My ‘05 OBXT journal

[RumblyXT]

1 hour ago, xt2005bonbon said:

That's kind of stupid to cut the wires like that .

Man, these engines look so mint and clean. It's like the owners never drove these cars.

 

Tell me about it. I asked the seller why they do it, he stated it’s because it can’t be used it the states.. well duh why you sell the motor here then. I didn’t get it..

I just got home from work and couldn’t resist spending a good 15 minutes looking at it, inspecting it, smelling it lol I’m like dang this thing actually cane from Japan. I mean I know our cars are made there, but to actually have a motor directly shipped from there it’s pretty awesome.

I found a labeled on the Timing Belt cover by the Left head that I need to find out what it says. All I know it reads 10 Km. This thing cannot possibly have that low mileage..

Anyone here speaks Japanese?

 

[RumblyXT]

1 hour ago, xt2005bonbon said:

Maybe your engine is listed here? Link: http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/en_b13/

 

I have visited that website before. But it looks like it’s only for US and European models only, no jdm..

Edited February 15, 2023 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

Never mind.. this is what the label reads lol

Translated by Yandex: great app for translating text from pics to English 

..although if that’s really what it states, that T/B replacement interval doesn’t really make any sense..

Edited February 15, 2023 by RumblyXT

[xt2005bonbon]

8 hours ago, RumblyXT said:

I have visited that website before. But it looks like it’s only for US and European models only, no jdm..

The EDM version of our cars are really JDM, apart from driving on the other side of the road, except for UK and other places. So, I am pretty sure you'll find your engine parts list there.

[RumblyXT]

Good to know, thank you.

[RumblyXT]

I'm having a hard time selecting a good compression tester since quality usually mean better accurate readings. I went with OTC for the Leak down tester, but is there one you guys can recommend for the compression testing?

This one seems to have pretty great ratings considering the much cheaper price, but I'm not sure. Any suggestions?

https://www.amazon.com/INNOVA-3612-Compression-Tester-Piece/dp/B000EVU89I/ref=sr_1_2?crid=WOGRTDCG7ZVF&keywords=innova+3612+compression+tester&qid=1676510461&sprefix=Innova+3612%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-2

[KZJonny]

That’s probably just fine. Precision is more important than accuracy for this task, for the DIY user. I’ve been using one like that for years… If I was stepping up to actual engine building, I’d have better tools.

If the gauge is repeatable to it’s own measurement, you’re good to go.  It’s more important to have balanced compression between cylinders than a perfectly accurate measurement of actual compression.

Unless the gauge is *so* in accurate that it indicates crazy low compression when in reality you’re fine, knowing all 4 cylinders are within whatever spec to each other is going to tell you more about engine health.

It’ll be hard to get really good compression figures without measuring a warm engine anyway.

 

Before someone yells at me, yes, accuracy is also important!! But for a general health check and further use checking your lawnmower or whatever… just get something that is reasonable, and gives you an indication of health.

[RumblyXT]

Thank you KCJonny. I actually though accuracy and precision were the same thing, not just synonyms to each other. But you're correct from the scientific perspective: "Precision and accuracy are two ways that scientists think about error. Accuracy refers to how close a measurement is to the true or accepted value. Precision refers to how close measurements of the same item are to each other."

The Innova 3612 seems to have good reviews across the webb. Not trying to overthink this too much, but it's probably one of the most important test to determine how good this engine really is. Yes it may look all clean and shiny, but who knows if it might have actually been seating for years.. 

Noob question: Does the motor has to be full of oil for the compression test?

Either way, I would pour all 5 "cheap" quarts of oil and drain it after to get rid of any possible particles in there, but I was just wondering..

I saw one guy spraying turbo/valve cleaner with the engine tilted sideways to remove junk too, great idea since I won't be separating the heads.

[KZJonny]

Er, yeah. I don't bust out my inner scientist too often, but there are places where it matters. The distinction between accuracy and precision is important, and not always well understood.

For the record, my background is in hard sciences, and while my daily work doesn't require it too often, I find it's a great background to have in term of being able to analytically asses daily stuff and build logical pathways to diagnose stuff, even (especially?) in the DIY automotive realm.

I honestly don't know about the oil thing, and in all likelihood, a few rotations of the engine parts with no load to speak of and at low speed is probably not a high wear scenario. BUT if it was my brand new (used) engine, I would probably throw enough oil in to get things lubricated anyway. Probably don't need 5 quarts (whatever a quart is.... ) to have sufficient oil for the pump to pick it up and distribute it to where it needs to be, but again, if you're just using the cheapest possible stuff for the safety margin, then at what cost safety? You can always keep it after you drain it for general garage use in an oiler (putting on bolt threads etc....) probably last you a lifetime. Or, put it in your lawnmower, whatever.

