Steering squirrely at 50 mph and above

[Beamercub]

Okay so has anyone found a fix to this or any positive input from taking it into the dealership and having the squirreliness stopped? Having the same issue and I have the 20mm STI RSB and bushings. I'm on Prova Sport Lowering springs as well. I do alot of Highway driving and have alot of squirreliness in the front as well. been debating getting the front strut bar from SSD but wanted to see if anyone had found a solution, besides taking it to the dealer haha.

 

 

I feel your pain.. My car is all over the road.. It's a very unsettling feeling to be traveling perfectly straight down the road.. And then for no reason with no movement of the steering wheel for the car to start floating either left or right.. Causing me to microscopically correct it to maintain somewhat of my intended path. It is enough to drive a person ******* nuts. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. I also understand that people have never had this issue with their cars.. NEITHER have I, with any other car I have owned. I'm really upset that I spent the amount of money I did on this car. I'm not going to let this issue go.. Depending on what I hear from SOA I'm more than likely going to the news networks in my area and pushing this issue.. Heck, I'll get Ralph Nader involved, lol.... I don't even know what would leave me feeling satisfied at this point.. I don't want another Subaru.. A refund of what I paid and a TSB created on the issue would be a start.

[hkshooter]

^ Have you driven another Legacy? Did it do the same thing? Your car could be a dud adn a replacement could be solid as a rock.

[chowser51]

Stiffer sidewalls? Anyone try runflats on the Legacy yet? I'm at 41k miles and will need tires come spring.

The Continental runflats I had on my BMW sucked. The BFG runflats I had on the other BMW were much better.

[jchorn]

My 2016 Legacy 2.5i Limited also has the same steering problem that others have reported. My previous car was a 2012 VW Tiguan which had electric steering, so I was pretty much use to the steering and handling of that car. At first I thought since the car and tires are new I would wait awhile and see if the steering would improve after putting more miles on the tires. I brought my car in for the steering column recall and also had them check and balance the tires, but the steering problem was still there. I had to make constant corrections of the steering wheel in order to stay between the lines on the highway. At my first service appointment (30K) they rotated the tires and ever since then the problem is gone. The car tracks straight as it should be. I now have 4635 miles on the car and will have to see what happens when they rotate the tires next time to see if the steering problem returns.

[hkshooter]

My 2016 Legacy 2.5i Limited also has the same steering problem that others have reported. My previous car was a 2012 VW Tiguan which had electric steering, so I was pretty much use to the steering and handling of that car. At first I thought since the car and tires are new I would wait awhile and see if the steering would improve after putting more miles on the tires. I brought my car in for the steering column recall and also had them check and balance the tires, but the steering problem was still there. I had to make constant corrections of the steering wheel in order to stay between the lines on the highway. At my first service appointment (30K) they rotated the tires and ever since then the problem is gone. The car tracks straight as it should be. I now have 4635 miles on the car and will have to see what happens when they rotate the tires next time to see if the steering problem returns.

 

Interesting.

 

Welcome to the forums.

[andrew_l_s]

Stiffer sidewalls? Anyone try runflats on the Legacy yet? I'm at 41k miles and will need tires come spring.

The Continental runflats I had on my BMW sucked. The BFG runflats I had on the other BMW were much better.

 

That might be a bit of an extreme jump in stiffness:lol:

 

If they can be had for a good price I'd say go for it.

[hkshooter]

^ Have you driven another Legacy? Did it do the same thing? Your car could be a dud adn a replacement could be solid as a rock.

 

Hmmm, complete silence.

[andrew_l_s]

Hmmm, complete silence.

 

Surprise, surprise:rolleyes:

 

Probably don't wanna admit it's a case of PEBSWAS:lol:

 

http://cheezburger.com/6413899520

[hkshooter]

^ Girl friend complained of an issue with her car once. I told her it was probably the loose nut behind the wheel. Ten minutes later she slapped me.

[andrew_l_s]

^ Girl friend complained of an issue with her car once. I told her it was probably the loose nut behind the wheel. Ten minutes later she slapped me.

 

DEAD:lol::lol:

[Bigkanz]

Hmmm, complete silence.

 

^ Have you driven another Legacy? Did it do the same thing? Your car could be a dud adn a replacement could be solid as a rock.

