears, sensors, etc.. what do you guys think about this eBay JDM ej20X?

Would I have to tear the dash and remove the dash harness to send it to iwire or it would just be the engine harness? 

I'm trying to think for a possible solution before getting rid of the car.. your comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

https://picclick.com/2003-2006-Subaru-Legacy-Gt-Engine-Jdm-Ej20X-20L-165734326673.html

[Tehnation]

Has anyone actually been successful with the ej20 swap on this forum? I think it would be easier to just use the complete ej20 motor, its harness and ecu rather than trying to frankenstein the two together.

Damn these ej20 motors are cheap.... complete motor with turbo for 1000 bucks? I wonder what I could stick one in? Thats some cheap fun right there! Stick it in a miata or an old vw. 

[KZJonny]

I have no idea, but I wonder what the numbers would look like for compression, flow etc.... for the ej20 short block with B25 heads?

For sure you'd need a full tune afterwards, but that would be eliminate most of the complications regarding the JDM nature of the engine (which I think is mainly the dual AVCS compatibility/electronics etc....)

I bet someone on NastyOc would pay some money for JDM heads and turbo for their rex.. yo.

It does go back into 'building an engine' territory, but might not be so bad?

-pull and clean heads and AVCS cam actuators

-?deck? head + new gaskets?

Since the EJ20 would come with uncontaminated oil cooler etc... this seems like a lot less work that the usual YNANSB work.

Sure wish we could get JDM import engines that cheap where I am at...

Also of note, just watched a "The Skid Factory" episode last evening where they review a 650hp EJ25, that uses EJ20Y heads.... so, that was interesting, and proves the combination works in reverse at least...

[kzr750r1]

I'd be at your door step with a trailer if you were on the left coast. Sorry for your loss GLWTS.

[xt2005bonbon]

Yeah, the body looks great.

[RumblyXT]

 I have been doing my research guys.. the swap is definitely doable. I might actually keep the car and try the ej20x swap myself and I would end up with a 50-60K miles practically new engine, where God willing everything works.

I got in touch with the guys from iwire and the said it is possible, but I would also need a JDM ECU along with the USDM engine wire harness to do a merge so the exhaust camshaft AVCS sensor on the JDM motor can work.

JDM ej20x / ej20y are dual AVCS twin scroll 2.0L turbo vs our USDM single scroll 2.5L single AVCS (Intake only) motors.

 

[RumblyXT]

Guys.. ^^this video is pure gold into knowing what to expect and what's needed to do a proper working swap with these ej20x motors..

Yes, they're cheap and easily accessible, but the downside is getting it to work properly as they should without issues. There are many things that are different on those JDM EJ20X/Y motors: Dual AVCS, the solenoids, the wiring, and even the gaskets/seals.. so yes, swapping it might be easy but at what cost if they eventually won't function correctly..

You might also need a JDM ECU and send your USDM engine wire harness so they can merge it to get the exhaust cam gears/AVCS timing working properly..

Another possible solution I'm not too fond of is retarding/moving the exhaust gears back/counterclockwise 1 tooth.. on that other video I saw, this person did not mention anything about connecting the exhaust camshaft sensors (which I didn't like).

I got a quote from the West Coast on a 2004 2005 2006 EJ20X for $1,099, but shipping in like $450

The iwire merge is another $900 or so.. 

I'm not sure yet how much a JDM ECU goes for.. so provided one doesn't have to buy anything else,  give or take doing this right ourselves with the right tools and no other parts needed, I'd say the swap is around $2,300-$2,500.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by RumblyXT

[Tehnation]

Seems like a lot of work for a used motor, any warranty on that motor? 

A new shortblock is like 2k, plus another 500 i'm guessing for a master gasket set, and oil cooler. 'Probably need to rebuild the head or just have them cleaned, another 500 or 600 for that, maybe a lot less if you just need it cleaned. Probably want some arp head studs to go with that, or you can reuse them I think, some of those bolts and washers are one time use. ... Probably will need a timing belt so maybe tack on another 400 or 500 for misc, which I think is gross overestimate. I would use that for some goodies and miner upgrades, killer b oil pickup and oil baffle, arp head studs etc. 