If it was a vertically oriented engine, a tablespoon of oil poured into the cylinder before the compression test and allowed to seep down around the rings will help get a more accurate measurement of compression in a cold engine, but I don't know how much that will help in an H4, as the oil would collect at the bottom of the cylinder....

[RumblyXT]

Always good to have a science background person around.. 

Some would probably be inclined to think I overanalyze things too much and that's ok. But better safe than sorry.

I'm going to try to squirt some thin oil like 0W-10 around the cylinder walls and slowly rotate the engine a couple of times letting the oil spread around as much as possible into the rings to get a better reading. 

Doing some more research, iwire offers a kit to merge the engine wire harness to hook both the Intake and Exhaust AVCS solenoids and sensor to the ECU, but I'd need a JDM ECU for this to work, since our USDM one only controls the Intake AVCS. I'd then need to find someone to program the immobilizer system to get the JDM ECU working.. Hmm..

That would mean no Access Port since it would be a JDM ECU. So it's either I leave the exhaust AVCS sensors unplugged and the engine would not reach its full potential, or tune the JDM ECU, but cannot use an Access Port in the future.

[RumblyXT]

Ok.. this is getting more complicated than I thought and I’m finding out the hard way what Tehnation was referring to..

It is proving really difficult to find someone who would tune a jdm ECU. I have called 4 places locally and sadly no one wants to get involved with tuning the jdm ECU for the ej20x motor.

Without the jdm ECU, the motor would run sluggish since both exhaust AVCS would be off. It would run, but not the same..

I found/read an entire thread at SubaruOutback.org forum by a guy named Ryan who’s a computer genius.. he started back in 2018 and was successful at understanding the jdm ECU but it takes a lot of work..

At this point I’m even considering returning the motor which I haven’t even touch yet. I’ll make a final couple of attempts tomorrow.. if I cannot get that motor properly running this swap will be worthless.

Edited February 17, 2023 by RumblyXT

[xt2005bonbon]

So, you were not able to find threads on Nasioc of folks running this engine with good power using our ECU without the exhaust avcs?

[KZJonny]

Local is always great, but have you reached out to either Cryotune or Tuning Alliance?

E-tune, yeah. But I doubt there are too many who've tuned more Subarus over the years. (Undoubtedly there are some, but from reading around here for a few years, they seem to be very widely used, respected and are still in the business of doing older Subies.)

Might not work for you, or the answer may be a "no" from them as well, but could be worth the ask?

[RumblyXT]

I just sent an email to Cryotuning actually, but they’re in Arvada, CO. Hopefully they can help but usually tuners want the car present there.

I have done a ton of research and watched many videos. I have not yet encountered one person using a tuned jdm ECU with the 20X.

 I’m not going to give up that easy though.. returning the motor is my last option, and I only have 14 days from the day it arrived.

That guy Ryan from SubaruOutback.org is the closest one that has gotten to breaking the codes/cracking the jdm ECU, but jis skills/knowledge is eons ahead of me. I sent him a message to see if he’ll be willing to tune another jdm ej20x EVU. The thread he had is basically based on my same exact car, even the color..

I have contacted already 4 shops locally, no one knows/or doesn’t want to get involved with tuning a jdm ECU.

Anyways.. I will keep investigating and learning, but worse comes to worse, I’ll retard the exhaust AVCS gears 1 tooth to help the timing on the Intake sprockets. Not sure if the motor would run sluggish, but it might be better than letting my car go for $500 to the scrap yard..

I will keep trying..

[xt2005bonbon]

Did you see these comments from this (not so useful) video?

[KZJonny]

I really don't think unless you're living your life at the redline, you'd see much of a loss of power withoug exhaust valve phasing being active.

Yes, of course it's there for a reason, but in turbo applications, there is also quite a lot of *push* happening to get gasses into and out of the combustion chamber. I don't know anything about the cam timing on a JDM 20x, so perhaps there isn't very much overlap for intake and exhaust being open simultaineously....

My suspicion is that you'll really see the most advantage to the exhaust phasing at high RPM when the time available to clear the chamber is *really* short. The EJ20 should/will spin a little faster more safely than the EJ25, if for no other reason than there is less weight/cylinder.... Still, unless you flog it hard and often.

