My ‘05 OBXT journal

[KZJonny]

Nope:

https://www.cryotuneperformance.com/shop

[KZJonny]

The added headache of the JDM things could add some cost, but that seems a little high.

For me to do an in person tune on a dyno locally was like $700 CAD, then follow ups were $400?

 

That's in CAD and at a reputable Subaru tuner.

[seanyb505]

Are they a high end place that does Audis and nissan gtrs?

I feel like a good dyno session should only be in the 600-800 range and not require heavy follow up tunes, but South Florida be South Florida. 

[RumblyXT]

No kidding.. honestly at this stage I'm looking into probably having to learn to do my own tuning.. Since I'm planning on bringing over the jdm ECU to use with this swap, I will be regardless forced to learn some coding/computer skills.

I'm sure this absurd inflation feeling is general, but here in Miami is to the sky!

But I will get it done.. plus, I have a great team now with me.. 

What was that quote from Anthony Hopking on that awesome movie 'The Edge': "What one man can do, another can do!" Say it! ha ha

Edited February 18, 2023 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

This user weenzOr was able to do it on his car using the jdm ECM. But he hasn’t been active in a while. I think he’s a veteran not sure if he’s deployed overseas..

[RumblyXT]

12 hours ago, KZJonny said:

Nope:

https://www.cryotuneperformance.com/shop

Thank you KZJonny. I’m honestly getting ahead of the game with all this research about the jdm ECU. It’s great to know there are options out there and that others have achieved a working jdm ECU on their jdm motors swap.

I have to be honest with myself, not everyone has the computer skills to program an ECM to have everything working on a car. You can really mess things up if you don’t really know what you’re doing.

For now, I will concentrate on what I really should be doing, which tearing down everything, testing the jdm motor and swapping it to the car. That will take some time. 

I will deal with the ECU matter once I’m there.. Thank you all for your help so far.

[RumblyXT]

Onto more important questions for now:

A bear long block can be compression and leak tested outside of the vehicle on an engine stand correct?

Meaning it doesn’t need to have the I/M, engine harness, fuel lines, etc connected to it.. just the bear block/heads propelled by the starter motor with a battery when doing the test.. just making sure

[KZJonny]

1 hour ago, RumblyXT said:

Onto more important questions for now:

A bear long block can be compression and leak tested outside of the vehicle on an engine stand correct?

Meaning it doesn’t need to have the I/M, engine harness, fuel lines, etc connected to it.. just the bear block/heads propelled by the starter motor with a battery when doing the test.. just making sure

You'd want to leave all the oil/pcv lines on it, assuming you're putting some oil in before you cranks it. Figure you'd know that, but "bare block" means different things to different people.

No need for any of the engine managment of fuel delivery equipment, no.

[RumblyXT]

45 minutes ago, KZJonny said:

You'd want to leave all the oil/pcv lines on it, assuming you're putting some oil in before you cranks it. Figure you'd know that, but "bare block" means different things to different people.

No need for any of the engine managment of fuel delivery equipment, no.

Yes, by bare long block I meant only the block and heads attached to it with the oil pan filled to capacity.. just wasn’t sure if it was required to have the I/M mounted on top of the motor.

I asked that question because I wanted to clean the Intake ports first by spraying them with a cleaner before cranking the motor on the stand. That way, I can get rid of any carbon deposits  around the valves that might have been seating there for years.

As in this example below:

 

 

[RumblyXT]

Got an answer from Cryotuning today..

Re: [Cryotune] General Contact Form - new submission

“Hello there,

 

Unfortunately we do not currently support the EJ20X swaps for tuning due to issues we have see with them in the past in cars that came equipped with the 2.5 originally.

 

Very sorry we are unable to help.”

 

Looks like I’ll be on my own for this one.. like I said, nobody wants to get involved with jdm ECUs

 

 

 

[subisubisu]

If it was me, I'd look at taking the heads off the EJ20 and swapping the short blocks.  Get the car back driving and have a short block rebuild (possibly) and some JDM heads and ECU lurking for future application, or up for sale.

[RumblyXT]

10 hours ago, subisubisu said:

If it was me, I'd look at taking the heads off the EJ20 and swapping the short blocks.  Get the car back driving and have a short block rebuild (possibly) and some JDM heads and ECU lurking for future application, or up for sale.

