Performance tires

[MoleMan]

5 minutes ago, 06Obsidian3.0RB said:

Where I live we cannot even get all season or winter tyres. It doesn't drop any lower than 8 C on the coldest night other year.

Everyone runs summer tyres all year round.

Recommend Florida is the same.

I hear dws are very good though. Everyone seems to like them.

 

In that case.

Even though I hate Michelin.  That would be what I would recommend for a summer tire.  The Conti is good but the Michelin is better on a true summer tire.

 

And it pains me to say that as I highly hate Michelins rubber compounds.  To me they are way to hard.

[06Obsidian3.0RB]

4 minutes ago, MoleMan said:

In that case.

Even though I hate Michelin.  That would be what I would recommend for a summer tire.  The Conti is good but the Michelin is better on a true summer tire.

 

And it pains me to say that as I highly hate Michelins rubber compounds.  To me they are way to hard.

Nah I have Michelin PS4 on my old daily. Sticky but feel like a pair of Converse chuck Taylor all stars.

The Goodyears are much much better in terms of steering feel and feedback and ride quality.

GY feel like Nike runners compared to Michelin PS4.

I'd go conti sport contact 7 if I was going to a different brand.

[Febreze Mee]

Just for everyone's information, there are differences between the PS4 and the PS4S that Michelin puts out. And both have different handling characteristics from one another. It's easy to use the two model names interchangeably, but it would be similar to calling an NSX Type R an NSX Type S, or vice versa. 

[06Obsidian3.0RB]

On 11/3/2023 at 10:26 AM, Febreze Mee said:

Just for everyone's information, there are differences between the PS4 and the PS4S that Michelin puts out. And both have different handling characteristics from one another. It's easy to use the two model names interchangeably, but it would be similar to calling an NSX Type R an NSX Type S, or vice versa. 

Do you have personal experience with the PS4/PS4s difference? I am curious if there is a huge jump to the S.

 

I can only talk to my own experience. 

Personally I have cars with PS4, GY Assymetric 5, Assymetric 6 and GY SuperSport.

I hate the PS4. They're made in China.

The Assymetric 6 were cheaper than PS4 and are made in Germany and are a beautiful tyre. They are on a BMW M Sport and compliment the car beautifully. Rim protection is great and the car is unflappable. 

The GY Super Sports are on the 3.0R Spec B and are wonderful and handle superb, however I recommend the Assymetric 6 is the better road tyre due to wear and wet weather performance. 

Just looking at the premium to go from GY the PS4S I personally don't see the merit given how happy we are with the GY products. 

A direct comparison would be PS4 to Assymetric 5. I bought Assymmetric again. It has better rim protection, made in Germany, better steering response and sportier more nimble handling.

For street car I wouldn't look at the GY SS or the PS4s. Unless autocrossing.

There is a good Continental the UC6 which are on my parents car a Mazda SP23 which have done well.

[Captain Redbeard]

Throwing in $.02, Conti DWS06 Plus, has been great for me. I put these on about 1 year and 10k miles ago. Coming from the Firestone Indy 500 AS, did not care for that tire. Road noise became quite bad with a little less than 50% Tread remaining. DWS is a great value, a little cheaper than a max performance summer tire and better treadlife warranty. It sticks harder than I would be willing to push the car on the street. That being said, someday I will have a dedicated summer and winter tire. Oh yeah, these worked great in the snow last winter. We will see once the "s" wears off. For those that don't know the letters, DWS (dry, wet, snow) are molded into the tread blocks. As the tire wears down, the S will disappear first, then the W, and finally the D, then it's time to look at replacing the tires. 

[tehspud]

[Febreze Mee]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:07 PM, 06Obsidian3.0RB said:

Do you have personal experience with the PS4/PS4s difference? I am curious if there is a huge jump to the S.

For street car I wouldn't look at the GY SS or the PS4s. Unless autocrossing.

I do not. I've only ever driven extensively on the PS4s. And now I have a Autocross season on some Falken 615K+ s.

 

Fair point. Your decision should definitely consider the style of driving you take up, and the amount of that driving type. I'm out for a spirited drive 370/365 days a year, and am dependent upon all the performance I can get from my tires. The PS4s make sense for the pleasure I derive for my daily drives. If it was only a get-to-and-from-work car, I would loosen up a ton on my tire choice. 

[seanyb505]

On 12/7/2023 at 2:01 PM, tehspud said:

By this standard I'd say uhp summer tires from 15 years ago are not true performance tires. The latest all seasons outpace the old stuff. 

[silverton]

I don't recommend running 15 year old rubbers.

[Febreze Mee]

Durex also recommends against 15 year old rubbers. 

[tehspud]

22 hours ago, seanyb505 said:

By this standard I'd say uhp summer tires from 15 years ago are not true performance tires. The latest all seasons outpace the old stuff. 

I mean, I feel like we are talking about just modern stuff. No one should be considering putting on tires that old unless they're very, very desperate. 

If you're looking for new tires for street & track days (from OP), however, I don't think the DWS06 or other all-seasons should be in the conversation.

[seanyb505]

I meant if we had this conversation 15 years ago as opposed to running 15yo tires lol. 

