Subaru H6 Twin Turbo MY06/07

[IwannaSportSedan]

Stupid.

 

The SVX wasn't the problem, as a whole. Details were the problem.

 

Flat front end. Not bad. Not charismatic, though. Certainly shows it's age.

 

Old school dash with a covered radio console. (I hate doors that always are open because what is behind them is actually useful)

 

No Manual transmission. Big mistake. AWD not standard until later. It wasn't seen as a performance car, but a cruiser. Cruisers sell to a different clientele, with a lot less tendency to buy a contraversial car.

 

Braking and drivetrain reliability issues. Solvable, but hard on an otherwise contraversially styled car. Does not build the best reputation.

 

Car was a bit big, again goes to the cruiser role. The Porsche 928 was being put out to pasture, as well as the 3000GT and Stealth at the same time as the SVX was trying to go into the market, SUVs were going great guns, and the Outback was picking up the alternative-to-an-SUV role. Coupes were on the outs in all markets and brands.

 

So. Fix the problems, take into account the differing market conditions, and a subaru SPORT touring coupe could do well. Not exactly the SVX's original form or role, but a new and improved resurrection.

 

Use the Legacy Sedan platform. Parts sharing can help here, and it is a good platform, with performance drivetrain already in place, and the H6TT would be a blockbuster for a performance coupe. Porsche proves that at $120k. 2.5Turbo and 3.0R H6 to round out the engine options, 250hp in either base configuration. Good place to start, going up to 400 with the H6TT.

 

The Legacy platform solves most of the weight and size problem. Not overly large, not overly heavy, but big enough to be a really useable coupe with performance and long legs.

 

Manual transmissions. Already there. 5MT and 6MT, as well as the 5EAT sport shifted automatic are naturals for this role, with 65% rear AWD bias. Better than 4-speed auto that the SVX was limited to.

 

Solve the interior. Subaru is already there, too. the Legacy interior looks GREAT compared to previous Subaru interiors, SVX included. Another step forward in the same direction (replaceable stereo, or at least Aux in) and the three-knob LCD climate control, EL guages, steering wheel audio controls... it is right on the cusp.

 

Styling. Subaru is getting much better at that, as well. The legacy is handsome, and on the verge of being actually agressive.

 

The three grille theme could work. Set lower on the front, with no or a very thin intake below it. dont' make three peices to the upper grille. Make three grilles ALL that there is. Like the Alfa 8C competizione, or Bugatti Veyron. Very doable.

 

Do coke-bottle fenders, with some sleek headlights. A sleek glasshouse, with swan-wing doors, (window-in-a-window, of course... for the bloodline) reverse rear half doors, and a wide fastback hatch.

 

Take cues from the general form of the Ford Iosis european concept car.

 

Make it sexy, make it powerful, make it perform as good as it looks. With all of that, AWD, and enough room inside to actually be a car that people can drive, and drive well, every day. It will sell. Especially if advertized better than the Legacy has been. Guilt-free, useable performance, and good looks to boot.

 

IF you want a hot hatch, a lightweight car in the 22B/2.5RS tradition, that would be a WRX impreza coupe, lighter, stiffer, and Rally-ready. Sexier-looking than a sedan, but just as capable. That should also exist.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Subaru might want to consider a coupe or two. Others are...

 

http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/7852/scan8op.jpg

http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/2540/scan00010qg.jpg

[Renesis8]

Uhhhh that thing is a FWD?... ew, are they trying to make a VW version of Celica?? and perhaps a two door Acura TL?? FWD SUCKS!

 

But that thing looks good... make it RWD tho

[PURIST]

Stupid.

 

The SVX wasn't the problem, as a whole. Details were the problem.

 

Flat front end. Not bad. Not charismatic, though. Certainly shows it's age.

 

Old school dash with a covered radio console. (I hate doors that always are open because what is behind them is actually useful)

 

No Manual transmission. Big mistake. AWD not standard until later. It wasn't seen as a performance car, but a cruiser. Cruisers sell to a different clientele, with a lot less tendency to buy a contraversial car.