Just suggesting that retarding ex cam timing and getting your car back with the stuff you have is worth a go, for the price. It would give you time to research your options on the JDM engine. Hell, worst case, that is still a good price for a low mile short block. Bolt on the USDM heads, and run it.

[RumblyXT]

51 minutes ago, xt2005bonbon said:

Did you see these comments from this (not so useful) video?

Lol yeah I’m not so sure about that.. you have to see the amount of work this guy went through trying to decode the jdm ECU (10 pages of a thread with extensive deep research. People do stupid stuff, then they complain their motor blew up. Which is why I’m doing the research on trying to go the extra mile to run/tune correctly this jdm motor.

A lot of crazy ideas out there..

[RumblyXT]

1 hour ago, KZJonny said:

I really don't think unless you're living your life at the redline, you'd see much of a loss of power withoug exhaust valve phasing being active.

Yes, of course it's there for a reason, but in turbo applications, there is also quite a lot of *push* happening to get gasses into and out of the combustion chamber. I don't know anything about the cam timing on a JDM 20x, so perhaps there isn't very much overlap for intake and exhaust being open simultaineously....

My suspicion is that you'll really see the most advantage to the exhaust phasing at high RPM when the time available to clear the chamber is *really* short. The EJ20 should/will spin a little faster more safely than the EJ25, if for no other reason than there is less weight/cylinder.... Still, unless you flog it hard and often.

Just suggesting that retarding ex cam timing and getting your car back with the stuff you have is worth a go, for the price. It would give you time to research your options on the JDM engine. Hell, worst case, that is still a good price for a low mile short block. Bolt on the USDM heads, and run it.

Couldn’t agree with this more.. I paid $1,150 for the motor and have all the upper parts from the ej255 available. I still need to see if I can use the old turbo and PCV (which was brand new). In any case I can open the turbo and clean it well. I’m not in a hurry with this swap. But yes, for the price, I think it is a great deal.. I’m anal about doing things right (sometimes that can be counterintuitive).. but it has worked for me in the past. Being meticulous doesn’t hurt. I’m also not a teenager anymore, so no the car is not for racing, just daily driving.

 Will try to copy/paste the thread from SubiOutback forum, the phone is not letting me. I’ll try it later from the computer.

[xt2005bonbon]

29 minutes ago, RumblyXT said:

Lol yeah I’m not so sure about that.. you have to see the amount of work this guy went through trying to decode the jdm ECU (10 pages of a thread with extensive deep research. People do stupid stuff, then they complain their motor blew up. Which is why I’m doing the research on trying to go the extra mile to run/tune correctly this jdm motor.

A lot of crazy ideas out there..

I don't think it is that hard actually. I know a couple of guys on the forum had to swap USDM ECUs for various reasons and did swap that 'eeprom' portion so the immobilizer worked and so on. You can ping 'Infosecdad' on the forum. I believe he did this.

[RumblyXT]

23 minutes ago, xt2005bonbon said:

I don't think it is that hard actually. I know a couple of guys on the forum had to swap USDM ECUs for various reasons and did swap that 'eeprom' portion so the immobilizer worked and so on. You can ping 'Infosecdad' on the forum. I believe he did this.

Oh cool.. I’ll go bug him full of questions now

j/k Yeah I’ve seen him pop in here from time to time.

[RumblyXT]

 

swap USDM ECUs for various reasons and did swap that 'eeprom' portion so the immobilizer worked

Will look into it. Thanks

Edited February 17, 2023 by RumblyXT

[Infosecdad]

Here you go, I did this between USDM ECUs.

If JDM ECUs use a similar eprom for security, it should work in theory.

 

[rhino6303]

You should reach out to NSFW. He has dual avcs in his 05 LGT from a 08+ sti.

[RumblyXT]

1 hour ago, rhino6303 said:

You should reach out to NSFW. He has dual avcs in his 05 LGT from a 08+ sti.

I will, thank you for letting me know. The more input the better.

3 hours ago, Infosecdad said:

Here you go, I did this between USDM ECUs.

If JDM ECUs use a similar eprom for security, it should work in theory.

 

I appreciate the help. This is a totally new realm to me.  

Here's the thread I mentioned from the other forum. Infosecdad, based on your background, I think you will enjoy this.. edit: never mind, I see you're already giving Ryan Geyer the props..

https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/immobilizer-reverse-engineering-2005-obxt-probably-other-year-models.501753/

I need to learn Python..

Edited February 18, 2023 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

I called a local tuning shop here in Miami just asking around. They quoted me $900 for the first time tuning, $600 the next follow up..  Is tuning really that expensive??