You mean like a hybrid application, combining both the JDM block and USDM heads? I honestly don’t even know if that’s possible given the JDM engine has way higher compression than the ej255 motor.

I was wondering if a dual AVCS STi engine wire harness (which already comes with the exhaust cam sensors cables/connectors) along with an ‘05 JMD LGT ECU could be paired to the jdm 20x motor..

iwire also mentioned the exhaust cam sensor must be “properly capped” or the heads could be starved of oil.. go figure 

If someone knows what “properly capping” the exhaust cam sensors mean, I’m all ears.

This is feeling like a freaking roller coaster ride..

Edited February 19, 2023 by RumblyXT

[Tehnation]

I guess cause oil goes through the exhaust cam sensor/ocv or whatever is down there. So you can't remove it and just plug it normally, cause then oil would stop circulating to the camshaft, so you have to do it in a way that allows oil to pass through otherwise its just a blockage. 

[RumblyXT]

I honestly don’t know Tehnation. But when iwire is telling me that oil starvation to the heads can happen, it’s to really consider doing it right.

I will get it done. One way or another, but I will. I have some ideas planned already..

[Tehnation]

That video you linked with john cooley from flatiron explains it around 14 minutes, they explain what exactly is going on and how to make it work! 

[subisubisu]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:35 AM, RumblyXT said:

You mean like a hybrid application, combining both the JDM block and USDM heads? I honestly don’t even know if that’s possible given the JDM engine has way higher compression than the ej255 motor.

I don't know either, but there doesn't seem to be an easy path, so examining more paths might result in a preferable journey and destination.

I have plenty left to learn, but looking at forums I see that people (strangers on the internet, like me, so reader beware) run stroker motors and otherwise mess with displacement and compression.  I expect that not every tuner can account for such things, but I believe it's possible and probably has been done more than once, especially given the popularity of JDM stuff and the EJ20 block.  I do observe that popularity seems to be much more outside of this forum's focus on the 2005-09 LGT and OBXT, which mainly seems to confine itself to tuning mods of turbos and fueling; even intakes are not a big focus here.  What's the motto, "Stay stock, stay happy"?

So by "look at" I meant investigate the feasibility mechanically (do USDM B25 heads match acceptably well with the JDM EJ20 cylinders and pistons) and computationally (are there tuners who can go down to the level of displacement and compression variations), since that's what you have on hand that works together the most.  The 2005 USDM ECU doesn't understand the JDM heads' exhaust valve timing, and it seems not all tuners want to fool with a complete swap, which would also entail matching the JDM ECU to your wiring harness to run the rest of the car, which is a daunting prospect to me.  Hopefully the JDM EJ20 block's few sensors (knock, oil pressure, whatever else) connect readily to the existing USDM harness.

No matter the path (that doesn't involve YNANSB or rebuilding it, which you have been rejecting) I think you're looking at some sort of fairly unique modification.  Fairly unique, because someone may have done it before and blazed a trail, but there does not seem to be a highway.

[RumblyXT]

17 hours ago, Tehnation said:

That video you linked with john cooley from flatiron explains it around 14 minutes, they explain what exactly is going on and how to make it work! 

Not sure if what you are referring to is what he mentioned of placing non AVCS cams/Gears on the exhaust side as we have on our USDM motors? Since "all EJ cams have basically the same fitment"..

The issue is having to leave the solenoid in place to provide oil flow to the camshaft..

Would be interesting to find that NASIOC thread they talked about of that guy that created a custom made block which duplicated the oil passages of the solenoid to the cam.

But this all goes back to the key component: the (JDM ECU), since it's programmed to control bot the the Intake and Exhaust AVCS cam sensors.

 

[Tehnation]

yea at 14 minutes they address all that, they said that some kids over on nasioc have a 3d printed solenoid that fits it and allows the oil to pass. 14 minutes is where they address it and tell you all the options u have. you can't remove it and you can't plug it basically. So you have to plug it while allowing oil to pass, thats all. I think they said you can just leave the old one in there i believe, which is a problem why? Its on the bottom of the engine, not like it would be an eyesore. 

[RumblyXT]

3 hours ago, subisubisu said:

I don't know either, but there doesn't seem to be an easy path, so examining more paths might result in a preferable journey and destination.