 

Braking and drivetrain reliability issues. Solvable, but hard on an otherwise contraversially styled car. Does not build the best reputation.

 

Car was a bit big, again goes to the cruiser role. The Porsche 928 was being put out to pasture, as well as the 3000GT and Stealth at the same time as the SVX was trying to go into the market, SUVs were going great guns, and the Outback was picking up the alternative-to-an-SUV role. Coupes were on the outs in all markets and brands.

 

So. Fix the problems, take into account the differing market conditions, and a subaru SPORT touring coupe could do well. Not exactly the SVX's original form or role, but a new and improved resurrection.

 

Use the Legacy Sedan platform. Parts sharing can help here, and it is a good platform, with performance drivetrain already in place, and the H6TT would be a blockbuster for a performance coupe. Porsche proves that at $120k. 2.5Turbo and 3.0R H6 to round out the engine options, 250hp in either base configuration. Good place to start, going up to 400 with the H6TT.

 

The Legacy platform solves most of the weight and size problem. Not overly large, not overly heavy, but big enough to be a really useable coupe with performance and long legs.

 

Manual transmissions. Already there. 5MT and 6MT, as well as the 5EAT sport shifted automatic are naturals for this role, with 65% rear AWD bias. Better than 4-speed auto that the SVX was limited to.

 

Solve the interior. Subaru is already there, too. the Legacy interior looks GREAT compared to previous Subaru interiors, SVX included. Another step forward in the same direction (replaceable stereo, or at least Aux in) and the three-knob LCD climate control, EL guages, steering wheel audio controls... it is right on the cusp.

 

Styling. Subaru is getting much better at that, as well. The legacy is handsome, and on the verge of being actually agressive.

 

The three grille theme could work. Set lower on the front, with no or a very thin intake below it. dont' make three peices to the upper grille. Make three grilles ALL that there is. Like the Alfa 8C competizione, or Bugatti Veyron. Very doable.

 

Do coke-bottle fenders, with some sleek headlights. A sleek glasshouse, with swan-wing doors, (window-in-a-window, of course... for the bloodline) reverse rear half doors, and a wide fastback hatch.

 

Take cues from the general form of the Ford Iosis european concept car.

 

Make it sexy, make it powerful, make it perform as good as it looks. With all of that, AWD, and enough room inside to actually be a car that people can drive, and drive well, every day. It will sell. Especially if advertized better than the Legacy has been. Guilt-free, useable performance, and good looks to boot.

 

IF you want a hot hatch, a lightweight car in the 22B/2.5RS tradition, that would be a WRX impreza coupe, lighter, stiffer, and Rally-ready. Sexier-looking than a sedan, but just as capable. That should also exist.

 

 

So you're saying that without drastic changes to the SVX (legy chasis, extreme exterior revamp) there's no way it'd fly. I agree. They can call it what they want; there is a 2 door market, but it won't be an SVX. They are not going to spend millions of dollars on a brand new high performance engine just to put it on a car that is a proven "loser".

[IwannaSportSedan]

No, you are correct. Going BACK to the decade old SVX would not fly. It is now an older chassis, has been out of production for a long time, and is not coming back.

 

However. What I was suggesting above, is a Legacy based Sporty, high-performance, Grand Touring Coupe. (although if it has rx8-style doors and a hatch it would technically be a 5 door, and not a "coupe" in the strictest sense, which is literally a "two-door")

 

I suggested pushing the Styling envelope a bit, and calling it the SVX again, as a ressurection of the nameplate, with a newly designed car. I liked the fact that the SVX was unique with it's wide window glass, and window-in-a-window roll-downs... It was something unique. Unfortunately other aspects that I mentioned earlier pushed the car over the edge of acceptance.