 

I have driven plenty of them

[hkshooter]

I have driven plenty of them

 

Great! So, lacking any further information, should we assume that all of the Legacies you've driven have had the anomaly?

[Beamercub]

^ Have you driven another Legacy? Did it do the same thing? Your car could be a dud adn a replacement could be solid as a rock.

 

A buddy of mine has a 2016 Outback 3.6 R.. He bought it new and I have had his car for extended periods of time.. I love the way his car drives, rides like it is on rails.. There is no play in the steering wheel, it's dead on. With my car it feels almost as if a dead spot lives when the wheel is dead center, lol.. "If that makes any sense".. Having a front wheel bearing replaced at 15k, could be a reason? Maybe the other bearing is bad as well?

[hkshooter]

A buddy of mine has a 2016 Outback 3.6 R.. He bought it new and I have had his car for extended periods of time.. I love the way his car drives, rides like it is on rails.. There is no play in the steering wheel, it's dead on. With my car it feels almost as if a dead spot lives when the wheel is dead center, lol.. "If that makes any sense".. Having a front wheel bearing replaced at 15k, could be a reason? Maybe the other bearing is bad as well?

 

I've driven vehicles with that "dead spot" in the middle of the steering and it sucks. Usually there's a problem with the alignment or the rack and pinion gear that causes it. A bad wheel bearing could cause a similar symptom I suppose but one would think by the time the bearing got so bad that it caused steering problems it would be growling so loud it would have been spotted long before the steering issues started.

There may be a problem with the power steering gear box in your car that's leading up to the problems. What I don't get is why the dealer hasn't found it yet, or why SOA hasn't demanded the dealer look into it. All they'd have to do is put the car on a lift and try turning the front steering gear back and forth by hand. If there's slop in it, they'd feel it.

My own car as well as many others here drive like your friends OB, rock solid.

 

Have they looked into the rear end of the car? I had a high mile Toyota that had worn out lower link ends. This allowed the rear tire to to move, toe in, toe out, at random. The thing would get a side to side wobble going that had to be humorous to see because it wanted to steer the car from the rear, all over the road. Replacing the lower link rods and an alignment fixed it but it drove me nuts for a few weeks until I figured it out.

[08SpecB_DE]

A buddy of mine has a 2016 Outback 3.6 R.. He bought it new and I have had his car for extended periods of time.. I love the way his car drives, rides like it is on rails.. There is no play in the steering wheel, it's dead on. With my car it feels almost as if a dead spot lives when the wheel is dead center, lol.. "If that makes any sense".. Having a front wheel bearing replaced at 15k, could be a reason? Maybe the other bearing is bad as well?

 

I may have missed it but have you posted an alignment spec sheet? Does the vehicle track straight down the road? I'm with hkshooter's mindset of thinking it may be alignment related.

[Beamercub]

If any of you are making multi-inch corrections left and right to keep your Legacy going straight down the road, and if all you are doing about it is chatting online, you are putting yourself at great risk.

 

Legacies do NOT behave that way. Your car has a serious safety issue, and you should bring your car in for repairs immediately.

 

THANK YOU! This has to be the best post on this subject I have seen thus far. I know I'm not crazy and not alone with my steering issues. I want to love my car, but driving it has become exhausting on the highway. My mother drove my car for the first time on the highway and afterwards she said it was the scariest car to drive in her life! That she had a death grip on the wheel the whole time! I'm starting to think this is a bigger issue than we realize. And that it is directly related to inferior parts.. Specifically bearings. I have been in contact with SOA. I'm wondering what the outcome was for the OP?

[Beamercub]

Anyone know what the OP ended up doing?

[tigger73]

Anyone know what the OP ended up doing?

 

Nothing other than taking to the dealer and complaining about it. You wonder why people post up sometimes. Whether they actually want to fix the problem or just want a place to vent their frustrations and find others with the same problem to share their misery.

 

Anyway if you're having issues I'd strongly suggest you get a good wheel alignment done, inflate tyres 2-3psi higher than "recommended" and install a beefier rear sway bar (OEM 20mm is good).

 

Your car may be within "factory spec" in which case the dealership probably won't touch it (for free anyway) so you're going to have to put your hand in your pocket and get it sorted yourself like a number of others have.