I have plenty left to learn, but looking at forums I see that people (strangers on the internet, like me, so reader beware) run stroker motors and otherwise mess with displacement and compression.  I expect that not every tuner can account for such things, but I believe it's possible and probably has been done more than once, especially given the popularity of JDM stuff and the EJ20 block.  I do observe that popularity seems to be much more outside of this forum's focus on the 2005-09 LGT and OBXT, which mainly seems to confine itself to tuning mods of turbos and fueling; even intakes are not a big focus here.  What's the motto, "Stay stock, stay happy"?

So by "look at" I meant investigate the feasibility mechanically (do USDM B25 heads match acceptably well with the JDM EJ20 cylinders and pistons) and computationally (are there tuners who can go down to the level of displacement and compression variations), since that's what you have on hand that works together the most.  The 2005 USDM ECU doesn't understand the JDM heads' exhaust valve timing, and it seems not all tuners want to fool with a complete swap, which would also entail matching the JDM ECU to your wiring harness to run the rest of the car, which is a daunting prospect to me.  Hopefully the JDM EJ20 block's few sensors (knock, oil pressure, whatever else) connect readily to the existing USDM harness.

No matter the path (that doesn't involve YNANSB or rebuilding it, which you have been rejecting) I think you're looking at some sort of fairly unique modification.  Fairly unique, because someone may have done it before and blazed a trail, but there does not seem to be a highway.

Highways are made by first blazing a trail..  

Just because others haven't been able to achieve it, doesn't mean it cannot be done. But a few others have actually achieved it, that's my point.. The path definitely isn't an easy one though..

The ej20x long block sensors, switches, etc., all seem to plug in yes, except of course for the ex cam sensors which are obviously not included given the 20x is a dual AVCS motor. iwire provides a merge kit for that.

If I do achieve this, I will try to keep the car totally stock, so as not to abuse the motor at all.

 

[Tehnation]

I'm sure if you looked around on nasioc or 3d printing design sites, i forget the names. you can just get the files and print yourself some of ur own , or find a friend with a 3d printer, or do what I would do make friends with someone who owns one LOL! 

[Tehnation]

Also if you plan to test that motor on a stand, DO NOT run it to long, unless you are rigging up a cooling system as well. No coolant means bad things can happen real quick if you let that thing get to hot. 

As for tuning you would probably have to find an etune regardless otherwise the car isn't going to start most likely or run properly. 

So as I understand it, you have to swap everything north of the longblock, ie tgvs and intake manifold, as well as exhaust manifold and turbo.  Then you have to swap the exhaust cams and cam sprockets, adjust some timing, and then plug in a 3d printed bypass for exhaust avcs or just leave it in place. Then get it tuned.

The tuning seems to be the last hurdle. Maybe look into opensource tuning and nasioc you might be able to scavenge a tune to get you at least moving. There are also some people on here that know opensource, and might give it whirl as well, at ur own discretion of course lol! 

Maybe contact john cooley at flat irons, dude is always willing to help, I just use the flat irons chat and a lot of the time hes there, I have gotten a ton of information from him. Hes the one that did that video. But he has live sessions as well where you can just ask questions. 

[RumblyXT]

I saw this on reddit while searching. Seems to be another viable alternative for this ej20x swap, and one that allows keeping the USDM engine wire harness, USDM ECU and single AVCS.

The nice thing is he even listed the parts needed to be sorted out and options to tune it afterwards.

Looks like the riskiest part of this option is tapping the cams ports to block the oil feed as one would have to be very careful not to scratch the cam's riding surface.

I would have to do more research to see long term how the motor/timing help up with this option.

User name is PyroBP5

USDM Legacy EJ20X - Google Docs

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by RumblyXT

[Tehnation]

Wait now i am confused? Why did you want the jdm ecu, I thought it was only for the dual avcs? I thought u could use the usdm ecu and harness? 

[RumblyXT]

I wanted the jdm ECU in case of having to go with the option of dual AVCS, as the motor originally operates in Japan. That honestly would be the best option but is one that requires a lot of work with the ECU and coding/computer skills I don’t have.

[Tehnation]

Getting a jdm ecu, would mean a jdm harness, and then getting it to work with the lgt, not sure if that car came with the 2.0 turbo dual avcs in japan if it did you would need that harness, and then your going to need jdm tuners.... all that seems like $$ which this project wasn't supposed to be. I would keep it as simple as possible.