 

The Corrado pic pushes the styling envelope a little bit, but Subaru can do better, and slightly bigger for a Legacy-based coupe. Corrado would be more of a competitor to an Impreza WRX-based coupe, anyway. But of note, is the AWD 250hp version rumor. I don't see VAG doing RWD. They are pretty much entirely FWD or AWD now.

 

Subaru needs to consider the competition. The Rule of the SUV is waning, and the coupe market is popping up again, especially with unique and useable cars.

[PURIST]

I agree with everything you have to say except them calling it an SVX.

[Tony117s]

No, you are correct. Going BACK to the decade old SVX would not fly. It is now an older chassis, has been out of production for a long time, and is not coming back.

 

However. What I was suggesting above, is a Legacy based Sporty, high-performance, Grand Touring Coupe. (although if it has rx8-style doors and a hatch it would technically be a 5 door, and not a "coupe" in the strictest sense, which is literally a "two-door")

 

I suggested pushing the Styling envelope a bit, and calling it the SVX again, as a ressurection of the nameplate, with a newly designed car. I liked the fact that the SVX was unique with it's wide window glass, and window-in-a-window roll-downs... It was something unique. Unfortunately other aspects that I mentioned earlier pushed the car over the edge of acceptance.

 

The Corrado pic pushes the styling envelope a little bit, but Subaru can do better, and slightly bigger for a Legacy-based coupe. Corrado would be more of a competitor to an Impreza WRX-based coupe, anyway. But of note, is the AWD 250hp version rumor. I don't see VAG doing RWD. They are pretty much entirely FWD or AWD now.

 

Subaru needs to consider the competition. The Rule of the SUV is waning, and the coupe market is popping up again, especially with unique and useable cars.

i never stated putting the motor in the old svx, i said they should design a new one

[PURIST]

A new one with the same name? Why does that make sense to you. If it is a totally new car than it's not an SVX. If it's on a legy chasis then it's not a SVX. The only reason car Manufacturers retro cars, is because those particular cars were very popular in thier time. Why would they revive a car that didn't sell. Trust me man I know, I'm not trying to argue with you for the sake of arguing. This is a rumor and speculation thread so I guess everybody is entitled to thier own opinion, but it's math, it's common sense. If they ever stop making wrx's there is a chance in the future that they revive the design and make another, but the SVX doesn't have enough meat on it's own to merit a redesign. If your arguement is that they will make a two door again, then ya,perhaps (not in the near future), but perhaps. Are they going to name it SVX NO, NEVER.

[Aczwild]

Subaru might want to consider a coupe or two. Others are...

 

http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/7852/scan8op.jpg

http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/2540/scan00010qg.jpg

OoooooooooooooooooooOOooOOoOOoooo too bad it will be FWD based, swap it to RWD or AWD and they have a w1nnAr!

[agctr]

I think the idea and the concept behind a coupe Liberty/Legacy would fly much better than trying to rebirth SVX. The nameplate isnt all that bad if you think about it as it keeps in line I suppose with the WRX. Japan loves using the 3 letter code for their cars and Subaru have certainly joined by jumping right in. Prehaps LVX ????

 

A Coupe AWD Concept with H6TT PWR would certainly raise a lot of eyebrows and enable Subaru to really tackle the 2 Door Market in Japan, Europe and America. Quality and Quanity (HP wise) wouldnt be a question, it would more come down to style and feel. I think its certainly a possibility but then again would this be a run of the mill Subaru car or would it be another STi only option.

Food for thought.

Ada///M.

[IwannaSportSedan]

OK... I wasn't getting heated here, and I hope i didn't raise people's ire. I was agreeing with Tony117s, and just wanted to clarify that it was a name thing, not a resurrection of the old chassis.

 

I think you guys were getting a little more wrapped up in the naming of the car than I was. I like the name SVX, and thought it would be a nice tie in to resurrect it... if you guys don't like the name, or don't think it should be used on a new car... that is fine.

 

I just want 'em to build it. I would buy it. If they build it after I buy a legacy, I might even trade it... I really wish the Legacy had more versatility in having folding rear seats in the sedan... a 5 door sedan (like mazda 6) would be even better, and an RX8-competetive coupe that I suggested above would be the best.

