Steering squirrely at 50 mph and above

[Yoda_One]

@Bones37

This is an area of contention the SSD was a very popular upgrade on older models because of flexing in the front of the vehicle but Subaru address this issue with the latest generation of Legacy and Outback.

Subaru has made the frame structurally stronger and the SSD bar is more of a bragging device with very little if any benefit in handling but the ones who install the bar love the looks.(To each their own). IMHO waste of practical $$$.

You can Google SSD Performance if you want to read about the bar.

 

RSB,......This is the discussion about Oversteer and Understand.

 

 

The rear sway bar on your vehicle is 16mm and fine for normal everyday driving by the masses letting the rear sway a little for more for ?comfort? and ?control? with "understeer".

For a sporter control with less sway and flatter dynamics because of decreases understeer ("oversteer") and a sport driving experience by increase the stiffness in the rear is a nice upgrade.Cost effective $$$.

You really notice the benefit on curves, on entering and exiting ramps and cornering.

The best bang for the buck is 20mm which I personally installed, 19mm is very popular and some move to adjusted bar around 22mm but you pay for this ability.

Now the installation, anybody can install this mod it takes about 15-30 minutes and you do not even have to jack up the vehicle just slide your F..A.. under the vehicle. [emoji38] I am old fart and if I can do this I guarantee you can.

 

Here are two informational links of threads about RSB with interesting comments, personal experiences and anecdotal comments.

 

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4890656

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4951474

[Yoda_One]

[emoji56] [emoji56] [emoji56]

Why write new, when @apexi said it all.

 

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5004996

[Yoda_One]

Here is the the great and powerful Moderator (GTEASER) explanation and as usual the best you can get.. I did some editing out to keep me from looking foolish.

 

 

 

. ... A manufacturer targets a market segment with the the most appealing features and one of those features is ride comfort. This is the place where the Legacy is positioned. Since they have STI and others for the sport enthusiast were ride stiffness and road feel is expected.

As you (Rowlette) said it a low cost accessory which installation is easy. Hats off to the engineers to make this an easy modification.

 

........It's not so much to do with ride quality or comfort as it is that the general public doesn't know how to drive or handle a car properly in an emergency situation, and the engineers take that into account. Since Subaru is no longer targeting the "enthusiast", and instead targeting the mediocre, utilitarian, uninspired mass public, it stands to reason that the handling of all but their "performance" cars would take mundane road manners into account. Manufacturers want vehicles to understeer. It's both a liability issue for them and 'perception' of comfort for the consumer. Imagine if they put a proper 22mm swaybar on the rear in stock form.....many people would find themselves cornering far beyond their driving abilities and, in an emergency situation, unable to call upon driving skill to truly enjoy the capabilities and prowess of the AWD car.

[Yoda_One]

Hopefully you received my PM since the last update to Tapatalk there have been so glitches with posting.

[OTKing]

I have a 2015 Subaru Legacy Limited 2.5 and my car wanders on the road at speeds above 35 or 40. I had the dealer check alignment, but since I did not receive a printout I suspect the alignment was not done, but it was checked and found ok. I have tried varying air tire pressure, highway lanes and did the checks on not windy days. The results are the – car almost has a mind of its own – Sometimes drifts left and sometimes right. The care does not turn left or right, but will stay centered in the lane about 5 or 10 seconds before drifting out of lane. Windy days can be much worse.

 

I had the car to the dealer about the problem 3 items and as always everything is good. I will soon have 15000 miles and will again take the car in for the same problem. I routinely do not drive this car on the interstate because it is work keeping it in the correct lane.

 

This is not a new problem on the forum. It seems many owners of 2015 Legacy with 17 inch wheels do not have the same problem. I checked the specs of my Goodyear LS2 tires and the tread width is 7.9 inches. The tread width of the 17 inch wheels is 7.1 inches. The difference in tread width can cause a condition called tramlining. This is similar to road wander. Are the alignment specs the same on Legacys with 17 and 18 inch tires?

 

I noticed a change on the 2016 Legacy was a “recalibration of power steering.” I don’t know what that means, but it may be associated with the car wander. I have driven many different cars in my 66 years and my cars wander is not normal.

 

I suspect the problem to be different widths of different tires, or alignment or power steering sensitivity. Most cars have a “dead spot” in the steering at the center point. The center point causes the car to drive straight assuming the road is in good condition, tires properly inflated etc. My car seems to drift left when moving the wheel the left a very small fraction of an inch (1/32 of a inch) and a small movement to the right causes an overcorrection to the right which causes another over correction. The car will immediately drift right or left if aligning car in center of a lane and removing hands and in 5 or 10 seconds the car will probably be out the lane.

 

I plan or returning the dealer in a month and will insist that action be taken to correct the problem.

 

Let me know if you have any additional information to add the discussion.