Thats about it for the meat and potatoes, so thats like what, 3.5k, so 3.5k for new and everything is straightforward and a forum of people that been there and done that  versus 2500 blind in the dark for something used that can send you down the rabbit hole and end costing a lot more money.  I would rather cough up the extra 1k even 1.5k for a new 2.5L short block at that point tbh. 

#ynansb isn't that expensive if you do most of the work yourself, it gets expensive when you have to pay someone to pull the motor and do engine work. 

[RumblyXT]

^^ What you're saying makes sense.. Now we know why those JDM motors go for so cheap, because of all the trouble they present. But, I guess it depends on how you look at it also..

With a cheap JDM motor, you also get pretty new heads and block, turbo, cam gears, cam shafts, seals.. etc then again that's provided you get lucky and get an engine that was properly serviced, which usually the Japs do.

Those motors usually only have about 50-60K miles on them, pretty crazy to think they scrap them in Japan at such an early age when here in the states we're running them down to almost 250-300K miles lol

In my particular case, it comes down to just getting a good cheap motor for the car to get it running properly again. I'm honestly not interested in extra parts or big numbers.. the other option would be to junk the car getting only $500 for it which is why I was thinking about these imported ej20s in the first place. The car is still in pretty good condition even though it has 215K miles altogether. I haven't decided yet, we'll see.

 

[KZJonny]

https://www.flatironstuning.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-ej20x-ej20y-engine
 

Some good info here as well.

I didn’t realize this engine was a 9.5:1 CR for example.

[Tehnation]

you could rebuild the block for a fraction of the cost of a new one. Don't know how handy you are, but if you pull the motor and tear it apart to inspect the crankshaft, if the rod ate through the bearing and hit the crank, then you probably need a new crankshaft, if not, then its not so bad. Get some new piston rings, a new rod, new rod bearings, might as well replace the crankshaft bearings as well. Get a machine shop to hone the cylinder walls if they need it.  Depending on the damage you might be able to spend 1k or less versus 2k on a new sb. 

If you have another car to drive and the space, why not?  If the crank is good, you could get away with maybe spending 500 bucks in parts. I just don't know how much anything oem costs, a rod, or rod bearings or crank bearings, but I couldn't imagine they are expensive. You could even put in some better pistons, I just always assume crack ringland in the stock motors. 

[RumblyXT]

2 hours ago, KZJonny said:

https://www.flatironstuning.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-ej20x-ej20y-engine
 

Some good info here as well.

I didn’t realize this engine was a 9.5:1 CR for example.

Yes, it has higher compression.

[RumblyXT]

1 hour ago, Tehnation said:

you could rebuild the block for a fraction of the cost of a new one. Don't know how handy you are, but if you pull the motor and tear it apart to inspect the crankshaft, if the rod ate through the bearing and hit the crank, then you probably need a new crankshaft, if not, then its not so bad. Get some new piston rings, a new rod, new rod bearings, might as well replace the crankshaft bearings as well. Get a machine shop to hone the cylinder walls if they need it.  Depending on the damage you might be able to spend 1k or less versus 2k on a new sb. 

If you have another car to drive and the space, why not?  If the crank is good, you could get away with maybe spending 500 bucks in parts. I just don't know how much anything oem costs, a rod, or rod bearings or crank bearings, but I couldn't imagine they are expensive. You could even put in some better pistons, I just always assume crack ringland in the stock motors. 

That’s the thing Tehnation.. I don’t have the space, nor the time and to be honest nor the money either lol to spend on what might possibly turn out to be really ugly inside that ej255.

I have a new home and two little ones to provide for. Hence the quickest solution for me here might be just to get this jdm motor.

Back in the day, I’d have definitely tried it though as I did before partially rebuilding that ej251 on my previous ‘01 Forester L which I used to do everything on, missed that car. So easy to work on it.

Btw, I found out neither the iwire harness merge, nor the jdm ECU are needed. Simply don’t connect the exhaust cam sensors and back off the exhaust gears 1 tooth for the timing. It’ll function as a single ACVS ej255.

Edited February 10, 2023 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

I’ve been looking at some jdm motors. But most sellers don’t state whether an engine fits an automatic vs manual transmission. My Outback has a 5AT. This might be a noob question but when looking at these jdm motors, how can one tell if it’s for an auto vs manual?