 

The thing is... I can understand why Subaru felt burned by the SVX, and it has as much to do with the death of the coupe market in the mid-late 90's, as it did with the SVX's drawbacks. Mazda and Toyota haven't even come back with new RX7s or Supras yet, even though Nissan took the leap with the 350Z/G35c.

 

They came in on the bigger SUV game late with the Tribeca. It is selling, but not as well as some would have hoped, and SUVs as a whole are tanking, due to high running costs, and poor performance. (especially as good handling AWD cars arrive, with all the traction, and none of the detriments of an SUV.) which is the opposite of what was going on when SUVs crushed the coupe market.

 

If subaru waits, and doesn't develop a coupe, or a pair of them, they are going to be left behind, and left on the sideline yet again, as personal, somewhat practical, attractive, and reasonable coupes come back on the market.

 

Subaru needs to forge ahead, which is why people are suggesting the 3.0TT powerplant as a performance engine, or it will continue to be left behind the market with a 1% share, cost cutting, and an also-ran brand image. (I want them to do well. that is why I suggest all this...)

[PURIST]

Well when you start a response by calling people stupid that usually means you have a disagreement.

[SubieDriver]

Well when you start a response by calling people stupid that usually means you have a disagreement.

 

I don't think he was calling any PERSON stupid. He was saying the idea of NOT bringing back the SVX was stupid. Not the original SVX, but a new sport-coupe (B11S) in the spirit of the SVX.

 

Bringing that here would be a good idea, and that would sell. It would be stupid not to try it.

 

Even if they didn't sell large numbers, it would be a great halo car for the rest of the fleet.

 

Just my 3 cents.

Tim

[IwannaSportSedan]

SubieDriver is correct, and I am sorry if I upset you, Purist. That was not my intent, and I should have been clearer. My disagreement is with Subaru's product planners, not members on this forum.

 

I thought my continuing on to describe what was wrong, and what could be done better with Subaru's coupe was enough to identify that as the topic that I thought to be stupid, not comments made by members here. I should have spelled it out further.

 

I think it is "stupid" that SOA, and Fuji Heavy Industries is not selling, and seems to have no plans to sell a coupe, or coupe-like body style car.

 

They had the SVX, which was a unique car (a rare adjective, anymore) with some niggles, and really bad timing on the market. It was WAY better than the old XT wedge, in terms of looks, though. They had the Impreza 2.5RS coupe that should have been a WRX coupe. (even without the turbo, the GC8 2.5RS is still considered a top-notch "used performance car", which does say something.) which also had bad market timing. Both were good cars for what they were, even if we can identify where they could have been tweeked to be significantly better.

 

I badly want something to come out in that vein. I looked at RX8. Interesting idea, but not far enough. it tries to be a practical sports car, but it guzzles gas, drinks oil, and still has no hatch or folding rear seats, RWD is dicey in the winter, and the styling is odd, rather than interesting.

 

I looked into a used M3, two or four doors. Older, showing age, and off warranty means expensive to maintain. Good car, but is it really going to be a daily slogger for many more years, considering they are already at least 6 years old for the E36. E46 M3s are nice, but even more expensive, and just as dicey in the winter.

 

A4. 1.8T Quattro 5MT is just barely in my pricerange. Reliability ultimately scared me away.

 

G35x has no manual trans, all G35s have iffy interiors, and again are stretching the affordability envelope. I could probably survive a G35c 6MT... if it has fold down rear seats. Not sure if anyone would be able to ride in the back seats, though...

 

Everything else is FWD, or faux-wheel-drive (rear-wheel assist) or doesn't have a manual trans. available.

 

A Subaru AWD GT Coupe, with 2.5T, 3.0R, or 3.0TT engines, manual or Sport Shift trans choice, useable back seats that fold down, rearward half doors like RX8, and fastback hatchback for loading and looks (sleeker rear profile) with some style thrown in, would be very nearly perfect for me, aside from the Legacy Sedan getting fold down seats...