 

And yes we all agree that you shouldn't have to do this but the reality of the situation is that it's far less painful and waste a lot less of your time just to bite the bullet and spend the few hundred $ to get the fixes done to your car than to drive around something that is potentially unsafe.

 

Legalities aside if you're driving something that you know is unsafe and don't do anything about it then you're as much at fault as the manufacturer that made it.

[n2oiroc]

new guy here, been lurking a while and wanted to finally chime in. im very mechanically inclined (i fix industrial machinery for a living and can fix nearly anything on cars) and have been a car nut since i was a kid. i also have a 2016 wrx and an 03 evo and i have a bit of road course experience so im not your average no nothing idiot.

 

i have one of the wandering legacys. i have driven a couple 2015+ legacys when mine was in for warranty work. they did not wander as bad as mine.

 

i have a 20mm rear sway bar and the stock goodyears were pulled off when i bought the car and it has 225/50R18 pilot super sports on it in summer and 225/55R17 conti si's for winter. even with the pilot super sports (great handling summer tire) it still wanders a lot.

 

it honestly doesnt feel like its the steering rack. it feels like bad/soft bushings in the rear. i will be going to my friends alignment shop soon and seeing how the alignment looks and to see what he can do to get it to not handle like a fridge on rollerskates at 70+ mph. i have zero interest in the dealer aligning it. as others have pointed out, if its in the green they call it good. thats not correct. i dont feel the car is unsafe to drive, but something is off and i have never had a car that took so much random correction to keep in its lane. i can drive my wrx in a tornado with 1 finger on the wheel.

[hkshooter]

^ Let us know what you find. I've been watching for a while to see what the problem is with these cars with no satisfaction.

[XT-sub]

... i will be going to my friends alignment shop soon and seeing how the alignment looks and to see what he can do to get it to not handle like a fridge on rollerskates at 70+ mph.

...

... but something is off and i have never had a car that took so much random correction to keep in its lane.

 

I too have been following this topic with interest. I would be very interested in your ‘as found’ alignment figures. Especially the rear camber of each wheel & rear toe-in of each wheel, but also front toe-in, front camber & thrust angle, obviously with a full tank of fuel.

 

I’m used to the way Subarus steer (this is our 5th Subaru) & even though our Liberty isn’t as bad as reported by some, it isn’t right, in particular the tracking on a good highway surface at around 110kph. I'm fairly certain electric power assist isn’t the problem (with our car anyway), & our last Subaru had electric power assist so we are used to it. The 19mm STi rear sway bar makes no difference whatsoever to the tracking over the stock 16mm (as I expected).

 

Higher tyre pressures than the recommended makes the situation worse & much lower pressures improves the situation – in fact drop the pressures low enough (much too low) & the problem can be eliminated. This to me indicates too much negative camber, but I could be wrong. The car has perfect turn-in, handling & steering on all other roads conditions. I normally run 1psi higher tyre pressure cold than the recommended.

 

I’ve tried different front toe with a full tank of fuel (from toe-in to toe-out & now at 0º toe). A fair bit of front toe out improved the situation slightly but I’m pretty sure tyre wear would be too high. So far except for checking the other settings I haven’t made any other changes.

 

I agree about what feels like soft bushes at the rear. I know the suspension for the Australian spec models are tuned for our roads & the 2016 is different to the 2015, so all isn’t equal, but I feel the rear end isn’t damped enough. This is obvious when leaving a bridge back onto the road where the change is uneven – the car seems to squirm at the rear. The 19mm rear bar improved this a bit.

 

I notice the current model Outback has less camber specs than the Liberty (Legacy). Different ride height, suspension, rims & tyres but a quick search hasn’t turned up the problems like on the Legacy. One plus for the Legacy is more caster.

 

I would like to see the alignment settings for the cars having this problem & the cars that don’t have this problem for comparison.

[n2oiroc]

I too have been following this topic with interest. I would be very interested in your ‘as found’ alignment figures. Especially the rear camber of each wheel & rear toe-in of each wheel, but also front toe-in, front camber & thrust angle, obviously with a full tank of fuel.