I was also wondering how complicated it would be to merge the engine harness adding wires to get both exhaust AVCS to work. It’s just two wires on each sensor after all no?

 

[Tehnation]

They are the same engine manual or automatic, whats different is whats attached to the crankshaft in the back, for manual u will have a flywheel, and for automatics you will have a flexplate.... but same shit! You have a flexplate already, would have to move it over to the other motor. I doubt it will come with a flywheel or flexplate, and if it does just take it off if its a flywheel, or use it if its a flexplate. 

Very complicated! Plugging it in doesn't mean it works, the ECU has to actually know what to do, and our cars our single intake avcs so the ecu wouldn't know what to do with those wires, so adding an exhaust avcs means you need the ecu that can actually process that information otherwise no point. And that motor is jdm so finding a jdm ecu is another task, "OVERNIGHT PARTS FROM JAPAN!" , then you have to figure out if it can work with the rest of the car like your gauges etc. which is another clusterfck if it isn't plug and play.

[Tehnation]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165734326673?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338722076&customid=&toolid=10050

 

flexplate

[RumblyXT]

 

 

5 hours ago, Tehnation said:

They are the same engine manual or automatic, whats different is whats attached to the crankshaft in the back, for manual u will have a flywheel, and for automatics you will have a flexplate.... but same shit! You have a flexplate already, would have to move it over to the other motor. I doubt it will come with a flywheel or flexplate, and if it does just take it off if its a flywheel, or use it if its a flexplate. 

Very complicated! Plugging it in doesn't mean it works, the ECU has to actually know what to do, and our cars our single intake avcs so the ecu wouldn't know what to do with those wires, so adding an exhaust avcs means you need the ecu that can actually process that information otherwise no point. And that motor is jdm so finding a jdm ecu is another task, "OVERNIGHT PARTS FROM JAPAN!" , then you have to figure out if it can work with the rest of the car like your gauges etc. which is another clusterfck if it isn't plug and play.

Thank you for the info Tehnation. 

You make all valid points, specially the one about bringing over parts from Japan if something were to brake, how long do those take and how much more expensive they are.. It looks like though our USDM ECU is pretty compatible with all the electronics on the ej20x motors.

From the videos I’ve watched, people just use the bottom end of the motor (block & heads) along with with all the jdm attached electronics (crankshaft sensor, oil pressure switch, solenoids, both intake & exhaust AVCS gears, etc), certain things do change though..

The top of the jdm motor is not used. We would use the USDM I/M with the USDM wire harness, all fuel lines and most all vacuum hoses. Cross over tube has to be USDM also..

The USDM exhaust manny and USDM turbo has to be reused as well since the jdm turbo flange to DP bolt on doesn’t match. American PCV and hoses would be reused too.

Turbo side coolant hose has to be USDM, jdm one is shorter. Jdm Turbo oil pipe can be reused, it just needs to be moved over an inch ir two to bolt on to the USDM turbo.

Again, the main thing I didn’t like was the whole exhaust AVCS not being used since we have single vs jdm has double AVCS. All users I saw with the 20X motor have just disconnected the exhaust sensors and backed up the exhaust gears 1 tooth = 7 degrees or so to help with the Intake timing. Backing up (counterclockwise) the exhaust gears 2 teeth is too much.. ideally the engine harness merge would take place to control the exhaust sensors, but doesn’t seem to be crucial.

I remember Brian from iwire making emphasis on getting the older ‘05-‘06 motors because those bring a two wire exhaust sensors vs the older ej20x motors ‘07+ have three wire exhaust sensors and those are definitely a problem for the USDM ECU. If done correctly, no adverse engine codes/faults will show up on the dash.

That’s all I remember. I think this is doable, we’ll see..

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by RumblyXT

[Tehnation]

I also believe that the manuals on our cars have belt guides for the timing belt on 3 of the 4 corners, and the automatics do not.... not sure if its true, but I think I read it somewhere on this forum. Maybe someone else could confirm or deny. 

[KZJonny]

Covered on a couple recent threads. All engines have belt guides around 3 of 4 cam gears. Manuals have one that sits right above the crank pulley/gear. This guy. If the engine was a manual, leave it there anyway. Not really needed, but won't do any harm as long as it is adjusted properly.