 

I think a car like that could give the notion of a coupe-like car a real shot-in-the-arm. Performance and practicality, hand in hand. What could be more perfect for Subaru to do? They already do it with a 4-door sedan, 5-door wagon, and all-road wagon, in the Legacy GT sedan, wagon, and Outback XT wagon, respectively. adding a sleeker coupe-like body to the lineup, as well as the 3.0TT powerplant, would just complete the Practical&Performance lineup that they've already started.

 

With a unique new shape, and an eye-catching look, even sleeker and cleaner than the B11S, it could actually draw in some buyers, who aren't even noticing the Subaru sales floors right now... People who are buying RX8s, G35 Coupes, Audi TT Quattros, GTOs, 330Ci, and wanting more usability from them, without sacrificing style or performance. It could possibly even draw sales even from sportier sedans like the IS350 and TL/TSX, and others, that leave drivers wanting more style and performance, but not sacrificing two of their occasionally used seats.

[PURIST]

Misunderstanding noted. I did see an rx8 looking prototype somewhere.

[Renesis8]

I personally do not think Subaru will go with the suicide doors like the RX-8. If they do, it'd have a really weird proportion, bad f/r balance, or cramped backseats. For anyone who sat in the back seats of n RX-8... they r really full sized seats.

 

Mazda made it possible with the compact size of the rotary engine, the engine sits behind the front axle, its pretty much mid-engine. If Subaru go with this idea, the car would have a long hood, long wheelbase.... basically a sedan. We dont want that

 

If they base the coupe on the Legacy, it'd be like the camry and solara... we dont want that either

 

There is no point to go for a 4 door sports coupe. 2 doors will be just fine for Subaru. Mazda did it to accompany the return of the rotary, to draw buyers to buy it.

 

I would be really interested in a *lighter* weight, AWD coupe if Subaru makes one, lets hope Subaru really consider going after the sports car market, horsepower level should be fine at around 250, just improve the handling by a lot, and give it characteristics of a sports car

 

A major challenge i see here is weight tho. with AWD and the weight of 2.5/3.0 engine, its hard to make it light weight.

 

Subaru should really look at the RX-8. well not becuase im a fan of it, but that car really combines practicality and performance, imagine an RX-8 with more horsepower and better gas milage....... style is subjective. It'd really be successful.

 

If they ever plan to make a coupe tho... first thing on the list is lose the ricey-ness of the STi style, and give it some elegance... as I said before, characteristics of a sports car. That would attract a whole new group of buyers.

 

*edit*, they do have a prototype with suicide doorshttp://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=61140

[SubieDriver]

*edit*, they do have a prototype with suicide doorshttp://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=61140

 

That's the B11S that's been fueling all the rumors for the last 3 years, since March 2003. It has a twin-turbo H6 putting out 400 hp, and it was a *running* prototype three years ago! How long does it take Subaru to get from a running prototype to production with that powerplant?

 

Also, I remember the press blurbs on the B11S clearly stated that it was in the *spirit* of the SVX. So bring it already SOA!!!!!!

 

Summer 2003 Drive Mag:

http://www.drive.subaru.com/Sum03_B11S.htm

Car Pages article from March 14, 2003:

http://www.carpages.ca/go/conceptcars/2003_subaru_b11s_concept.aspx

 

We're tired of rumors, just bring it!

[IwannaSportSedan]

+1 SubieDriver!

 

Renesis8, I agree with most of what you are saying... but I wasn't thinking that subaru needed to clone the RX8. The RX8 is a lightweight RWD sports car trying to be practical. I was thinking more along the lines of a high-performance GT car. There is a slight distinction...