 

Thank you

[Bones37]

OTKing, you have perfectly described the wander I experience, but it's only noticeable on my vehicle on the highway. I have a 2016 Legacy 2.5i Limited, with 18" wheels and Goodyear Eagle LS2's. Per Goodyear's site, my 18" wheels have a rim width of 7.0", and my tires have a tread width of 9.2". Big difference, right? Source of problem?

Forum commenters have reported solving their similar problem by replacing the rear sway bar with a 19mm or 20mm bar which, at around $100, tempts me to replace mine to see if that helps.

The fact that dealers seem in the dark about this problem suggests to me that they don't understand what's causing it. Here's a link to a brief video I made to demonstrate how quickly the car steers away from straight-ahead. Kind of hard to get a real sense of the loss of tracking, but I made this in case a dealer's mechanic can't recreate the issue during a test drive.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomellis37/27660600140/in/dateposted-public/

 

If the underlying problem is the tires relative to the rims, then it's a shame I'm going to need to wait for the tires to need replacing: I only drive about 2500 miles/year. Not sure I want to spring for all new rubber for a car only 6 months old and no certainty that new rubber will fix the problem. Sadly, when faced with making a road trip, I would use my wife's old Caravan instead of my new Legacy.... I will report on impact of new rear sway bar if I elect to do that.

[Yoda_One]

I use to hear these same complaints when power steering first came to the masses.

[legacysteering]

Considering I have driven other cars with powering steering and not had this issue that is not the underlying reason. I am not sure what your comment is implying. This is a subjective complaint for now until an objective finding is elicited. Many people that are writing about this issue do not believe it has to do with the powering steering. I'd like to hear from others that have actual knowledge of the mechanics and perhaps any solutions or fixes.

[GicleeOneDotCom]

2016 2.5i Legacy Limited here also with the same wheels and tires and mine tracks beautifully on the highway. I typically use ACC set at 70 mph.

 

 

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[Yoda_One]

As you said it is subjective and many people do not have this issue. If you want a mechanic to give you an answer then you service center is your only recourse. So, best of luck "Live long and prosper".

 

Welcome to the forum, fill out your Profile, learn to use the search and have fun.

[legacysteering]

There was a recent recall for steering issues that could result in loss of ability to control the vehicle. If memory serves me correctly it had to do with mis-tooling of a machine that had to do with the steering. I wonder if there was other issues that could of lead to this problem we had with the wandering.

[Yoda_One]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5403096

[Yoda_One]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5408886

[ninjadogg]

At the risk of sounding stupid due to missing it in this thread (it is nearly 2am and I'm tired, ).... Has LKAS been an available and active feature for everyone with this issue? I haven't seen any mention of that, but also figured not everyone has EyeSight. Just a thought.

 

 

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[Bones37]

Ninjadogg: Thx. for the idea of seeing if the LKAS feature can help. I'm taking a road trip in a couple days and I'll play with this feature.

[ninjadogg]

Ninjadogg: Thx. for the idea of seeing if the LKAS feature can help. I'm taking a road trip in a couple days and I'll play with this feature.

 

NP. Have you been driving with it ON or OFF when you've experienced the issue?

[legacysteering]

I have tried driving with the feature on and off without any difference.

 

I feel the problem is related to not being able to center the steering wheel where the car will track straight. The Legacy has a "point and shoot" type of steering from what I am told, but the only problem is I cant find a place on the steering wheel where it will 'shoot' directly straight ahead.

 

Also, with regards to the steering the adjustments needed aren't minute. Meaning, with other cars I only have to adjust the steering wheel 1 cm LEFT/RIGHT to keep it going straight. On the Legacy I have to constantly adjust steering wheel by inches to LEFT/RIGHT to fight to keep car center.

 

I'd like to hear more from the user Bones to see his take on this.

[Bones37]

I have not been using the LKAS feature; frankly, I forgot all about it. A Subaru dealer posted a short video on YouTube about the feature, demonstrating how the car will, to some extent, steer the car back into the lane, so I know what to expect. I'm making a road trip this weekend, so will have a chance to see if using LKAS will help.

 

Others have reported success with replacing the rear sway bar with a 19mm or 20mm kit. I asked my dealer how much he'd charge to install one. (I know they're easy to replace, but recent neck and back surgeries have rendered me physically unable to lay on my back and do such an R&R.) The service mgr. told me they would not do such work for me; if I have tracking problems, I should bring the car in for an alignment (the dealer has already done that for me). I'm still contemplating getting the kit to see if $100 will solve my problem. What's discouraging is all of our dealers don't seem to be aware of this problem (which only a few of us have). If they don't know of the problem, then they are at a loss on how to address it.

 

In reponse to legacysteering's questions: You can see in the video I made (link in a post above) that when driving straight down the highway, I take my hands off the wheel and within 5 seconds or so, the car will start to drift, both right and left. If I didn't really bring it back, it'd be off the road or in the next lane within a few more seconds. Just like you said: the corrections needed are not minute. While I really love this car, this one flaw makes me regret buying it.