 

I’m used to the way Subarus steer (this is our 5th Subaru) & even though our Liberty isn’t as bad as reported by some, it isn’t right, in particular the tracking on a good highway surface at around 110kph. I'm fairly certain electric power assist isn’t the problem (with our car anyway), & our last Subaru had electric power assist so we are used to it. The 19mm STi rear sway bar makes no difference whatsoever to the tracking over the stock 16mm (as I expected).

 

Higher tyre pressures than the recommended makes the situation worse & much lower pressures improves the situation – in fact drop the pressures low enough (much too low) & the problem can be eliminated. This to me indicates too much negative camber, but I could be wrong. The car has perfect turn-in, handling & steering on all other roads conditions. I normally run 1psi higher tyre pressure cold than the recommended.

 

I’ve tried different front toe with a full tank of fuel (from toe-in to toe-out & now at 0º toe). A fair bit of front toe out improved the situation slightly but I’m pretty sure tyre wear would be too high. So far except for checking the other settings I haven’t made any other changes.

 

I agree about what feels like soft bushes at the rear. I know the suspension for the Australian spec models are tuned for our roads & the 2016 is different to the 2015, so all isn’t equal, but I feel the rear end isn’t damped enough. This is obvious when leaving a bridge back onto the road where the change is uneven – the car seems to squirm at the rear. The 19mm rear bar improved this a bit.

 

I notice the current model Outback has less camber specs than the Liberty (Legacy). Different ride height, suspension, rims & tyres but a quick search hasn’t turned up the problems like on the Legacy. One plus for the Legacy is more caster.

 

I would like to see the alignment settings for the cars having this problem & the cars that don’t have this problem for comparison.

 

i agree with most of that and feel its all in the rear too. i dont think camber is the issue though. my old brz has -2.4 degrees in the rear and it tracked great. toe is usually the enemy when it comes to ill handling traits. either way, he isnt your average alignment guy. people come to him from 200 miles away to set up their autocross cars because of his reputation. he has guessed within a tenth of a degree what rear toe and camber will do when i sit in my car vs it sitting there static. i hop in the car and the #'s land exactly where he said they would.

[n2oiroc]

also, if it ends up that the culprit looks like too soft of bushings in the lateral links or something. they can be easily firmed up.

 

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/diymmi

[XT-sub]

i agree with most of that and feel its all in the rear too. i dont think camber is the issue though. my old brz has -2.4 degrees in the rear and it tracked great. toe is usually the enemy when it comes to ill handling traits.

 

2.4º negative rear camber is a fair bit, by my measurements I’m getting RL -1º38'24" & RR -1º45'00" as accurate as I can measure it, but I didn’t have anyone in the driver’s seat. Your BRZ was rear wheel drive vs virtually front wheel drive for the Legacy (well about 60:40 F:R split which is mainly driving on the front when cruising using ACC except when more power is applied – going by ActiveOBD).

 

I agree about toe causing the issue to some extent which is why I tackled the front toe to start with & I believe front wheel drive cars should have slight front toe out. I’ve been in two minds to tackle rear camber or rear toe next, but I don’t like the difference in RL to RR camber, & I think it is too much negative anyway. I’m still guessing my rear camber has a lot to do with it.

 

For reference, my settings by my measurements & calcs:

Front:

Toe adjusted to 0º from original toe-in.

Camber measured at FL -0º13'48" & FR -0º13'48".

Rear:

Toe-in measured at RL +0º3'36" & RR +0º3'36" = +0º7'12" total sum toe-in.

Camber measured at RL -1º38'24" & RR -1º45'00".

Thrust angle (centreline difference measured at 1.0mm). Note: less than 0º30′ when centreline difference is 23 mm or less (should be 0º with tolerance of +/- 0º30').

Diagonal tyre footprint centre to centre measured within 5mm.