 

I don't know that a Subaru concept (even if B11S comes to production) needs to be quite that small of a car as the RX8. I think it should have two full size rear seats, and the backs should fold flat. Wheelbase and weight similar to the Legacy GT sedan would not bother me. The SVX is probably bigger than that. A subaru AWD drivetrain is probably never going to be mid engine, unless it is somehow rear-mid, and driving a separate front axle, with half-shafts from the transmission to the rear wheels. But that is a different thing altogether.

 

That is why I suggest Subaru have two coupes. A larger, more spacious, more powerful GT coupe based on the Legacy hardpoints, and a smaller, lighter, more focused, smaller-engined-yet-potently-powerful, WRC-ready (or other motorsports, as well...) Impreza-based coupe.

 

The B11S is close, technically, to what I am suggesting, but is stylistically amiss.

http://www.subdriven.com/gallery/albums//Automobiles/Concept%20Cars%20and%20Design/B11S/007.jpg

http://www.subdriven.com/gallery/albums//Automobiles/Concept%20Cars%20and%20Design/B11S/010.jpg

http://www.subdriven.com/gallery/albums//Automobiles/Concept%20Cars%20and%20Design/B11S/011.jpg

 

First of all. The nose. BAD. Tribeca-Bad. This will put people off, and Subaru will be complaining that yet another car isn't selling, and again be soured on coupes, without realizing that they poisoned their own well.

 

The nose has too much of an underbite (bottom edge of the front air dam too far forward of the headlights, on a slope) The grille elements look like they were cut into the bumper with a knife, not actually integrated into the design. This is how three grilles can be integrated into a design...

 

http://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2003_fms_alfa8c_1.jpghttp://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2003_fms_alfa8c_2.jpg

 

Since Subie evidently has Alfa's former stylist, why doesn't the B11S look anywhere near as good as the Alfa 8C concept?

 

Other gripes about the B11S...

Ridge in the center of the hood. No good, too severe, goes with the bad nose.

Body cladding. Looks good on Outback, looks tacked on here. This car should have flared fenders. not fender flares stuck on.

 

Rear fender arches, and rear quarter windows need to be revisited. Neither are pleasing shapes, let alone together. I have seen upswept quarter windows done better. I'd like it better if they could somehow incorporate the Legacy Sedan's rear quarter window shape... That might take some trickery to get headroom from the rear door frame.

 

Hatch. Nice, could be bigger, and the angles on the rear glass could be better. I am thinking something sleeker than this car looks. with the steeper angle hatch, and the big rear quarter windows, this car almost looks like a full four-door anyway.

 

I am also thinking that the car should have more of a "canopy" look to the glasshouse. Blacked out, or flush-glass-over pillars, to integrate the windows, and glass roof (the concept actually does have that...) into one form.

 

I do like the headlights in general, I do like the flush door handles. I like the general size, but the stying could be much better, and NEEDS to be much better, in order to sell.

 

The Engine is there. 3.0TT. 400bhp. Running prototype. under the hood of that B11S concept car. It even has the 5EAT sport shift trans, with VTD AWD. That part has already made it to production in the Legacy/OB line.

 

Re-skin the B11S car with coke-bottle curves like the Alfa 8C, make it look like a jet fighter with a glass canopy look, give it a SMG/Manual transmission option, and you've got it... I don't think a car that looks like the B11S concept, nor the B5-TPS concept will sell. Just too ugly, when people want sexy, like the Alfa is.

 

Shrink that better looking formula down to three doors, shorter wheelbase, and generally a bit smaller and lighter, and a tad more race-inspired, and you've got a kickin' Impreza-line sport coupe,with either the 2.0 Twin-scroll turbo, or the 2.5 Turbo engines. (WRC homologation with the 2.0, ya know...)

A Coupe like that would go well along with the coming re-design of the Impreza/WRX sedan, wagon, and eventual Forester, onto said shortened Legacy chassis.

[Renesis8]

I agree with you on the styling, the front is a mess, tribeca bad, and the back is aztec bad, they sure put all the elements from the uglist cars on the road to create this concept car.