The dws are pretty old aren't they? I feel like it was that line that was on my car when I bought it in 2012. 

The Michelin as4s rollout used wrxs at nola. Are there faster tires? Sure. But if you would have done that track event 15 years ago with whatever was hot back then you wouldn't get out of the car and think, "eh that's not really a true performance tire."

The cross climate is definitely in that class of "no.. that's not really a good trackable tire.." 

[silverton]

15 minutes ago, seanyb505 said:

I meant if we had this conversation 15 years ago as opposed to running 15yo tires lol. 

The dws are pretty old aren't they? I feel like it was that line that was on my car when I bought it in 2012. 

The Michelin as4s rollout used wrxs at nola. Are there faster tires? Sure. But if you would have done that track event 15 years ago with whatever was hot back then you wouldn't get out of the car and think, "eh that's not really a true performance tire."

The cross climate is definitely in that class of "no.. that's not really a good trackable tire.." 

They call them DWS06 Plus now.   They improved the wet and snow performance by like 10% or some silly metric they decided to use.

Cross Climates are for your grandmas outback.

[06Obsidian3.0RB]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:07 AM, Febreze Mee said:

I do not. I've only ever driven extensively on the PS4s. And now I have a Autocross season on some Falken 615K+ s.

 

Fair point. Your decision should definitely consider the style of driving you take up, and the amount of that driving type. I'm out for a spirited drive 370/365 days a year, and am dependent upon all the performance I can get from my tires. The PS4s make sense for the pleasure I derive for my daily drives. If it was only a get-to-and-from-work car, I would loosen up a ton on my tire choice. 

Have a look at tyre reviews on utube for his UHP tyre reviews before purchasing your next set. Other manufacturers have caught up.

[06Obsidian3.0RB]

Simple tyre currently has Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport in 225/40 18 92 Y for $227.99 each.

https://simpletire.com/brands/goodyear-tires/eagle-f1-supersport#curationPos=none&curationSeq=none&curationSource=none&itemId=237534&mpn=112070591&pageSource=PLP&productPos=none&region=r9&tireSize=225-40rr18&userRegion=9&userZip=89119&zip=89119

These are an excellent true UHP Street/Track tyre and are a direct competitor to the 4s. However have a better sportier steering feel.

Honestly if your looking for a street track tyre UHP you would be nuts to pass these up at that price.

We have these on our 3.0R spec b. And honestly are more tyre than the car needs.

[06Obsidian3.0RB]

8 hours ago, silverton said:

They call them DWS06 Plus now.   They improved the wet and snow performance by like 10% or some silly metric they decided to use.

Cross Climates are for your grandmas outback.

I don't even understand why people who run DWS year round are even participating in a thread about true UHP summer street/track tyres.

[KZJonny]

22 minutes ago, 06Obsidian3.0RB said:

I don't even understand why people who run DWS year round are even participating in a thread about true UHP summer street/track tyres.

I don’t drive my car at all in winter, but selected the DWS for my three season, aggressive driving tire, because they have a much better rating in very wet conditions.

I live between two of the largest lakes in North America, and it is a humid, and frequently *very* rainy place.

True UHP summer tires would leave me waiting below underpasses vs something with more grooving and water clearing ability. So…. In the interest of always getting to work on time, they make good sense for a DD.

Just saying, there are people who may have legitimate reasons for being a fan of that particular type of tire.

[Febreze Mee]

1 hour ago, 06Obsidian3.0RB said:

Simple tyre currently has Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport in 225/40 18 92 Y for $227.99 each.

https://simpletire.com/brands/goodyear-tires/eagle-f1-supersport#curationPos=none&curationSeq=none&curationSource=none&itemId=237534&mpn=112070591&pageSource=PLP&productPos=none&region=r9&tireSize=225-40rr18&userRegion=9&userZip=89119&zip=89119

These are an excellent true UHP Street/Track tyre and are a direct competitor to the 4s. However have a better sportier steering feel.

Honestly if your looking for a street track tyre UHP you would be nuts to pass these up at that price.

We have these on our 3.0R spec b. And honestly are more tyre than the car needs.

For $70 more, on the same site, I can have an objectively superior tire with a higher tread wear.

https://simpletire.com/brands/michelin-tires/pilot-sport-4s#curationPos=none&curationSeq=none&curationSource=none&itemId=190452&mpn=38754&pageSource=PLP&productPos=none&region=r10&tireSize=235-40zrr18&userRegion=10&userZip=98499&zip=98499

[06Obsidian3.0RB]

1 hour ago, Febreze Mee said:

For $70 more, on the same site, I can have an objectively superior tire with a higher tread wear.

https://simpletire.com/brands/michelin-tires/pilot-sport-4s#curationPos=none&curationSeq=none&curationSource=none&itemId=190452&mpn=38754&pageSource=PLP&productPos=none&region=r10&tireSize=235-40zrr18&userRegion=10&userZip=98499&zip=98499

Post wasn't directed at you. It was answering OP's query and the Florida man who revived the thread.

PS4s has a excellent reputation if you like it stick with it.