 

Legacy specs from the 2015 SM: (confirmed for my Liberty)

Front:

Toe-in: 0mm +/- 3mm (0.00" +/- 0.12"). Toe angle (sum of both wheels): 0º00' +/- 0º15'

Camber: -0º15' (tolerance: +/- 0º45'. Differences between RH & LH: 45' or less)

Caster: 5º50' (referential value)

Steering angle: Inner wheel: 37.6º Outer wheel: 32.8º (tolerance: +/- 1.5º)

Kingpin angle: 13º55' (referential value)

Track: 1580mm

Rear:

Toe-in: 3mm +/- 3mm (0.12" +/- 0.12"). Toe angle (sum of both wheels): 0º15' +/- 0º15'

Camber: -1º25' (tolerance: +/- 0º45'. Differences between RH & LH: 45' or less)

Thrust angle: 0º (tolerance: +/- 0º30')

Track: 1595mm

Wheelbase: 2750mm

 

Edit: See here for post of alignment specs with additional info.

 

It sounds like you have a good aligner who knows his stuff.

 

If it was the bushes being too soft I would expect to see a lot of issues, not just the few that we are reading about.

 

Since I posted my last post I did come across some gen5 Outback wandering posts which seemed to be fixed by either a wheel alignment or better tyres. I realise you have tried different tyres but I haven’t swapped the original tyres front to rear yet to see what difference that makes if any.

 

Have you noticed the wandering worse with a load in the back or without any load?

[n2oiroc]

2.4º negative rear camber is a fair bit, by my measurements I’m getting RL -1º38'24" & RR -1º45'00" as accurate as I can measure it, but I didn’t have anyone in the driver’s seat. Your BRZ was rear wheel drive vs virtually front wheel drive for the Legacy (well about 60:40 F:R split which is mainly driving on the front when cruising using ACC except when more power is applied – going by ActiveOBD).

 

I agree about toe causing the issue to some extent which is why I tackled the front toe to start with & I believe front wheel drive cars should have slight front toe out. I’ve been in two minds to tackle rear camber or rear toe next, but I don’t like the difference in RL to RR camber, & I think it is too much negative anyway. I’m still guessing my rear camber has a lot to do with it.

 

For reference, my settings by my measurements & calcs:

Front:

Toe adjusted to 0º from original toe-in.

Camber measured at FL -0º13'48" & FR -0º13'48".

Rear:

Toe-in measured at RL +0º3'36" & RR +0º3'36" = +0º7'12" total sum toe-in.

Camber measured at RL -1º38'24" & RR -1º45'00".

Diagonal tyre footprint centre to centre measured within 5mm.

 

Legacy specs from the 2015 SM: (confirmed for my Liberty)

Front:

Toe-in: 0mm +/-3mm (0.00" +/-0.12"). Toe angle (sum of both wheels): 0º00' +/-0º15'

Camber: -0º15' (tolerance: +/-0º45'. Differences between RH & LH: 45' or less)

Caster: 5º50' (referential value)

Steering angle: Inner wheel: 37.6º Outer wheel: 32.8º (tolerance: 1.5º)

Kingpin angle: 13º55' (referential value)

Track: 1580mm

Rear:

Toe-in: 3mm +/-3mm (0.12" +/-0.12"). Toe angle (sum of both wheels): IN 0º15' +/-0º15'

Camber: -1º25' (tolerance: +/-0º45'. Differences between RH & LH: 45' or less)

Thrust angle: 0º (tolerance: +/-0º30')

Track: 1595mm

Wheelbase: 2750mm

 

It sounds like you have a good aligner who knows his stuff.

 

If it was the bushes being too soft I would expect to see a lot of issues, not just the few that we are reading about.

 

Since I posted my last post I did come across some gen5 Outback wandering posts which seemed to be fixed by either a wheel alignment or better tyres. I realise you have tried different tyres but I haven’t swapped the original tyres front to rear yet to see what difference that makes if any.

 

Have you noticed the wandering worse with a load in the back or without any load?

 

well my wrx has -1.7 camber in the rear and it tracks great. rear camber isnt adjustable without spending $200 on lower arms anyways. im alone in the car 95% of the time and never really carry any loads with the exception of towing a small utility trailer occasionally and thats only at low speed so i cant say. the rear toe needs to be negative for sure on these as the rear suspension toes out as the suspension compresses. hit a good dip at high speed with zero or positive toe and you suddenly have a lot of positive toe and squirrley handling. generally autocross guys go for toe out on the rear for better rotation and cars that need high speed stability have a bit of toe in. when i finally get over to his shop, ill get a baseline and load the rear with weight and see how much positive toe there really is.