 

Styling aside 400hp is great, but with this mechanical layout, they need to either make it a super sedan or shorten the wheel base and base it make a shorter coupe, also give it better balance... I agree on you on the 2 coupes idea, right now the B11S is like a concept stuck in between.

 

I m leaning more over on the super sedan side tho, the heavy weight of the TT 3.0H + AWD.... and also Subaru has always been fighting the European market, if they make a super sedan, it'll be competing with the M5. Some might say thats out of reach, but if they make a car with 400hp, they are not competing with A4s, G35s and TL...

 

Well this kinda bring back to the original topic of the post.... Legacy with H6 TT... as much as we want a coupe from Subaru I think its still pretty far away... But i'd be really happy with a super sedan~ or coupish sedan with suicide doors

 

Now for the B11S.. keep the sucicide doors and extend the rear and lose the Aztec back. I really love the suicide doors on the B11S, they look a lot nicer than the ones on RX8

 

Oh and the exhaust.... Mazda kinda used that and cloned it onto the MSP6 =D

 

I also agree with you on the 3 door version, that'd kick some serious butts

[PURIST]

I love the suicide doors on my RX8, the thing I really needed to get used to is the front fenders. I really favor the styling now and if you guys have never driven one you have to go on a test drive. It is more responsive than anything I've ever driven. The car does lack lower end torque but it sure makes it up in 9thousand rpm redline shifts. At 65+ it keeps up with anything, I did with an Elise.

[OCDetails]

Does their alpha stylist know that he isn't designing alphas anymore? Someone kick him in the balls and tell him to stop designing shit. That is the ugliest car I have ever seen. No...wait. The Aztec is the ugliest car I have ever seen. This comes close though.

[SubieDriver]

Does their alpha stylist know that he isn't designing alphas anymore? Someone kick him in the balls and tell him to stop designing shit. That is the ugliest car I have ever seen. No...wait. The Aztec is the ugliest car I have ever seen. This comes close though.

 

Actually, IIRC, the B11S and B9 Scrambler were designed before Andreas Zapatinas made the jump from Alfa Romeo.

 

Maybe Andreas saw those designs and figured Subaru was paying homage to him, so he got a little egotistical and decided to come to Subaru and make Subaru's entire model line match.

 

But then, I'm just starting rumors.

 

Tim

[keith05legacyGT]

Well I guess I am definitely in the minority, but I like both vehicles pictured above with only minor tweaks to the Subaru design....but then again I have always liked Alfas (except the montreal). Give me an old GTV 2000 anyday *drool*

[psucaptainkickass]

Oh and the exhaust.... Mazda kinda used that and cloned it onto the MSP6 =D

 

Actually, Mazda screwed it up. Upon closer inspection, yes, they have a large opening, but it really is a ring molded in the plastic. The actual exhaust tip is in the center of the ring, and it is the same size as the regular 6's exhaust. I noticed this when I did my MS6 test drive this week, and you can only notice it upclose, since the tip is a little recessed from the lines of the bumper.

 

On a side note, the MS6 has an armrest just like the JDM/EDM Subie Armrest extention. Its a lid that has a lid on it, so you have two compartments.

 

I like how Mazda copied off Subaru...the car even does the gauge sweep.

[agctr]

By the last pics that IWSS just posted up, I would agree that the rear looks very MPS like. Compared to my MY01 shape, the shape has certainly grown and could do with a bit more rounding. Mazda with their current range have really taken leaps and bounds and have pressed Subaru to really look hard at their interior/exterior designs. But what also impresses ppl above and beyond a nice pew, is a sensation engine, in power, torque, grunt and overall sound. If Subaru were to release a 3.0TT engine, I personally believe that Subaru would certainly have the rest of the package to mate it to.

Ada///M.

 

PS. Unsure if anyone has checked out the rear tails on the MPS but they are SO wrong. They are integrated into the rear like the Subaru pics above but on the MPS its only the tips that are intergrated, thru them comes this tiny exhaust. IMHO, it just looks wrong especially with such an aggressive rearend.