This is a good comparison of the SS vs 4s:

In answer to the OP and Florida man the tyres I'd consider as real street/track UHP summer tyres are:

GY SS

PS4s

Continental Sport Contact 7.

And by this I mean real treet tires which will handle rain and not die if used on a track.

Edited December 12, 2023 by 06Obsidian3.0RB

[boxkita]

meh...

Arguing about which high end summer tire works best for a 20yo touring sedan or wagon with a random assortment of parts in a variety of conditions seems like a waste of time. Any tire you buy currently will be better than the tires that came on the car new. Even my much loved Michelin Supersports are more than a decade old and have been surpassed. 

This is a 4yo thread with alot of knowledgeable replies up front. 

You want a fast summer tire, pick one of the top 3 autox tires. You want a track tire that lasts any slick other than Hoosier A7 is going to outlast a summer tire. If you live in a warm climate, buy summer tires. If you live in a cold climate, buy all season. If you have to actually drive in snow, buy a second set of wheels and put studded tires on.

If you want the most life out of whatever tire you buy, replace all your bushings, get an alignment that matches factory settings. Additional camber only matters in limited situations after you have done all your bushings and the rest of your suspension parts. really.

Michelin Supersports had a 30k warranty. I never got to use it because I wore off the outer blocks on the track. 15 years later, Michelin PS4S have a similar warranty. My gr86 wore them out in 16k miles. This time the wear pattern is even across the tread. Performance tires wear from performance driving. If spending $1000-1500/year on tires is too much, buy a high mileage all season. It'll still be higher performance than the car was designed for.

[06Obsidian3.0RB]

4 hours ago, boxkita said:

meh...

Arguing about which high end summer tire works best for a 20yo touring sedan or wagon with a random assortment of parts in a variety of conditions seems like a waste of time. Any tire you buy currently will be better than the tires that came on the car new. Even my much loved Michelin Supersports are more than a decade old and have been surpassed. 

This is a 4yo thread with alot of knowledgeable replies up front. 

You want a fast summer tire, pick one of the top 3 autox tires. You want a track tire that lasts any slick other than Hoosier A7 is going to outlast a summer tire. If you live in a warm climate, buy summer tires. If you live in a cold climate, buy all season. If you have to actually drive in snow, buy a second set of wheels and put studded tires on.

If you want the most life out of whatever tire you buy, replace all your bushings, get an alignment that matches factory settings. Additional camber only matters in limited situations after you have done all your bushings and the rest of your suspension parts. really.

Michelin Supersports had a 30k warranty. I never got to use it because I wore off the outer blocks on the track. 15 years later, Michelin PS4S have a similar warranty. My gr86 wore them out in 16k miles. This time the wear pattern is even across the tread. Performance tires wear from performance driving. If spending $1000-1500/year on tires is too much, buy a high mileage all season. It'll still be higher performance than the car was designed for.

Hey you said it. Were arguing about $1000 to $2000 tyres on 20 year old $3000 sh1t boxes.

We keep my wife's car for when she has to go to a poor neighbourhood. 

 

Honestly falken fk520's are overkill.

[silverton]

On 11/24/2019 at 8:13 PM, 08legacygtturbo said:

What tires is everyone running looking at performance tires for dry/wet weather road and track surface I'm going to be running 255/35/18 was looking at Continental extreme contact sports and Toyo r888r I have looked at other brands but what's popular on our 4th gens

On 8/1/2023 at 3:30 PM, edfernandez2 said:

I bought my Legacy from a dealer but with 2010 WRX 17 OEM wheels.  I'm shopping around for tires and could use some guidance.  Should I create a separate thread on this?  Location is in Florida, so no snowy winters, just plenty of humid heat and rain.  Edit: I also forgot to mention- it'll be for road use not track.  

15 hours ago, 06Obsidian3.0RB said:

I don't even understand why people who run DWS year round are even participating in a thread about true UHP summer street/track tyres.

 

Are we in the same thread buddy?  Neither OP or the revivalist mention UHP tires.  OP is asking for dry/wet weather road and track, so that probably actually means more road than track.  and the other guy said "for road use not track"

So yeah, people who run DWS year round should be participating in this thread as it's a very good tire for what both people are asking for.

[BoozeRS05]

Good summer tires can handle wet conditions without issue. Once cold becomes a factor, it’s acceptable to discuss summer and winter tires.

All-season tires don’t have a place in any serious tire conversion, but that’s just my opinion.

[boxkita]

awd makes up for any traction issues with summer tires. 

[06Obsidian3.0RB]

19 hours ago, BoozeRS05 said:

Good summer tires can handle wet conditions without issue. Once cold becomes a factor, it’s acceptable to discuss summer and winter tires.

All-season tires don’t have a place in any serious tire conversion, but that’s just my opinion.

We all must realise summer tyre typically refers to tyres developed with summer in places like Scotland, Norway, Russia, North Japan  etc. In mind.

Their design temperature range is typically from zero 0c or a bit lower to 40 or 50. And are designed for all weather types which may be encountered in 'summer' in the above mentioned countries . Some are notorious for really bad summers.

So a good summer tyre is not just designed for a nice summers day, but also an early spring sleet.