 

Some posters have suggested a possible cause being the difference between the width of the rim and the width of the tire tread. I have a 2016 Legacy 2.5i Limited, with 18" wheels and Goodyear Eagle LS2's. Per Goodyear's site, my 18" wheels have a rim width of 7.0", and my tires have a tread width of 9.2". If the sidewalls flex ever so slightly, wouldn't the car's tracking be affected? (This may be why some have recommended increasing the tire pressure.) It may be that there is nothing mechanically wrong with the car, with the solution being all new tires that have a narrower tread width. If that is the issue and the solution, it'd sure be nice if the dealer funded the solution.

 

It's somewhat comforting to know that others are struggling with the same problem...

[ammcinnis]

Some posters have suggested a possible cause being the difference between the width of the rim and the width of the tire tread.

 

That "suggestion" is simply not true for the OE wheels and tires. If it were the case, then all 2015-up Legacys with the same wheel/tire combination would exhibit the same behavior. They do not.

 

You can consult sources like TireRack.com to find the ideal "reference rim width" (a.k.a. "measured rim width") specified by the tire manufacturer for any given tire, as well as the allowable range of rim widths for proper fitment.

[hkshooter]

I have tried driving with the feature on and off without any difference.

 

I feel the problem is related to not being able to center the steering wheel where the car will track straight. The Legacy has a "point and shoot" type of steering from what I am told, but the only problem is I cant find a place on the steering wheel where it will 'shoot' directly straight ahead.

 

Also, with regards to the steering the adjustments needed aren't minute. Meaning, with other cars I only have to adjust the steering wheel 1 cm LEFT/RIGHT to keep it going straight. On the Legacy I have to constantly adjust steering wheel by inches to LEFT/RIGHT to fight to keep car center.

 

I'd like to hear more from the user Bones to see his take on this.

If I moved my steering wheel inches left or right I'd drive right off the road. The steering is very tight for me and very responsive. If the issue is as severe as people here say it is there should already be documented accidents and a recall issued.

 

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[waldguy]

^^^ totally agree. If it feels like squirrels are driving your car, there is a mechanical problem.

 

I drive a truck with direct mechanical linkage and it's way more prone to wander than my Legacy. It's the best handling family car I've driven.

[quadrangle]

If any of you are making multi-inch corrections left and right to keep your Legacy going straight down the road, and if all you are doing about it is chatting online, you are putting yourself at great risk.

 

Legacies do NOT behave that way. Your car has a serious safety issue, and you should bring your car in for repairs immediately.

[ammcinnis]

If any of you are making multi-inch corrections left and right to keep your Legacy going straight down the road ...

 

... then the problem should be easy for dealer techs to duplicate and confirm.

[quadrangle]

Nobody is "arguing against you". (Well, except for me, right now.)

 

The reality of the Web is that people post all sorts of complaints about products, and some of those things are understated and some are overstated. In many cases, the complaints are not explained well. Often that's due to the fact that some things are just really hard to explain.

 

Once someone starts to complain about a perceived issue, it can attract attention from other people who have similar issues. But many times it's not at all the case that the what initially SEEM to be similar issues are related. But it SOUNDS like lots of people are having the same issue when they really aren't.

 

A case in point: You described a constant left and right steering while driving down a straight road. That sounds pretty serious! Bones described a situation where he lets go of the wheel, waits till the car starts to angle off the road, and finds he has to make a major steering correction to bring the car straight. THAT will happen with any car and is not an issue at all.

 

Clearly, the two of you were talking about totally different scenarios, but because they both involved significant steering corrections, Bones thought that you and he were suffering from the same issue. You obviously are not.

 

No one is trying to "be protective of [their] precious brand". They are just being skeptical of the all-too-common phenomenon on the internet where a small number of owners of some product find they all have a broken one, and jump to the conclusion that (a) they all have the SAME problem and (b)their problem is widespread.

 

The fact that MOST people here DON'T have your problem, and that it's not at all clear that the various people who SEEM to have a problem like yours are really describing the same problem, and that the mechanics at your dealership aren't seeing this issue on a frequent basis (perhaps your the ONLY case?), indicates to a lot of us that your issue...which must suck horribly for you...is not a common one at all.

[apexi]

I'm really thinking that dealers can't replicate the problem, or "fix" the problem because it's due to the road surface you drive on, as I mentioned earlier.

 

Time is money for dealers, but see if you can take a tech or a service advisor for a drive on the road where the problem occurs. If you can't do that, I would find somewhere near the dealership where you can check for yourself, and see that the problem occurs, and let them see/test for themself. If they experience the problem firsthand, and it's as serious as it sounds, I think they're much more likely to bend over backwards trying to help you out.